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Pennyworth round 2
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Started by batman_fan,

43 posts in this topic

batman_fan

batman_fan

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The Batman 71 originally sold on Pedigree I assume to Alfred Pennyworth (I know not his real name).  I can’t remember what it went for but remember it was an insane amount.  Pedigree has done several Uber high grade GA auctions in the past and I would say prices have been typically quite high on stuff.

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JollyComics

JollyComics

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You mean PedigreeComics.com?  Yeah, I bought few books from that auction company and saved me some money too.

I think you forgot about Heritage Buyer's Premium (20%) and Seller's Fee (10%), Batman #41 was sold for $9000 included Buyer's Premium (it was sold for $7500 before added $1500 Buyer's Premium fee) then the seller's fee will be $750 from $7500.  That will leave to $6750 to the seller. It should be $450 loss excluded the expense like the shipping cost.  I sold my book via Heritage once and I realized that I didn't make any profit. Never again with Heritage.

I have noticed PedigreeComics.com sells less books ever since.

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

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2 hours ago, JollyComics said:

You mean PedigreeComics.com?  Yeah, I bought few books from that auction company and saved me some money too.

I think you forgot about Heritage Buyer's Premium (20%) and Seller's Fee (10%), Batman #41 was sold for $9000 included Buyer's Premium (it was sold for $7500 before added $1500 Buyer's Premium fee) then the seller's fee will be $750 from $7500.  That will leave to $6750 to the seller. It should be $450 loss excluded the expense like the shipping cost.  I sold my book via Heritage once and I realized that I didn't make any profit. Never again with Heritage.

I have noticed PedigreeComics.com sells less books ever since.

When you auction a collection like that you don’t pay any seller fees and probably get a piece of the buyer premium too 

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lou_fine

lou_fine

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2 hours ago, JollyComics said:

I think you forgot about Heritage Buyer's Premium (20%) and Seller's Fee (10%), Batman #41 was sold for $9000 included Buyer's Premium (it was sold for $7500 before added $1500 Buyer's Premium fee) then the seller's fee will be $750 from $7500.  That will leave to $6750 to the seller. It should be $450 loss excluded the expense like the shipping cost. 

Not sure how you calculated the $450 loss unless you incorrectly assume the book was first purchased on Pedigree and then unsuccessfully reflipped on Heritage.  ???

In this particular case here, it would appear that the buyer paid $9,000 for the book on Heritage and then flipped it back out on Pedigree for only $7,200.  Not sure what the seller's commission is with respect to Pedigree, but if you assume the standard 10%, this means they would have received only $6,480 for a net loss of $2,520 excluding shipping charges.  doh!   :tonofbricks:

Unless the buyer was Schmell himself in which case the loss would only be the $1,800 since he would have to worry about any SP then.  (shrug)

Interesting to note that Alfred Pennyworth (i.e. Randy Lawrence himself) would appeared to have taken a substantial loss on this copy since it sold for only $9K on Heritage when the description on the Pedigree website states that this copy was sold for $12K back in March of 2016:  :whatthe:  :tonofbricks:

From the awesome Rockford pedigree. This same copy sold for $12,000 in March, 2016! From the Alfred Pennyworth Collection.

Edited by lou_fine
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LonelyPost

LonelyPost

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On 2/19/2021 at 11:51 AM, batman_fan said:

Maybe some people were watching the re-auction of several books from the Alfred Pennyworth collection on Pedigree.  

I did a quick comparison just of the final hammer for both sites and here are the results. Overall not a great flip.

Screen Shot 2021-02-18 at 8.48.44 PM.png

If the above numbers were recalculated without the buyers' premium and assuming that the seller was not charged the 10% commission, the results would be very different. Could also run another scenario, but with with a seller commission of 10%. The results might be interesting. A big congratulations to the new owners who bought those books at pedigree at prices lower than HA - it would be great to know who they are. I was on pedigree site, put 3 bids. Those that were below HA's prices were instantly outbid. The  one I won was one which I bid till it exceeded HA's price. I think my experiment confirmed my theory. Overall, I do not think this was a flip.   

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lou_fine

lou_fine

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20 hours ago, pemart1966 said:
21 hours ago, Silver said:

I wouldn't think Pedigree is the best site to auction those books.

 

Didn't the owner sell a lot of his HG Marvel Silver Age collection...on Heritage???

Yes, that was quite a few years ago and apparently for his own personal collection which he had been building up over the years.  :gossip:

I guess you can spin this either of 2 ways:  hm  (shrug)

1)  He had no confidence in his own auction site to be able to produce top dollar results for his books; or

2)  He didn't want to be accuse of putting himself in a potential conflict of interest situation in terms of improperly running up the prices on his own books, which is something Pedigree has been acuse of doing before in the past.  

 

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RareHighGrade

RareHighGrade

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I'm trying to decipher the code messages here:  Book is listed on Heritage as having been sold for $2000.  Actual sale price is $1000.  Buyer then sells book on (his own?) auction site for $1500.  Instead of being taxed on actual $500 profit, buyer can claim $500 loss.  

What doesn't add up is that, under this scenario, Pennyworth would be taxed based on a higher sale price he didn't actually get.  Why would he agree to that?  I'm obviously missing a piece of the puzzle.  

 

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lou_fine

lou_fine

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Sounds as though we just might need to get an IRS tax expert to deciper all of this hidden code for us here.  lol

So, are we basically saying that all of these apparent record setting prices for the Pennyworth books on HA never actually took place at the price points as listed by Heritage?  ???

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pemart1966

pemart1966

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3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yes, that was quite a few years ago and apparently for his own personal collection which he had been building up over the years.  :gossip:

I guess you can spin this either of 2 ways:  hm  (shrug)

1)  He had no confidence in his own auction site to be able to produce top dollar results for his books; or

2)  He didn't want to be accuse of putting himself in a potential conflict of interest situation in terms of improperly running up the prices on his own books, which is something Pedigree has been acuse of doing before in the past.  

 

I'll go with number 1 Lou.  After all, if you've been accused of it before, what's one more on the ledger?  

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pemart1966

pemart1966

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23 hours ago, batman_fan said:

The Batman 71 originally sold on Pedigree I assume to Alfred Pennyworth (I know not his real name).  I can’t remember what it went for but remember it was an insane amount.  Pedigree has done several Uber high grade GA auctions in the past and I would say prices have been typically quite high on stuff.

According to Lou Fine's post his real name is Randy Lawrence.  In the past, he was listed as the original art contact for Pedigree although his name has not appeared on that site for some time now.  Not too sure what happened with that...

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batman_fan

batman_fan

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3 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

According to Lou Fine's post his real name is Randy Lawrence.  In the past, he was listed as the original art contact for Pedigree although his name has not appeared on that site for some time now.  Not too sure what happened with that...

The plot thickens hm

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RareHighGrade

RareHighGrade

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4 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

According to Lou Fine's post his real name is Randy Lawrence.  In the past, he was listed as the original art contact for Pedigree although his name has not appeared on that site for some time now.  Not too sure what happened with that...

That could be the missing piece of the puzzle, which suggests another scenario than the one I posited above.

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lou_fine

lou_fine

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11 minutes ago, batman_fan said:
15 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

According to Lou Fine's post his real name is Randy Lawrence.  In the past, he was listed as the original art contact for Pedigree although his name has not appeared on that site for some time now.  Not too sure what happened with that...

The plot thickens hm

 

10 minutes ago, RareHighGrade said:

That could be the missing piece of the puzzle, which suggests another scenario than the one I posited above.

Well, the only reason why I came up with Randy Lawrence's name is according to this big write-up on the Alfred Pennyworth Collection from HA:  :gossip:

https://www.ha.com/heritage-auctions-press-releases-and-news/one-of-the-most-storied-and-celebrated-collections-of-batman-comics-heads-to-heritage-auctions-in-november.s?releaseId=4006

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