NFT Ramblings
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183 posts in this topic

I turned around and I was being hit by Non-Fungible Tokens. The first instance was a livestream by Jim Lee earlier this month. Then a plethora of announcements this week from Christies, followed closely by Essential Sequential and Felix Comic Art. 

Most of us are fuddy duddies about the digital art aspect and I get it. But look closely at proof of ownership. This is the essence of what blockchain was supposed to be. I remember when BTC/LTC/ETH etc first ‘flared up’ in the public eye. This is like that, with the fervor and vigor behind it, but also backed by ‘the man’ and ‘the machine’ (both of who were left out of the crypto boom), but more significantly, has a very clear and definitive purpose. Think a grading service, but without the self-interest. 

 

  1. Copies of artwork are already a problem - there’s a whole Kirby thread about this already - so the proof of authenticity and proof of ownership aspect of an NFT for REAL artwork is very tempting. It’s one of the very reasons why some people watermark the artwork they post. Starting now we should really all be doing that. If you haven’t spend a few moments wondering what is stopping a computer from reading a scan of artwork and recreating it, with a brush and ink, then you should. With a little tinkering any motivated home forger could wreck havoc. We’re lucky that our hobby has been quite isolated, but I believe that it’s time to start tightening up the lines of ownership and authenticity. Public sharers may have a bit easier time establishing authenticity, but what about the unknown black holes? Or imagine when you approach an auction house to sell a piece for you, and they politely ask for the corresponding NFT...

 

  1. Digital Art - many of our favorite artists, new AND old are working digitally now. Some finish traditionally but many do not. I know some of these digital artist intentionally produce some pieces traditionally because of the hobby and lucrative money that can be made. As a result, we’ve seen spirited attempts with mono-prints etc. Surely this is better. A clean file, certified forever as the one only true original. Imagine then the other functionality that could be built in. An instant royalty for creator and owner whenever the image is used commercially. Something like that may justify a price that approaches what might be paid for traditional art, because then over time you might make that money back. Or make money on a piece just for owning it. That sounds yummy. 

 

  1. NFT enforcement - with the backing of the establishment this will be easy. Imagine an active google crawler and board of arbitration. Every commercial image is checked for it’s NFT. An image without an NFT can be compared to a database and fined/billed/censored if it is found to be in violation. Or, an artist discovers their work is being used by someone on Etsy in some inappropriate manner, now they would have an avenue of recourse. 

 

  1. Finally, remember, that just as there are people out there who have more money that you, there are also more people out there who have more Crypto than you. Over the past decade people in hiding have amassed immense crypto wealth, and it’s still hard to spend. The crypto millionaire may have trouble buying groceries (well, not really, but kind of), but they love to find value for a place to park/convert their wealth). 27.5 ETH may be a lot to someone who has to buy it from scratch, but there are many people who picked up ETH when it was between $1-$5 ONLY 5 YEARS AGO! That is HODL. Buy $1000 of coin in 2017. Wait 4 years. Celebrate. 

 

In any case I think this is here to stay. So dust off your digital wallets and put on your thinking caps. How will they get you? Dude, they will start giving you a token for free when you buy artwork. We have to figure out how to token the work that already exists, but soon ALL the new artwork will have one. 

 

Discuss, be happy! I look forward to seeing what Felix and Jason talk about on Tuesday. 

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As with any market, glut of supply will lead to stabilization.  It was novel when Mr. Delbo was the first among old school comic artists to enter... I remember connecting him and his grandson (a buddy) with one of the major cryptoart platforms.  In hindsight, though, all of this was inevitable.  Elon eat yer heart out.

Now that the bandwagon is filling up, I expect values will conform to the existing pecking order in the physical art world, though there's an opportunity for up-and-coming artists to blow away buyers in the space through sheer skill and leapfrog it.

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2 hours ago, Brian Peck said:

And Delbo used a copyrighted character for the NFT that was part of a group that sold for $200K. This is basically digital art Stockmarket when it comes to NFT artwork. People buy and sell on speculation, values fluctuate not because of how a company or entity is doing but by the image itself. Since they took the Batman image tied it to a token to create a new entity the NFT. I can see DC noticing the NFTs using their intellectual property and how much they are going for and sueing the artists who created them. YEs DC and Marvel look the other way on con drawings and limited prints but they do not usually sell for 6 figures≥

I see this as the 21st century beanie baby and will eventually disappear. Owning a piece of nothing, not even air molecules, just ones and zeros, something to hang your name on even though it didn't exist. You do not get right to publish it. I think its a scam, a big con game on the very gullible.

 

I too was and still am a skeptic (to an extent), but our opinions don't matter now or in the long run. Elon's does.

Also, fwiw, tons of modern galleries display so many $$$ works that appropriate Marvel/DC imagery seemingly without consequence.  

Edit: One thing -- NFT art can be and is widely displayed in virtual worlds.  Such are the perks of digital ownership.  I suggest reading up on the whole phenomenon for those who'd critique it.  

Now I'm gonna get back to what I love... the old-fashioned stuff.  }:-)

Edited by exitmusicblue
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17 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

One thing -- NFT art can be and is widely displayed in virtual worlds.

Oh frag. Of course. Now I'm sold.

And here I went and invested everything in all these darned physical walls in this physical world too.

All to hang physical art :pullhair:

 

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18 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

Edit: One thing -- NFT art can be and is widely displayed in virtual worlds.  Such are the perks of digital ownership.  I suggest reading up on the whole phenomenon for those who'd critique it.  

Now I'm gonna get back to what I love... the old-fashioned stuff.  }:-)

So in essence, the Oasis in "Ready Player One."

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People are already getting scammed with NFT, big surprise. When one piece is called "NFT m o r o n s." you would think that is a red flag but no.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/nft-market-top-signal-fake-banksy-nets-over-1-million-in-eth-sales

(for some reason CGC will not let me post m o r o n s without spaces.)

Edited by Brian Peck
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15 hours ago, vodou said:

Oh frag. Of course. Now I'm sold.

And here I went and invested everything in all these darned physical walls in this physical world too.

All to hang physical art :pullhair:

 

You need more shrooms.

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On 2/19/2021 at 5:26 PM, dichotomy said:

Copies of artwork are already a problem - there’s a whole Kirby thread about this already - so the proof of authenticity and proof of ownership aspect of an NFT for REAL artwork is very tempting. It’s one of the very reasons why some people watermark the artwork they post.

Those watermarks are relatively easy to remove.

For the same reason, I don't see that NFT will be useful for preventing copying.  It's all based on adding some metadata to a scan of the physical image.  Someone can remove that metadata from the scan, or just make another scan, or do what forgers actually do: print out an image, blow it up, and trace a forged copy.

I guess if you want to demonstrate provenance for selling (as opposed to detecting illegal copying), it provides an iron-clad chain of ownership back to the first time it's recorded in the blockchain.  In a public ledger of transactions.  No more "private sales."  :insane:

And the lawyers can always argue over whether this physical copy is actually represented by that digital copy.

 

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2 hours ago, Taylor G said:

Those watermarks are relatively easy to remove.

For the same reason, I don't see that NFT will be useful for preventing copying.  It's all based on adding some metadata to a scan of the physical image.  Someone can remove that metadata from the scan, or just make another scan, or do what forgers actually do: print out an image, blow it up, and trace a forged copy.

I guess if you want to demonstrate provenance for selling (as opposed to detecting illegal copying), it provides an iron-clad chain of ownership back to the first time it's recorded in the blockchain.  In a public ledger of transactions.  No more "private sales."  :insane:

And the lawyers can always argue over whether this physical copy is actually represented by that digital copy.

 

Just wait until production nft's start showing up on ebay... 

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3 hours ago, Taylor G said:

In a public ledger of transactions.  No more "private sales."

Right. That's where my earlier comment checks in.

Physical money will be eliminated*, sooner than you would think too.

Next: all transactions occur 'on the ledger' eliminating any/all underground economy activity that is/was 'off the ledger'.

Add to that that many non-commodity goods and services will already be 'on the ledger' and you have the most perfect system of control ever.

Enjoy techno-dorks.

 

*Does anybody truly think the Central Banks will legally allow competing cryptos to their own? Right. Think again. And watch BTC ETH et al drop to zero instantly. Talk about disruptive!

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lollol I guarantee you the crypto folks are quivering in fear due to the CBs (not). Ask the govs how they've done in their attempts to kill Pirate Bay and BitTorrent, that venerable 2nd gen. peer-to-peer network.  Hint: both are still widely used, and BitTorrent's founder (an acquaintance) is gamely working on a blockchain project these days.

Libra was easy to manhandle by threatening FB, a single point of attack.  Centralized crypto exchanges are already scoffed at by non-noobs in the space for their fees and hackability.  There are many, many ways around them. The ship has sailed.

Edited by exitmusicblue
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2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said:

lollol I guarantee you the crypto folks are quivering in fear due to the CBs (not).

You're toast and don't even know it :) 

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