Eniac, how do we feel about this methodology? 1 1

[carter3175]

I am definitely going to buy a few if I can find them.    I will try and support if I can.

[FormerReader]

8 hours ago, NWOslave said:

they know with these stores they have a built in audience of previous Valiant readers that LOVE Dinesh. I know thats my reason for it and the talent they have got on board for their initial books. 

Anyone who was a Valiant fan during Dinesh’s time at the company knows how good he and Valiant were to fans.  That and the talent means I will support Bad Idea through a lot. I’m not going to chase any of the exclusive books, but I will purchase every book they put out on a monthly basis. I believe Dinesh has earned that loyalty. 

[Lurker89]

On 2/23/2021 at 3:23 PM, NWOslave said:

define market manipulation and how they profit from it?

I think it's pretty simple. Releasing the "not first print" at the same time (both having a release date of 3/3/21) as the first print feels like a gimmick and an intentional mechanism to drive the value of the very limited first print up.

It seems people had to have quite the foresight to be able to get a first print. A foresight most of the general public was not privy too unless they really had an ear to the ground.

At the end of the day maybe they just had a good ground game and hyped the book well and sold out quick if so more power to them. Either way, I'd like to know what the initial print run for the first print is and how quickly they sold out from the time they became available. You can say they are protecting themselves but I think the fact that the "not first printings" are in good supply and readily available does not jive with that line of thinking.

If the writing and art is good the book will stand its own merits, no matter the perceived issues with it's release.

The fact that you feel the need to "White Knight" so hard for Bad Idea or throw terms like Libel at Ygog for voicing an opinion on the boards is a little odd, Especially considering most of us are just irritated we couldn't get a first print two months out from release.

You don't need to defend them so vigorously from a few dudes on the internet who wanted to buy the first  print of their book.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

Bad Idea deliberately ignored preorders or deliberately under printed and then they deliberately decided to supplement preorders with additional printings at the same time. They put tongue in cheek expectations on LCS in order to appear reader and fan friendly when in fact they are just trying to manufacture Pre-Unity Valiant hype.

Hard pass. 

[NWOslave]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:15 PM, Lurker89 said:

I think it's pretty simple. Releasing the "not first print" at the same time (both having a release date of 3/3/21) as the first print feels like a gimmick and an intentional mechanism to drive the value of the very limited first print up.

It seems people had to have quite the foresight to be able to get a first print. A foresight most of the general public was not privy too unless they really had an ear to the ground.

At the end of the day maybe they just had a good ground game and hyped the book well and sold out quick if so more power to them. Either way, I'd like to know what the initial print run for the first print is and how quickly they sold out from the time they became available. You can say they are protecting themselves but I think the fact that the "not first printings" are in good supply and readily available does not jive with that line of thinking.

If the writing and art is good the book will stand its own merits, no matter the perceived issues with it's release.

The fact that you feel the need to "White Knight" so hard for Bad Idea or throw terms like Libel at Ygog for voicing an opinion on the boards is a little odd, Especially considering most of us are just irritated we couldn't get a first print two months out from release.

You don't need to defend them so vigorously from a few dudes on the internet who wanted to buy the first  print of their book.

you obviously dont know the meaning of market manipulation or white knight. i just provided a different point of view which you obviously are not interested in. there were plenty of stores that could have been contacted that you could have ordered from, stop your crying. you knew months in advance had you been paying attention how this was going to work. sorry not sorry they couldnt deliver it the way you are accustomed to. work harder next time. 

 

 

[awakeintheashes]

11 minutes ago, NWOslave said:

you obviously dont know the meaning of market manipulation or white knight. i just provided a different point of view which you obviously are not interested in. there were plenty of stores that could have been contacted that you could have ordered from, stop your crying. you knew months in advance had you been paying attention how this was going to work. sorry not sorry they couldnt deliver it the way you are accustomed to. work harder next time. 

 

 

The only problem with this is for folks who signed up with a local shop through the Bad Idea site, and found out weeks before release that the shop was not getting any copies of Eniac #1. By the time Bad Idea sent the email to check with the shop if they have your name, it was too late in most cases. The shop in my area is not my LCS, so there was no weekly interaction like there would be had it been my LCS.

Good on anyone who got a first print, or even a not-first-print, but the headache to track down a copy to read is not worth the escape it provides. For the company's financial health, I hope my sentiment isn't shared by others. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by awakeintheashes

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, oldmilwaukee6er said:

Bad Idea deliberately ignored preorders or deliberately under printed and then they deliberately decided to supplement preorders with additional printings at the same time. They put tongue in cheek expectations on LCS in order to appear reader and fan friendly when in fact they are just trying to manufacture Pre-Unity Valiant hype.

Hard pass. 

Marvel or DC has done this recently. I don't recall what book it was for.

Either way, I don't understand the logic of a 1st and 2nd print releasing on the same day. If the book has not been released why would you not print more to meet the initial demand?

[Lurker89]

1 hour ago, NWOslave said:

you obviously dont know the meaning of market manipulation or white knight. i just provided a different point of view which you obviously are not interested in. there were plenty of stores that could have been contacted that you could have ordered from, stop your crying. you knew months in advance had you been paying attention how this was going to work. sorry not sorry they couldnt deliver it the way you are accustomed to. work harder next time. 

 

 

Quite defensive.... And seemingly the only one who feels the way you do.

Once again First Print and Not First Print come out the same day. The Not First Print  is still readily available, So they obviously weren't worried about printing too much and protecting themselves. But hey whatever guy, you love them good for you ...

You want to take on all comers to defend something you say you have no attachment to other than being a fan and  providing a different viewpoint. Yet while doing so you're being overly adversarial to other peoples viewpoints coming off like an *** . Cool that should bring people to your line of thinking.

Too put it simply if I could manipulate the market I would do.  So I don't really care if they are, it's foolish to not try to make your own assets more valuable. It when it's done blatantly on a product that people feel like they are being taken for a ride. For you to sit there and act like "this is not that" is intellectually disingenuous. I asked how everyone else was viewing this to see if they saw it how I did and how it affected their view of Bad Idea. You being a fan of them has affected my point of view on them more than their actions. 

If you are trying to paint bad Idea in a better light to people who don't necessarily like this "perceived manipulation" maybe don't be so contentious and just so you don't seem so daft in the future:

White Knighting: can also more generally refer to someone who rushes to the defense of another online, usually a person whose actions aren't seen as worthy of defense.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Lurker89
Typo

[Lurker89]

Side note: I'm not interested in working harder to spec modern books from your shady new publisher friends. I'll just continue collecting silver and bronze.

This thread is becoming too much fun.

Hey I said they were shady is that Libel as well?

[Lurker89]

47 minutes ago, NWOslave said:

sorry not sorry they couldnt deliver it the way you are accustomed to.

"Sorry not sorry"

Sorry I shouldn't have said mean things to you or about your friends at Bad Idea I didn't realize you were a 12 year old girl.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Lurker89
Typo

[Lurker89]

31 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Either way, I don't understand the logic of a 1st and 2nd print releasing on the same day. If the book has not been released why would you not print more to meet the initial demand?

Well obviously not to drive the value of your so called first print up.

 

[valiantman]

One thing to add to the discussion is that Bad Idea probably had a fixed number in mind for first prints for all the reasons listed, marketing, hype, secondary value, etc., but that was their plan and they stuck with it.

Because the initial orders exceeded their (most likely self-imposed) limit of first prints, they created "not a first print" to meet the initial demand, yes, but ALSO to meet future demand.

While there are copies of "Not a first print" available on the same day as first prints, there will be "Not a first print" copies available... forever.  Unless they do something to differentiate them, a year from now you'll still be able to order "Not a first print" of Eniac #1 and it is supposed to be identical to the copies sold yesterday.

Anyone overpaying for "Not a first print" is probably not aware of that fact, or they're betting that something is different and it will be possible to identify "first day Not a first print" separate from "a year later" or "five years later" Not a first print.

[shadroch]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:53 PM, shadroch said:

I first became aware of Bad Idea this week, and I don't understand their marketing.  Nothing I've read about them or their books has piqued my interest. 

I still don't get it.

[Lurker89]

4 minutes ago, valiantman said:

One thing to add to the discussion is that Bad Idea probably had a fixed number in mind for first prints for all the reasons listed, marketing, hype, secondary value, etc., but that was their plan and they stuck with it.

I could see this.

My question is what was the print run and how long after pre-order was available did they sell out. 

If your premise is true then by sticking to that number they are trying to make the FP as exclusive as possible which is there prerogative and totally fine.

To make the non-exclusive NFP available the same day is definitely going to shape some public opinion on them which is evident by my and others view on this method of release. They could have waited to drop the NFP two weeks and it wouldn't be perceived in the same way. Putting the two books out the same day was not a prudent PR move in my opinion.

As I said in my above post:

"If the writing and art is good the book will stand its own merits, no matter the perceived issues with it's release."

"At the end of the day maybe they just had a good ground game and hyped the book well and sold out quick if so more power to them. Either way, I'd like to know what the initial print run for the first print is and how quickly they sold out from the time they became available. You can say they are protecting themselves but I think the fact that the "not first printings" are in good supply and readily available does not jive with that line of thinking."

[valiantman]

Right - I don't have any insider knowledge on Bad Idea, but from an outsider perspective (and from a fan/collector perspective) the ONLY independent comics from the past 40 years that hold their value seem to be limited first printings like Albedo #2, TMNT #1, Primer #2, Crow #1, Bone #1, Walking Dead #1, and for every "moderate print run" which does have a strong value like Saga #1, you've got Youngblood #1 which printed to demand and 30 years later, there's no demand.

Playing the "variant game" is what most publishers are doing - ratio books - making the regular editions worthless in order to satisfy 1:25 or 1:100 buyers, which literally satisfies 1% to 4% of the people holding the book, unless there are extras printed, which makes those 1% to 4% variant holders angry that they don't have as rare of a book as they thought.

So, what can you do --- if you're NOT going to play the variant game for ratio books --- which is what Bad Idea has said?

You have to go back to the TMNT #1 or Bone #1 model - where you print a limited number of 1st prints - and if you see enough demand, you go to a 2nd print, but instead of keeping up the 3rd, 4th, 5th, print scenarios, you just keep the "Not a first print" in print as long as there's demand.

Raising the print run of the 1st prints completely changes the fan/collector/market perspective - and you have to ask yourself (as a publisher) whether you're hoping to be an immediate hit like Youngblood or a long-term hit like Albedo.  I wouldn't choose the Youngblood model unless I was in publishing to "get in, make bank quick, and get out".  Everything that I've seen from Bad Idea says they are pretty much doing the opposite of the 1990s Image hype-machine over-production model.  The hype-machine might be humming, but even their biggest supporters got rationed on 1st prints, so unlike Youngblood (and all the similar titles of the day) these 1st print books might have a future in the secondary market.

No matter what happens, when you name your company "Bad Idea" you either live up to your name or you exceed expectations.  That's sort of a "win-win" even if everything you do is labeled a "Bad Idea".

 

[Broke as a Joke]

All this talk and nobody at all commenting on the actual contents of the book.  . How was the story, the art, does it engage you?

Seems that it doesn't matter to most people buying this, and it sure doesn't show confidence by the publisher when you limit your potential readers purposely.

[ygogolak]

26 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Right - I don't have any insider knowledge on Bad Idea, but from an outsider perspective (and from a fan/collector perspective) the ONLY independent comics from the past 40 years that hold their value seem to be limited first printings like Albedo #2, TMNT #1, Primer #2, Crow #1, Bone #1, Walking Dead #1, and for every "moderate print run" which does have a strong value like Saga #1, you've got Youngblood #1 which printed to demand and 30 years later, there's no demand.

Playing the "variant game" is what most publishers are doing - ratio books - making the regular editions worthless in order to satisfy 1:25 or 1:100 buyers, which literally satisfies 1% to 4% of the people holding the book, unless there are extras printed, which makes those 1% to 4% variant holders angry that they don't have as rare of a book as they thought.

So, what can you do --- if you're NOT going to play the variant game for ratio books --- which is what Bad Idea has said?

You have to go back to the TMNT #1 or Bone #1 model - where you print a limited number of 1st prints - and if you see enough demand, you go to a 2nd print, but instead of keeping up the 3rd, 4th, 5th, print scenarios, you just keep the "Not a first print" in print as long as there's demand.

Raising the print run of the 1st prints completely changes the fan/collector/market perspective - and you have to ask yourself (as a publisher) whether you're hoping to be an immediate hit like Youngblood or a long-term hit like Albedo.  I wouldn't choose the Youngblood model unless I was in publishing to "get in, make bank quick, and get out".  Everything that I've seen from Bad Idea says they are pretty much doing the opposite of the 1990s Image hype-machine over-production model.  The hype-machine might be humming, but even their biggest supporters got rationed on 1st prints, so unlike Youngblood (and all the similar titles of the day) these 1st print books might have a future in the secondary market.

No matter what happens, when you name your company "Bad Idea" you either live up to your name or you exceed expectations.  That's sort of a "win-win" even if everything you do is labeled a "Bad Idea".

 

 

Boom recently did this with a subsequent printing of Once & Future #1. Not the first print though.

[Lurker89]

11 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

All this talk and nobody at all commenting on the actual contents of the book.  . How was the story, the art, does it engage you?

 

1 hour ago, Lurker89 said:

"If the writing and art is good the book will stand its own merits, no matter the perceived issues with it's release."

 

I mentioned it in passing 

 

Side note I was thinking about picking up a couple copies of  "You Promised Me Darkness". I read the preview wasn't impressed with the writing and now don't think I'll buy. Anyone think I should reconsider?

[valiantman]

15 minutes ago, Broke as a Joke said:

All this talk and nobody at all commenting on the actual contents of the book.  . How was the story, the art, does it engage you?

Seems that it doesn't matter to most people buying this, and it sure doesn't show confidence by the publisher when you limit your potential readers purposely.

Does anyone even have a copy to read at this point? 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

7 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Does anyone even have a copy to read at this point? 

I do. But I'm waiting to get a "Not a first print" to read, so I can keep the first print in the same condition as it was when I got it. (And also I haven't even had time to read it since I got it.) The creative team involved never disappointed me at Valiant so I'm sure I won't be disappointed.