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Ebay offensive material policy - Just the beginning of censorship, already happening? Whats the scoop?
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631 posts in this topic

...makes you wonder how long before you won't be able to sell WWII comics featuring Hitler or other Nazi imagery, or covers featuring 'grotesque' caricatures of Asians or Blacks on eBay?

Or shudder pulps with 'Women in peril' covers? 

Or when they stop airing a good portion of 1940's Looney Tunes (gasp!) and Tom and Jerry shorts? Masterpieces, but brilliantly realized cartoon violence segments throughout many of the better ones. :ohnoez:

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, sagii said:

...makes you wonder how long before you won't be able to sell WWII comics featuring Hitler or other Nazi imagery, or covers featuring 'grotesque' caricatures of Asians or Blacks on eBay?

Or shudder pulps with 'Women in peril' covers? 

Or when they stop airing a good portion of 1940's Looney Tunes (gasp!) and Tom and Jerry shorts? Masterpieces, but brilliantly realized cartoon violence segments throughout many of the better ones. :ohnoez:

 

 

 

 

I keep a open mind on things but I have no confidence on the cancel culture path we are taking, I am ok but I fear for my granchildren 

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I do think Mr Potato Head can be harmful. He certainly hurt me as a child! I remember trying to stick those things into a real potato and stabbing myself repeatedly. A small child with poorly tuned fine motor skills sticking nails into a potato, what could go wrong?

The original set cost $0.98, and included toy hands, feet, ears, two mouths, two pairs of eyes, four noses, three hats, eyeglasses, a pipe, and eight felt pieces resembling facial hair. The original kit included no potato "body", relying on parents to provide a potato, into which children could stick the different pieces. Shortly after the toy's initial release, an order form for 50 additional pieces was enclosed in every kit.[2]

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This topic makes me think.

Back in the day, 1970s NYC, channel 11 late at night (I think it was saturdays but could have been fridays) showed a double header, Charlie Chan (Warner Oland) and Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone). Every week you got one movie from each series and I think they may have switched the order every week (Chan then Homes, next week Holmes then Chan). I loved watching those every week. When I had kids and we would look for family movies I went to find the Chan movies...nope...all gone. (I just looked and you can now see them it seems, but the point remains and they remain controversial.) My father always called my older brother "number one son" after the movies characters. It was a nice nostalgic memory. But my kids are not deprived because they never saw the Chan movies, they had many other entertainment vehicles to be entranced by and we made new memories.

And now you can see the Chan films again. The pendulum has swung again. I just checked and they are on prime. I may watch one tonight. The rathbone Holmes movies still stand up for me so hopefully these will at well.

The world continues to improve in most every way. Less poverty. Less dictators. Less hungry. Less uneducated. Less restrictions on women's rights. Our grandchildren will not only be fine they will excel and surpass us. The culture will continue to grow and breath and, yes, expand. Some things will be lost and forgotten, many rightfully so because time marches on.

 

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Today I read a Dr Suess article from a NY Times author about how Pepe Le Pew adds to Rape culture.

I'm thinking to myself Dr Wertham and Tipper Gore would be proud.

looney-tunes-comic-153-pepe-le-pew_1_6ca1089ddc4ac599499db162b17ad8ab.jpg

Edited by Rip
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1 hour ago, Rip said:

Today I read a Dr Suess article from a NY Times author about how Pepe Le Pew adds to Rape culture.

I'm thinking to myself Dr Wertham and Tipper Gore would be proud.

looney-tunes-comic-153-pepe-le-pew_1_6ca1089ddc4ac599499db162b17ad8ab.jpg

I believe it. I could see a Dave Chappelle bit pass as a source these days on whatever “rape culture” is per the NYTimes. 

Edited by snitzer
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42 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Have you ever watched a Pepe La Pew cartoon? Even as a kid in the 70s I realized how wrong this cartoon was. The plot was basically a skunk tries to rape a cat :sick:

Does Roadrunner and Wiley Coyote then also reinforce a stalking and murder-culture? 

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46 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

Have you ever watched a Pepe La Pew cartoon? Even as a kid in the 70s I realized how wrong this cartoon was. The plot was basically a skunk tries to rape a cat :sick:

I was always put off when the Clint Eastwood movies would have their obligatory rape scene. It happened in every one of the spaghetti westerns and then on to The Gauntlet as well. Sometimes Clint was feeling a bit rapey and sometimes he was the protector, but it was there every time.

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Ever read Seduction of the Innocent by Dr. Wertham?

Ever listen to the PMRC Senate Hearings in the 80's with Tipper/ Al Gore any others?

Ever watch debates with David Walsh regarding Grand Theft Auto and its influence among kids?

I would especially watch some of the PMRC Senate heatings. There's a lot of overlapping terrritory here.

A few interviews to watch Dee Synder, John Denver, and Frank Zappa

Best

 

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3 hours ago, Bird said:

This topic makes me think.

Back in the day, 1970s NYC, channel 11 late at night (I think it was saturdays but could have been fridays) showed a double header, Charlie Chan (Warner Oland) and Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone). Every week you got one movie from each series and I think they may have switched the order every week (Chan then Homes, next week Holmes then Chan). I loved watching those every week. When I had kids and we would look for family movies I went to find the Chan movies...nope...all gone. (I just looked and you can now see them it seems, but the point remains and they remain controversial.) My father always called my older brother "number one son" after the movies characters. It was a nice nostalgic memory. But my kids are not deprived because they never saw the Chan movies, they had many other entertainment vehicles to be entranced by and we made new memories.

And now you can see the Chan films again. The pendulum has swung again. I just checked and they are on prime. I may watch one tonight. The rathbone Holmes movies still stand up for me so hopefully these will at well.

The world continues to improve in most every way. Less poverty. Less dictators. Less hungry. Less uneducated. Less restrictions on women's rights. Our grandchildren will not only be fine they will excel and surpass us. The culture will continue to grow and breath and, yes, expand. Some things will be lost and forgotten, many rightfully so because time marches on.

 

Charlie Chan was a weird one in that you had a white guy playing the character, so that's a problem (he claimed he might have had some asian ancestors, which was unverified), but to be expected in that era, and they do all the stereo types and everything, but he's a genius at solving crime, and at least his whole family is played by actual asian actors (I think). He did 16 of these movies in about 6 years before he died prematurely. And he was in 14 other movies during the same period! Movie studios knew how the crank out movies back then! None of this 2 years to make a movie nonsense.

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23 minutes ago, Bird said:

I was always put off when the Clint Eastwood movies would have their obligatory rape scene. It happened in every one of the spaghetti westerns and then on to The Gauntlet as well. Sometimes Clint was feeling a bit rapey and sometimes he was the protector, but it was there every time.

when was clint rapey? maybe not a gentleman, sure.

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6 minutes ago, Rip said:

Ever read Seduction of the Innocent by Dr. Wertham?

Ever listen to the PMRC Senate Hearings in the 80's with Tipper/ Al Gore any others?

Ever watch debates with David Walsh regarding Grand Theft Auto and its influence among kids?

I would especially watch some of the PMRC Senate heatings. There's a lot of overlapping terrritory here.

A few interviews to watch Dee Synder, John Denver, and Frank Zappa

Best

 

I am not sure what the point you are making is. Yes, those are obvious examples of overreach but there is a tremendous body of research about witnessing aggression and how it impacts children. So if the point is we have to be judicious I agree. But it is even more clear that children can be harmed (ie their happiness negatively impacted, behavior altered to be overly violent and aggressive, etc) through the viewing of violent and/or age-inappropriate material. We just all need to talk about why these things upset some and why people saying they are wrong also upsets some.

I have an 18 year old, my youngest, and I recently told her no more CSI. She has been watching that too much and I can tell it has been affecting her. I didn't forbid it but we had a talk and I have noticed no more CSI on her phone and she has been rewatching some sitcoms that she enjoys. The only thing I ever forbid them from watching is the show Catfish, again just ugliness there. But what kids watch, what we all watch, does impact us and there should be some attention to how images and show impact us.

 

21 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Does Roadrunner and Wiley Coyote then also reinforce a stalking and murder-culture? 

of course not. The message there that one takes away, intentional or not, is that being smart, being quick and being aware can protect you from people trying to harm you. Who would you identify with in roadrunner and coyote? no one sees themselves as the coyote I don't think. If my kids play roadrunner and coyote I might worry about something falling on someone though. :bigsmile:

but pepe gets iffy real quick!

And I loved Pepe and I loved the cute cat he chases. But if my kids were in pre-K and a boy is chasing around a girl and saying "come here my little cat" I would likely get involved.

 

I have spent a few days arguing with my wife and kids about cuomo and carano and that neither should lose their jobs but they can make compelling cases why both should indeed lose their jobs. (shrug) There is no obviously correct answer to me

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17 minutes ago, the blob said:

when was clint rapey? maybe not a gentleman, sure.

Off the top of my head I offer the one where they paint the town red and put the sign up saying "hell"...the hotel owners wife becomes part of his bargain against her will. he drags her into his room against her will as her husband and the other men look on as a sign of strength I guess.

 

edit: I had it a bit wrong. The scene I am describing above is consensual, he raped that woman earlier in the film. Then he rapes again later, a different woman. It is High Plains Drifter, which isn't a spaghetti western as I said either

Edited by Bird
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3 hours ago, Bird said:

I am not sure what the point you are making is. Yes, those are obvious examples of overreach but there is a tremendous body of research about witnessing aggression and how it impacts children. So if the point is we have to be judicious I agree. But it is even more clear that children can be harmed (ie their happiness negatively impacted, behavior altered to be overly violent and aggressive, etc) through the viewing of violent and/or age-inappropriate material. We just all need to talk about why these things upset some and why people saying they are wrong also upsets some.

I have an 18 year old, my youngest, and I recently told her no more CSI. She has been watching that too much and I can tell it has been affecting her. I didn't forbid it but we had a talk and I have noticed no more CSI on her phone and she has been rewatching some sitcoms that she enjoys. The only thing I ever forbid them from watching is the show Catfish, again just ugliness there. But what kids watch, what we all watch, does impact us and there should be some attention to how images and show impact us.

 

of course not. The message there that one takes away, intentional or not, is that being smart, being quick and being aware can protect you from people trying to harm you. Who would you identify with in roadrunner and coyote? no one sees themselves as the coyote I don't think. If my kids play roadrunner and coyote I might worry about something falling on someone though. :bigsmile:

but pepe gets iffy real quick!

And I loved Pepe and I loved the cute cat he chases. But if my kids were in pre-K and a boy is chasing around a girl and saying "come here my little cat" I would likely get involved.

 

I have spent a few days arguing with my wife and kids about cuomo and carano and that neither should lose their jobs but they can make compelling cases why both should indeed lose their jobs. (shrug) There is no obviously correct answer to me

Hi BIrd, point being we've had different times of historical censorship over the years to "saveguard others". A couple famous highlights were during the 50's with comic books and during the 80's with music and horror movies.

I think it would be beneficial if people watched some of the previous debates. There is an age old debate of what you watch.... will MAKE you a (insert term here). Also reminds me of the famous killer that used Halloween II as an excuse for killing someone.

Whether its horror movies, Rock n Rock, or video games its a long standing argument. One thats well worn and worth reading about if we are to move forward.

 

Best

(And to the mods, if I've gotten to political kindly let me know and I'll remove my posts) 

Edited by Rip
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@Rip I remember being in middle school and being SO impressed by Snider a partner and I did an oral presentation on censorship and used his time speaking as a visual aid,got great marks too.(ah the bolted down tube tv and vhs)

What I really remember about being a kid and being told that something was a no no was that we made damn sure we found whatever it was and revelled in it.

We had Cannibal Corpse and Mentors songs memorized just to be lil turdisturbers.It's like pointing a big spotlight on something wonderful,saying this isn't for you-and don't you dare think of it when my back is turned.Magnet

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1 minute ago, Rip said:

Hi BIrd, point being we've had different times of historical censorship over the years to "saveguard others". A couple famous highlights were during the 50's with comic books and during the 80's with music and horror movies.

I think it would be beneficial if people watched some of the previous debates. There is an age old debate of what you watch makes will MAKE you a (insert term here). Also reminds me of the famous killer that used Halloween II as an excuse for killing someone.

Whether its horror movies, Rock n Rock, or video games its a long standing argument. One thats well worn and worth reading about if we are to move forward.

 

Best

 

fair enough

Yes I have seen the PMRC and lived through it (big Frank fan and was very interested at the time) and of course know Wertham. Like I said, all overreach (I don't know the 3rd you mentioned, no use for GTA, but used to play Soldier of Fortune the first one I think around 1999 and stopped because it was affecting me, dreams and stuff).

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and I want to say one more thing we haven't really mentioned or acknowledged...the good ol'USA makes this discussion possible. We do have laws against restricting freedom of speech and those laws are applicable to a wide range of activities and well enforced and generally accepted on a bipartisan basis. Hate speech is protected speech but it comes with risks, like having an employer sever their ties with you and that is generally legal in the USA as well if the case can be made that it impacts how the company is perceived via association with the hate speaker (and not a proven case, I think it is fairly loose). So rights can be...in conflict at times.

this started about ebay... a private company...their reasons are unknown to me, could be political pressure, could be genuine concern or could be monetary. Likely a bit of all that mixed up together so hard to get to a resolution of opinion

and then we have the seuss people, ceasing publication of 6 books pretty far down on the sales list. Again motivations unknown. And they have ceased publishing on other titles in the past only to go back and publish again apparently. (I saw today that Sally never says a word in Cat in the Hat...can that be true?) but should they HAVE to continue publishing something they don't want to? I don't see the outrage myself. 

I also learned today that they changed the oompa loompas in 1973 from African pygmies to people from loompa land or something. I think that is silly and just worsens it in every way...not a clean change really (they are still essentially slaves, or slave labor at best) so why do it? That type of try to please everyone and please no one approach is ill conceived. I read the pre-1973 versions as a child, read great glass elevator repeatedly. So I appreciate the seuss people for going all in I guess, as removing the pages in question would be a horrible solution too.

 

I left out my point, that in the USA we have ways to challenge true restriction of speech and that these examples we see in the news are not true restrictions but they are cast as restrictions to rile people up. If they are true suppression of speech their is recourse, and then compensation, through the courts.

Edited by Bird
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