Ebay offensive material policy - Just the beginning of censorship, already happening? Whats the scoop? 3 3

[pemart1966]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:26 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

When I spoke to them in December on the phone they kept referencing the policy that says anything that has a swastika produced after 1933 is banned from their marketplace.

 

Have they published their exhaustive list of "terrorist organizations"?

[pemart1966]

2 hours ago, Bird said:

and I want to say one more thing we haven't really mentioned or acknowledged...the good ol'USA makes this discussion possible. We do have laws against restricting freedom of speech and those laws are applicable to a wide range of activities and well enforced and generally accepted on a bipartisan basis. Hate speech is protected speech but it comes with risks, like having an employer sever their ties with you and that is generally legal in the USA as well if the case can be made that it impacts how the company is perceived via association with the hate speaker (and not a proven case, I think it is fairly loose). So rights can be...in conflict at times.

this started about ebay... a private company...their reasons are unknown to me, could be political pressure, could be genuine concern or could be monetary. Likely a bit of all that mixed up together so hard to get to a resolution of opinion

and then we have the seuss people, ceasing publication of 6 books pretty far down on the sales list. Again motivations unknown. And they have ceased publishing on other titles in the past only to go back and publish again apparently. (I saw today that Sally never says a word in Cat in the Hat...can that be true?) but should they HAVE to continue publishing something they don't want to? I don't see the outrage myself. 

I also learned today that they changed the oompa loompas in 1973 from African pygmies to people from loompa land or something. I think that is silly and just worsens it in every way...not a clean change really (they are still essentially slaves, or slave labor at best) so why do it? That type of try to please everyone and please no one approach is ill conceived. I read the pre-1973 versions as a child, read great glass elevator repeatedly. So I appreciate the seuss people for going all in I guess, as removing the pages in question would be a horrible solution too.

 

I left out my point, that in the USA we have ways to challenge true restriction of speech and that these examples we see in the news are not true restrictions but they are cast as restrictions to rile people up. If they are true suppression of speech their is recourse, and then compensation, through the courts.

Motivations were/are indeed known as to why Seuss Enterprises stopped publishing those 6 books:

“These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong,” Dr. Seuss Enterprises said in the statement. The business said the decision came after working with a panel of experts, including educators, and reviewing its catalog of titles."

For the record, I'm presenting the above as a statement of fact only.

[Bird]

13 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

Motivations were/are indeed known as to why Seuss Enterprises stopped publishing those 6 books:

“These books portray people in ways that are hurtful and wrong,” Dr. Seuss Enterprises said in the statement. The business said the decision came after working with a panel of experts, including educators, and reviewing its catalog of titles."

For the record, I'm presenting the above as a statement of fact only.

Yes you clearly are correct and that’s their statement. I guess I was just a little more cynical since they were all low selling titles that maybe there was more to it I hope that their motives were pure but I don’t especially trust the company to accurately share the process that went on but again I hope that it is purely empathetic

Edited March 7, 2021 by Bird

[ttfitz]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:22 AM, Robot Man said:

I bought my 5 year old granddaughter a bunch of Dr Suess books for Christmas including Zoo. She loves them. Am a bad grandpa? Should I point out the “offensive” parts then try to explain them to her? I don’t think so. She is being raised to believe all people are equal and not to be treated any different. If we could all retain those wonderful childlike qualities the world would be such a great place..,

And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street is probably my favorite Suess book, and frankly one of my favorite books, period. When I first saw these stories, I thought, "Gee, what's offensive in that?" But when I read a more involved story that mentioned the stereotypical Asian depiction, it popped clearly in my head and I thought, "Oh, yeah, that's not good."

[ttfitz]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:43 PM, Number 6 said:

I’ve seen all of them moving in transit here at the library....which means they’re all about to suddenly get “lost”. 

Just looked at Mulberry Street at my public library - all 11 copies are checked out, with 8 of them checked out after the annoucement that the estate was no longer going to print them.

Wonder how many of them won't be returned?

[pemart1966]

7 minutes ago, ttfitz said:

And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street is probably my favorite Suess book, and frankly one of my favorite books, period. When I first saw these stories, I thought, "Gee, what's offensive in that?" But when I read a more involved story that mentioned the stereotypical Asian depiction, it popped clearly in my head and I thought, "Oh, yeah, that's not good."

According to a recent article in the NY Times, "Mulberry Street" was edited in the 1970s...

[ThothAmon]

8 hours ago, Bird said:

This topic makes me think.

Back in the day, 1970s NYC, channel 11 late at night (I think it was saturdays but could have been fridays) showed a double header, Charlie Chan (Warner Oland) and Sherlock Holmes (Basil Rathbone). Every week you got one movie from each series and I think they may have switched the order every week (Chan then Homes, next week Holmes then Chan). I loved watching those every week. When I had kids and we would look for family movies I went to find the Chan movies...nope...all gone. (I just looked and you can now see them it seems, but the point remains and they remain controversial.) My father always called my older brother "number one son" after the movies characters. It was a nice nostalgic memory. But my kids are not deprived because they never saw the Chan movies, they had many other entertainment vehicles to be entranced by and we made new memories.

And now you can see the Chan films again. The pendulum has swung again. I just checked and they are on prime. I may watch one tonight. The rathbone Holmes movies still stand up for me so hopefully these will at well.

The world continues to improve in most every way. Less poverty. Less dictators. Less hungry. Less uneducated. Less restrictions on women's rights. Our grandchildren will not only be fine they will excel and surpass us. The culture will continue to grow and breath and, yes, expand. Some things will be lost and forgotten, many rightfully so because time marches on.

 

Man I loved your story Bird. You write a lot of things that make me LOL and we share similar touchstone memories. That said it’s amazing how we can view the current state of the world so differently. 

[Bird]

6 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Man I loved your story Bird. You write a lot of things that make me LOL and we share similar touchstone memories. That said it’s amazing how we can view the current state of the world so differently. 

I watched Charlie Chan’s secret about an hour ago and enjoyed it it was 72 minutes long

[jsilverjanet]

@Buzzetta I don’t think you’ve been here 

[HotKey]

[jsilverjanet]

Good luck with that meme 

[snitzer]

17 minutes ago, jsilverjanet said:

Good luck with that meme 

Don’t worry. eBay says it’s ok 

[ttfitz]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:54 PM, Bird said:

I can put 10 Frank Zappa songs up against any Cardi B song, WAP included, and you will agree that the Zappa is more obscene and more sexual

Catholic Girls.

[Bird]

Just now, ttfitz said:

Catholic Girls.

you know how it goes

[jcjames]

Imagine if the Dr. Seuss publishers had just... stopped publishing those books.

Without a press-release full of virtue-signalling.

What if they had just chosen to stop printing new copies of those books, probably nobody would ever know. Those books would probably quietly and organically just fade away from the collective consciousness of the world.

And there would be no pushback to the perceived "censorship" and associated feebay bans on listing these books for sale thereby driving up demand and interest in books that almost no one would ever miss if they had just... stopped publishing them, quietly.

Because the conversation is really not about "are those images racially insensitive?", but now it is "do we honestly support free speech and why is feebay and others suddenly and highly-selectively banning books now?"

And so now, those defending free-speech can quickly be framed as defending racist caricatures and can thus be maligned or denigrated or even they themselves be banned, censored or fired. And that is probably a part of the ongoing "agenda".

It will certainly have, at a minimum, an intentionally-chilling effect on those daring to defend free-speech in highly-public settings from the one-sided attack of today's culture-shapers, I think.

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by jcjames

[FlyingDonut]

On 3/5/2021 at 11:52 AM, jcjames said:

This song won top multiple awards (American Music and People's Choice awards) and critical acclaim for its "sex-positive feminism" last year. "Sex-Positive Feminism" is a growing and widely popular (as evidenced by this multi-award winning "song") social movement to progress feminism to embrace and support the pornographic portrayal of women. Yes, that's exactly it's purpose - to oppose those feminists who viewed pornography as demeaning to and objectifying of women.

There is no bottom to the gutter that American culture (especially urban culture) is swirling down into at an accelerating pace.

I grew up listening to Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, Commodores, Manhattans, Diana Ross, Al Green and so many others. Motown was in high rotation in my house as a kid. What kids are filling their heads with today is pure toxic soul-killing poison. 

BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK

[FlyingDonut]

Just wondering if any of you would like to buy a bootleg copy of "Song of the South".

[grebal]

33 minutes ago, ttfitz said:

On 3/5/2021 at 2:54 PM, Bird said:

I can put 10 Frank Zappa songs up against any Cardi B song, WAP included, and you will agree that the Zappa is more obscene and more sexual

Catholic Girls.

Nah. Pretty tame overall.  You know how they go ... after the show.  or I love how they go, so send me a dozen.   or Aaall the way . . .  or She was on her knees.  Nothing like Cardi B's wet kittens in that particular one, just a lot of suggestive lyrics, mostly innuendo.

Though two others come immediately to mind in particular, much more direct: Dina Mo Hum, and Cyborg.  They're pretty high-end raunch. But with the awesome superiority of being pretty damn funny.  Done spent three hours and I ain't got a crumb . . .   And I mean, others like Titties and Beer are practically PG13, and, again, have the advantage of being hilarious.  I know, now I'm just quibbling about taste - but clue me in Bird, what are those FZ raunchy lyrics that I'm forgetting?  There're lots of f-bombs, I know that, but I mean explicit obscenity re sexual.

[Bird]

8 minutes ago, jcjames said:

Imagine if the Dr. Seuss publishers had just... stopped publishing those books.

Without a press-release full of virtue-signalling.

What if they had just chosen to stop printing new copies of those books, probably nobody would ever know. Those books would probably quietly and organically just fade away from the collective consciousness of the world.

And there would be no pushback to the perceived "censorship" and associated feebay bans on listing these books for sale thereby driving up demand and interest in books that almost no one would ever miss if they had just... stopped publishing them, quietly.

Because the conversation is really not about "are those images racially insensitive?", but now it is "do we honestly support free speech and why is feebay and others suddenly and highly-selectively banning books now?"

And so now, those defending free-speech can quickly be framed as defending racist caricatures and can thus be maligned or denigrated or even they themselves be banned, censored or fired. And that is probably a part of the ongoing "agenda".

It will certainly have, at a minimum, an intentionally-chilling effect on those daring to defend free-speech in highly-public settings from the one-sided attack of today's culture-shapers, I think.

 

 

 

I am not sure why a free speech advocate is against virtue signalling? Isn't that protected and free speech as well? Isn't the press release an exercise in free speech? Free speech is there for the things you do not want to hear, not the things that you do want to hear. My stance as a free speech advocate is that all voices should be heard and the ones that cannot stand the heat will fall aside; my personal faith in humanity beoeves that the better and more productive ideas will generally rise up and remain. And free speech advocates will not be chilled because they know how important it is. Yes some will fall aside but others will continue to stand.

Both you and I have been pretty active in this thread. Are either of us chilled by it? It doesn't seem so and I hope not. 

[Bird]

Just now, grebal said:

Nah. Pretty tame overall.  You know how they go ... after the show.  or I love how they go, so send me a dozen.   or Aaall the way . . .  or She was on her knees.  Nothing like Cardi B's wet kittens in that particular one, just a lot of suggestive lyrics, mostly innuendo.

Though two others come immediately to mind in particular, much more direct: Dina Mo Hum, and Cyborg.  They're pretty high-end raunch. But with the awesome superiority of being pretty damn funny.  Done spent three hours and I ain't got a crumb . . .   And I mean, others like Titties and Beer are practically PG13, and, again, have the advantage of being hilarious.  I know, now I'm just quibbling about taste - but clue me in Bird, what are those FZ raunchy lyrics that I'm forgetting?  There're lots of f-bombs, I know that, but I mean explicit obscenity re sexual.

bobby brown...keep it greasy were ones I mentioned earlier. Those two are top of the list off the top of my head.