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Removing an artists sketch from a cover
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32 posts in this topic

Is it theoretically possible to remove the silver paint pen sketch from this book? And if so, would it be restoration? I know some collectors like this kind of thing, but to me it's desecrating a 9.6 Bat 227.

RADC706420201123_19566.jpg

Edited by Randall Ries
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If it bled through to the inside front cover then there's probably no way to remove it. Even if you did it would have to be with something that didn't leave behind a chemical smell.

I don't mind sigs on boring covers, but man... I'm not a fan of sigs on gorgeous covers like that. :facepalm:

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These pens are called permanent markers for a reason.  In this case, silver ink permanent marker.  Anything capable of lifting the permanent marker would strip the printer's ink too. 

Far simpler would be to sell this copy and use the money to purchase a regular blue label. You might even be a few bucks ahead at the end of the process. 

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2 hours ago, Tony S said:

These pens are called permanent markers for a reason.  In this case, silver ink permanent marker.  Anything capable of lifting the permanent marker would strip the printer's ink too. 

Far simpler would be to sell this copy and use the money to purchase a regular blue label. You might even be a few bucks ahead at the end of the process. 

I totally agree...I don't dabble in signature series books, but assume this 9.6 would sell for more than a blue label 9.6?

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6 hours ago, silverseeker said:

I totally agree...I don't dabble in signature series books, but assume this 9.6 would sell for more than a blue label 9.6?

I'm not certain in this case. Seller wants $9,999 for it. I would assume  9.6 would go for the same or thereabout.

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9 hours ago, Tony S said:

These pens are called permanent markers for a reason.  In this case, silver ink permanent marker.  Anything capable of lifting the permanent marker would strip the printer's ink too. 

Far simpler would be to sell this copy and use the money to purchase a regular blue label. You might even be a few bucks ahead at the end of the process. 

The silver looks like paint pen to me but I'm not an expert. I know the black marker can't be removed. But the silver won't have bled through.

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13 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

If it bled through to the inside front cover then there's probably no way to remove it. Even if you did it would have to be with something that didn't leave behind a chemical smell.

I don't mind sigs on boring covers, but man... I'm not a fan of sigs on gorgeous covers like that. :facepalm:

A signature is fine by me tastefully applied. This to me is vandalism. I know some collectors like this kind of thing but come on. A collector shouldn't do that to a 9.6 "key" of sorts even though it isn't a key. There have been many high grade examples of this. Bat 227. Bat 251. Bat 232 etc where the owner had Adams draw all over it doing his cameos and all that.

I LOVE Neal Adams' work. He's my favorite from the bronze age late silver age. He'll do it (obviously) upon request because it's a job to him and it's up to the owner to decide what he wants on his book. I just think it's a lot shortsighted of the owner.

This book has been peddled around a little and is now on CLINK languishing. IMO, a 9.6 was wrecked, is no longer worth the $10k it would be worth w/o the doodling and crass bat in the moon. The owner wants $10k for it. He didn't really add anything to the actual value of the book after all. $10k is probably not an unreasonable ask for a 9.6 Bat 227. What he DID do is make it impossible to look at and difficult to sell.

So, if I WERE to buy the book, it wouldn't be for $10k and my mission would be to at least get rid of the cameo. Which looks like paint pen to me and not permanent marker. Which I assume would be an easier get rid of than black marker, which isn't possible at all.

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1 hour ago, Angel of Death said:

Plz do not desecrate Adams' work.

Well, no. That wouldn't be good at all. Except it doesn't belong there. IMO, a 9.6 Bat 227 is more important than an artists sketch especially when the artist is still around drawing on 9.6 examples of awesome books. It's not Adams' fault. It's the foolish person who owned the book who paid to have the book ruined. I know that some collectors like this sort of thing but apparently not enough to buy this book as is. It's been peddled around ebay and now on CLINK for at least a year since I first noticed it.

After the fact, I have to wonder how it got a 9.6 with the bleed through the bat in the moon drawing probably handed the inner cover.

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20 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Well, no. That wouldn't be good at all. Except it doesn't belong there. IMO, a 9.6 Bat 227 is more important than an artists sketch especially when the artist is still around drawing on 9.6 examples of awesome books. It's not Adams' fault. It's the foolish person who owned the book who paid to have the book ruined. I know that some collectors like this sort of thing but apparently not enough to buy this book as is. It's been peddled around ebay and now on CLINK for at least a year since I first noticed it.

After the fact, I have to wonder how it got a 9.6 with the bleed through the bat in the moon drawing probably handed the inner cover.

I think it does. It adds character and history to an otherwise identical copy of every other print.

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5 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

wot

Fundamentally, that's true. Yellow label books ignore signatures / sketches and grade the book as if they were not present. That's exactly the same as a qualified book, except that in the case of the Signature Series, the qualified "defect" is a witnessed signature. That's why if you deslab a Signature Series book and then ship it back to CGC, you'll get a green label slab in return (therefore: don't do this).

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4 minutes ago, Qalyar said:

Fundamentally, that's true. Yellow label books ignore signatures / sketches and grade the book as if they were not present. That's exactly the same as a qualified book, except that in the case of the Signature Series, the qualified "defect" is a witnessed signature. That's why if you deslab a Signature Series book and then ship it back to CGC, you'll get a green label slab in return (therefore: don't do this).

They're still two different thing, though, making the initial post incorrect.

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the actual artist desecrating his own art seems to be a bit of a stretch. my problem with that sketch is that the two bat symbols are really sloppy. the profile of batman is fine. after you're done spending $1000 to remove the ink and dropping the grade down to a 5.0, for the amount of money lost 

just go back in time and buy this for under $1K. it looks pretty nice. the signature isn't so unnerving. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-227-CGC-8-0-Signed-by-Neal-Adams-/184633853005?hash=item2afd09044d%3Ag%3AQiAAAOSwwqpgDJBE&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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52 minutes ago, the blob said:

the actual artist desecrating his own art seems to be a bit of a stretch. my problem with that sketch is that the two bat symbols are really sloppy. the profile of batman is fine. after you're done spending $1000 to remove the ink and dropping the grade down to a 5.0, for the amount of money lost 

just go back in time and buy this for under $1K. it looks pretty nice. the signature isn't so unnerving. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-227-CGC-8-0-Signed-by-Neal-Adams-/184633853005?hash=item2afd09044d%3Ag%3AQiAAAOSwwqpgDJBE&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Agreed! The 8.0 looks better. The sig alone is a much better visual fit with the artwork.

 

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2 hours ago, Angel of Death said:

I think it does. It adds character and history to an otherwise identical copy of every other print.

Yes! In most cases I would agree. In this case it is a matter of personal preference and taste. I LOVE the blank cover where an artist adds an awesome drawing. Some of those are breathtaking. On a Bat 227 where 9.6 by it self is hard to find and the book is actually a designated classic cover, adding a sketch to an already awesome cover with its own character is IMO overkill and makes it look tacky. But again, it isn't a matter of you are wrong and I am right or vice versa. Just a matter of taste. I lament the fact it was done to a 9.6 and not a 6.5, for example. It doesn't seem to have increased its saleability or desirability. It's been for sale for a good while. Maybe its the price? $10k for a 9.6 isn't out of bounds for a 9.6 of that book these days. Maybe people look at it and say "Thanks but no thanks" like myself. Either way, its a nearly perfect book with a glaring problem. Mostly - to the chagrin of the seller.

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Just now, Randall Ries said:

Yes! In most cases I would agree. In this case it is a matter of personal preference and taste. I LOVE the blank cover where an artist adds an awesome drawing. Some of those are breathtaking. On a Bat 227 where 9.6 by it self is hard to find and the book is actually a designated classic cover, adding a sketch to an already awesome cover with its own character is IMO overkill and makes it look tacky. But again, it isn't a matter of you are wrong and I am right or vice versa. Just a matter of taste. I lament the fact it was done to a 9.6 and not a 6.5, for example. It doesn't seem to have increased its saleability or desirability. It's been for sale for a good while. Maybe its the price? $10k for a 9.6 isn't out of bounds for a 9.6 of that book these days. Maybe people look at it and say "Thanks but no thanks" like myself. Either way, its a nearly perfect book with a glaring problem. Mostly - to the chagrin of the seller.

By default, I prefer Signature Series over Universal. I would love to have a Batman #227 with Neal Adams' signature on it.

Sketches are much more niche than just signatures.

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