So do sub-grades mean nothing on the secondary market? 3 3

[PokemanDude90]

Happy Friday, everyone.

To those of us that occasionally sell cards ("true collector" trigger warning): do sub-grades have almost no value-add in terms of a price premium on the secondary market? Based on all the convos I've had, the consensus was CGC slabs without sub-grades were far less appealing. All I've ever heard is "I won't buy a slab unless it has sub-grades".

Turns out I am talking to a bunch of liars because 80%+ of CGC slabs on Ebay sold listings do not have sub-grades, and as far as I can tell there's no real price difference between sub-graded slabs and non sub-graded slabs. It's no wonder people are abusing the $9/bulk tier right now.

So I ask the community.... is this just a byproduct of a super hot and inflated market, and in the long-term sub-grades will play a factor in CGC slab value? Or have I just been wasting money on sub-grades? (while grading fewer cards per $ on top of that and now waiting longer as well )

 

 

[C2N0]

For older/vintage cards I don’t know if it’s that important, but for modern sets it at least gives some verified indication of the condition of the card. I’ve heard PSA subscribers talk about wanting them as well. 
 

CGC in general is priced lower because they are the new kid on the block, and they also grade harder than PSA (somehow a harder grade/better quality card is worth less, not sure how but oh well). I’ve ordered a couple cards with sub grade just to give myself a benchmark of how the company grades, but 80-90% of all my orders through CGC are just going to be no sub grade for personal collection.  
 

There may be no real price difference on a card with and without a sub grade, but if that’s the case then it’s a nice added on feature you don’t have to pay extra for. 

[Iceman399]

The higher grade the card and the greater the price the more sub grade matters.

No one would really care about sub grades on a low grade card....but if you have the sub grades and it's a 9.5 with 3 10's and 1 9.0 you'd get more money (on average) than just a single 9.5 overall grade.  Not to mention if you have a 10.0 and have 4 sub grades of a 10.0 you'll get A LOT more money than just a standard 10.0

 

[geraldfordfan69]

Subgrades....barely matter.

Ive sold plenty of CGC cards through the PWCC auction house and nobody cares about them. Even if you have 2 10s or 3 10s, it makes zero difference in its resale value. The grade of the card is all that matters.

The only times subgrades actually matter in terms of resale value is trying to get the perfect 10. A perfect 10 requires subgrades. Otherwise, you just get a pristine 10. Its similar to BGS's Black Label verses a non-black label 10 in terms of value.

For the most part, yeah subgrades are a waste of money. Only use them if you think your card can be perfect and is old. New stuff, I dont see the point for the most part since getting a 10 in general is extremely hard and chances of getting a perfect 10 just doesnt justify throwing away the extra fee most of the time.

[Holku]

From the perspective of a buyer, I don't require subgrades. If I'm looking for a 9, and one has subgrades but another doesn't, all things being equal, I don't care.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Holku

[PichuCollector]

For the most part sub-grades only really matter for grades above 8.5 as they give an indication of how close it may have otherwise been to a 10. On top of that it's often cheaper to buy a graded near mint card than it is to buy a raw "near mint" card, so a lot of people buy graded cards to crack out of their cases to stick in their binder collections. You don't really need sub-grades for that at all - just a quick glance at the card to make sure it's what you're expecting.

If it's a not too hard to find grade 8.5 or higher card that I'm buying for the sake of adding to my collection I most certainly would prefer sub-grades. If it's a very rare card or has a lower grade the sub-grades make little difference to me.

[Lapsaes]

Honestly if I was faced with having to pick between 2 similar graded/condition cards-no matter the actual grade, I'd pick the card with subgrades.

At lower grades it doesn't really have any money value being added to it, but it's nice to have. It's sort of like swirls in holos, if you have it, that means your more likely to attract buyers and there are a small number willing to pay a small bit more for it at lower grades. Though at the same time, your actual value doesn't really increase unless it's a very good grade or a big hitter card.

I personally wouldn't buy CGC cards without the sub-grades since that's a big reason some people like CGC versus places like PSA. It just kills me not knowing why a card got the grade it got, and I know quite a few people who are the same in not wanting to buy CGC cards that don't have these subs.

[CHASEnBLUE]

Agreed. I don't buy many graded cards because I would rather seek them out and get them graded myself; however, I do want to know exactly what contributes to the final grade for a purchase.

[Mephisto]

With vintage Magic it definitely makes a difference with higher grade cards. I’m not even talking super high grade but I’ve seen significant differences between 9’s that were Quad + vs Quad ++. 
 

Not sure if it is different in the world of Pokémon.

[geraldfordfan69]

1 hour ago, Mephisto said:

With vintage Magic it definitely makes a difference with higher grade cards. I’m not even talking super high grade but I’ve seen significant differences between 9’s that were Quad + vs Quad ++. 
 

Not sure if it is different in the world of Pokémon.

It might matter with Magic but it makes zero different with Pokemon. Literally zero difference in terms of resale value. A card with 3 10s and 1 9 vs a card with 2 2 10s and 2 9s has no difference in terms of resale value. Ive sold quite a few 9.5's with varying subgrades and it didnt gain me more money than the market rate of the card.

Im reading people saying that they wouldnt buy cards without subs, but the data on ebay says differently. Zero premium what so ever, unless its perfect 10 (4 10s) verses pristine 10 (no subs but 10 overall grade). All that matters is the number.

[bulldog1986]

It quite literally depends on the buyers. If I'm in the market for a card, and it's between one with subgrades and one without, I'd pay a little more of a premium for subgraded card, especially since I'll know what's wrong with it and whether it could possibly regrade or cross grade. And as others above me have said, it really starts mattering with those higher grades. If I see a very very strong 9.5 that is a .5 subgrade away from a 10, that's a better potentially of an increase grade in regrading than something that just has a base grade and might need to go further before it could jump up.

[geraldfordfan69]

7 hours ago, bulldog1986 said:

It quite literally depends on the buyers. If I'm in the market for a card, and it's between one with subgrades and one without, I'd pay a little more of a premium for subgraded card, especially since I'll know what's wrong with it and whether it could possibly regrade or cross grade. And as others above me have said, it really starts mattering with those higher grades. If I see a very very strong 9.5 that is a .5 subgrade away from a 10, that's a better potentially of an increase grade in regrading than something that just has a base grade and might need to go further before it could jump up.

Thats if you have luxury of being able to be picky. When it comes to auctions, whatever is up is whatever people can bid on. And .5 difference really starts to become a matter of discretion at that point. Most of the time, its just a matter of luck if a card is graded a 9 vs a 9.5 since in reality, most cards of those grades are literally the same exact thing. Even with 10s, Ive never seen 10s that are very much different than a 9.5. 

In terms of end consumers though, nobody pays premiums for subgrades. I dont even think most resellers will pay the difference since hedging on something like that is kind of gambling at that point. Not really a for sure thing if a card with some 10 subs will change if you sent it somewhere else. A card without subs would have the same chances of moving up or down grades since it all comes down to opinion and the eye appeal alone gets changes in grades.

[MarkieTCG]

If you have something particularly hard to get or valuable, subs may be worth it; talking to others in the community, it may help buyer confidence. When I send in my personal stuff to get graded (my precious Eevees), I'm definitely getting subs then, but that's more for me since there's no resale going on there. It just depends on the card, I guess. There's also the concept of, for example, a "weak 9."

[Michael Ledon]

I'm learning to Grade so Sub Grades matter a lot to me.

I do like that Sub Grades encourages a grader to really justify the grade. As opposed to just giving an easy non-sub grade

Also, as a collector, I love how the subgrades look on the label

[Eric Sorensen]

I think it would be fantastic if CGC (in a perfect, non-backlogged world) could contact us when they know the collectable would grade as a perfect 10 and ask if we'd like to add subgrades. I don't know the exact grading outcome beforehand, hence my subbing to them in the first place . 

[Toybot]

I think Sub Grades matter ALOT. The only people who think Sub Grades don't are flippers cause it gives them a hard time. Things are sooooo much easier when it's just 1 overall grade, don't have to think about pricing as hard or compete as much. So whenever you hear someone who hates sub grades, it's cause they only care about the money.

[SharknadoInsurance]

Subgrades are one of the main reasons why I chose CGC. If I'm sending in a card, it's getting subgrades. I want to remove as much ambiguity as I can from the actual condition of the card. Plus I just think it looks better with subgrades than without. I also wouldn't buy a CGC card without subgrades unless it's really hard to find. My entire collection is sub grades and I'm OCD in that way haha. There's always going to be a portion of the community that just doesn't care about the subgrades and simply wants their card in a protected case. And that's absolutely fine. I think as people become more and more aware of CGC and what they do, the sub graded cards will have higher value long term. Pure speculation on my part, I'm no expert. Just how I feel about subgrades.

[Buzzetta]

On 3/7/2021 at 8:04 PM, geraldfordfan69 said:

It might matter with Magic but it makes zero different with Pokemon. Literally zero difference in terms of resale value. A card with 3 10s and 1 9 vs a card with 2 2 10s and 2 9s has no difference in terms of resale value. Ive sold quite a few 9.5's with varying subgrades and it didnt gain me more money than the market rate of the card.

Im reading people saying that they wouldnt buy cards without subs, but the data on ebay says differently. Zero premium what so ever, unless its perfect 10 (4 10s) verses pristine 10 (no subs but 10 overall grade). All that matters is the number.

One of the things that we have learned from comics is that at auction, not everyone, but there are too many people that buy the overall number and not the book.  I am guessing that you will see some of the same with cards.  

[LuckyMouse]

My rule of thumb as a collector thus far, if a cards value is over $100 I want subgrades. Under that, it's not an issue for me.

[comicdonna]

The thread has been cleaned up.  Keep it civil.