Randall Dowling Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 Pretty sure that's on the wrong side of the book to be a bindery tear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatterEaterLad Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 It's a common book, even in 9.8. They should compensate you with another book and then try and sell that as a 9.8 on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokiing Posted April 17, 2021 Author Share Posted April 17, 2021 Quote Your book was looked over by two other graders and they all agree the book matches the grade. Below is information they provided regarding this issue. This is a bindery chip, which would still be allowed in the 9.8 range. Since a bindery chip is something that occurs during manufacturing, we are more lenient when it comes to factoring into the final grade. And in this case, since a 9.8 has 2 higher grades above it, it can have a few minor defects, and this would be considered one of those allowable minor defects in 9.8. Asked CGC for another opinion since I don't agree with their assessment and got this reply. Is that tear really a minor defect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ries Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 hour ago, jokiing said: Asked CGC for another opinion since I don't agree with their assessment and got this reply. Is that tear really a minor defect? Was the tear on the book went you sent it in? I bet not. This may be their way of saying "We messed up your book and don't want to file a liability claim. It will jack up our premiums." So, they will "let" you keep it as a 9.8. But it's kinda "Fools Gold" at that point. I have not seen 9.8's with tears and missing pieces ever. Not legitimate ones. If I were a buyer looking at the scans on ebay, I would see that and conclude "Something happened somewhere. That's not a 9.8." And it isn't. Your alternative would be to figure out the FMV of that book in 9.8, then sell it as a 7.5. Because basically, that's about what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ries Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 On 4/14/2021 at 12:12 AM, MatterEaterLad said: and then try and sell that as a 9.8 on the open market. That's not cool, is it? CGC hoses their customer and now the customer is to try to hose someone else? Sure. You can TRY. Anyone who knows about what a 9.8 is supposed to look like will look at the scans and never even contact the buyer. Just would pass on by and look for a real 9.8. Do you think the book - if it were resubbed as raw - would get a 9.8? I don't. It would get a 7.5. MAYBE an 8.0. Not likely, though. So, now CGC has fraudulently let a book go as a 9.8 knowing full well it isn't. Heck. Post it in the "Buddy Can You Spare A Grade" forum. See what they think. Lot of those guys are pretty good at grading. I'd give it a 7.5. jokiing and MatterEaterLad 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Randall Ries said: Heck. Post it in the "Buddy Can You Spare A Grade" forum. See what they think. Lot of those guys are pretty good at grading. I'd give it a 7.5. I wouldn't give it a 9.8, but 7.5 seems a bit harsh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ries Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: I wouldn't give it a 9.8, but 7.5 seems a bit harsh... That's a good piece out. What you you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Randall Ries said: That's a good piece out. What you you say? One thing to keep in mind is the actual size of the piece missing in relationship to the size of the book. The location is also important---back cover defects aren't usually graded as harshly as front cover defects. If we use the simple method of grading the front cover as Near Mint and grading the back cover as VF, we can justifiably shoot for a grade somewhere in between those two parameters... Randall Ries 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ries Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 48 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: One thing to keep in mind is the actual size of the piece missing in relationship to the size of the book. The location is also important---back cover defects aren't usually graded as harshly as front cover defects. If we use the simple method of grading the front cover as Near Mint and grading the back cover as VF, we can justifiably shoot for a grade somewhere in between those two parameters... That may be true. I am sure it is if you say so. So, no longer a 9.8 regardless of the label and not a 7.5 either. I'd still like to see it posted in PGM and see what the masses think. What a terrible limbo to be subjected to, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewritestuff Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 Does the OP have any photos of the comic prior to submitting? it looks like there’s a little pieces of paper or other artifacts caught in the inner well to the left of the corner tear in the magnified photo...if so this would support the damage was done during slabbing. Early CGC books received purple labels on miscut comics, which is a factory error. If you send just about any comic with a chip that size already missing, they’d normally nail you on the grade. It would be better for the integrity of the company to admit the mistake and make good with the OP rather than admit to people that they are aware that one of their highest grading tiers allows for comics with such an obvious flaw, regardless of how said flaw occurred. Will some future buyer feel better knowing “It’s okay that it doesn’t look like a 9.8... it happened at the factory.”? At that point, what’s the difference HOW it happened? If it’s a 9.8 it should be damn near perfect. djzombi, The Lions Den and comicdiablo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Randall Ries said: That may be true. I am sure it is if you say so. So, no longer a 9.8 regardless of the label and not a 7.5 either. I'd still like to see it posted in PGM and see what the masses think. What a terrible limbo to be subjected to, though. As the saying goes: "It is what it is..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, thewritestuff said: Does the OP have any photos of the comic prior to submitting? it looks like there’s a little pieces of paper or other artifacts caught in the inner well to the left of the corner tear in the magnified photo...if so this would support the damage was done during slabbing. Early CGC books received purple labels on miscut comics, which is a factory error. If you send just about any comic with a chip that size already missing, they’d normally nail you on the grade. It would be better for the integrity of the company to admit the mistake and make good with the OP rather than admit to people that they are aware that one of their highest grading tiers allows for comics with such an obvious flaw, regardless of how said flaw occurred. Will some future buyer feel better knowing “It’s okay that it doesn’t look like a 9.8... it happened at the factory.”? At that point, what’s the difference HOW it happened? If it’s a 9.8 it should be damn near perfect. I would agree... jokiing and comicdiablo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jokiing Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share Posted April 24, 2021 Despite my protests, book is being shipped back to me. Did I get a "blind" regrading or were the graders told that this book was graded a 9.8 and then asked their opinion? I agree that cracking this comic and resubmitting raw would not get me another "9.8". I carefully picked 18 out of 50 copies of this book to be submitted and am positive that this book was not torn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 10 hours ago, jokiing said: Despite my protests, book is being shipped back to me. Did I get a "blind" regrading or were the graders told that this book was graded a 9.8 and then asked their opinion? I agree that cracking this comic and resubmitting raw would not get me another "9.8". I carefully picked 18 out of 50 copies of this book to be submitted and am positive that this book was not torn. 9 hours ago, The New Sheriff said: The graders don't know if a book was previously slabbed, nevermind what the grade was This book was not re-slabbed, nor re-submitted for grading through the CGC submission system, nothing to do with those things. The grade came back 9.8 with a piece out, OP says the piece was not out at time of submittal, more likely damaged by CGC during encapsulation. He brought this up to CGC, and he sent it back for a "second opinion", let them take a look at it from his perspective - a 9.8 with a big chunk missing, how can that be? It was shown to the graders. The graders said it is indeed a 9.8, manufacturing defect, and they sent it back to him, CGC not doing anything about it. OP now wants to know if he got a "blind" re-grading, as in they saw the grade, got influenced by the grade, agreed that it was a 9.8 and did a cya thing for CGC. As opposed to seeing the comic with the grade covered up, to form a new objective opinion with no grade influence. Would they come to the same conclusion??? In any of the cases, they are washing their hands of it. Now he is stuck with a comic that has a high grade but does not appear to be accurate. That's a tough sell. jokiing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 On 4/13/2021 at 11:55 PM, Randall Dowling said: Pretty sure that's on the wrong side of the book to be a bindery tear... It is. Any bindery defect relates to the book's spine (tears being at the edges) since that is the side where a book is bound. I know you know that, I am just spelling it out because it sounds freaken obvious and makes CGC's remark sound like they are as high as a kite. A chip on the other side can happen, but it's when the pages are cut and unrelated to the binding. Also, I thought that defects on a 9.8 tend to be accepted when many copies have that defect. And yet, I would be shocked if someone could show me 10 other Wolverine 1s with that defect. Randall Dowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 (edited) My understanding of "bindery defect" is any defect that could happen as a result of the manufacturing process, all of which fall under the bindery process. If you are a book binder, you assemble books from scratch - collating pages, cutting to size, making hardcover boards, wrapping those boards with custom covers, gluing spines, etc. Any of those steps is part of the bindery process. It is not limited to the binding of the book, or spine. We now use the word "manufacturing" because most steps are done by machine, not by hand. Overstreet refers to the place that comics are produced as "the bindery". So "bindery defects" are mistakes or "accidents" that happen at the bindery - miscuts, chips missing due to dull blades, printer's creases, registration errors, wrong color used, etc. Edited May 3, 2021 by Lightning55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewritestuff Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 In essence, one could theoretically take an otherwise sharp modern book with a top corner ding, take a pair of tweezers, make a small incision and--abracadabra--you've got yourself a bindery tear and score a higher grade than you would with the corner ding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
