Value of UK price variant SA grails 3 3

[Frisco Larson]

I might be able to provide a different perspective on this topic. Since others have discussed several big key books already, allow me to offer my own personal experience with some very cool, yet non key Marvels. The books pictured below are my copies, purchased at auction. The prices listed are the prices you'd see on GPA and do not reflect tax or shipping costs that were certainly a part of the final cost. First the TOS #23 issues: 5.0 ow/w American copy purchased 2/21 for $170 & the 5.5 c/ow UK copy purchased 7/20 for $165. Now the TTA #30 issues: 5.5 ow/w American copy purchased 7/20 for $100 & the 5.0 c/ow UK copy purchased 7/20 for $137. Now it's important to consider the fact that I actively seek out the UK price variant issues and prefer to get American & UK copies in similar grades if I can find them that way. Perhaps I'm willing to pay more than some collectors for them, but I have no real way to establish that, because I have certainly been outbid before. My "take" on the situation is that in most cases, the gap between UK copies and American copies have closed substantially. I've been having to increase my buy prices when I see them and I see BIN prices at all time highs! I believe that it's a trend that hasn't reached it's zenith yet. For collectors who, for example, have completed their Silver Age Marvel runs, these UK copies are a fun and challenging way to keep collecting the books you love. For those who think the UK copies are worth less that the American copies remember this: a coverless American AF15 and a coverless UK AF15 look the exact same! A coverless AF15 is worth a healthy amount of cash! With no way to differentiate between the two, how can one be considered to be worth less than the other? Food for thought .... 

[gadzukes]

On 3/26/2021 at 11:00 AM, Frisco Larson said:

For those who think the UK copies are worth less that the American copies remember this:

a coverless American AF15 and a coverless UK AF15 ARE the exact same!

Great post, with great pics.

I had to fix one thing for you. 

They don't just "look" the same.... they ARE the same.

[rakehell]

On 3/24/2021 at 12:28 PM, Pantodude said:

And if you think this trend is just with big keys, not so.   A Strange Tales #89 UKPV CGC 3.0 sold on 3/16 for $1,176, when a regular cents version had sold on 2/20 for $995.  And on 3/18, an AMS#12 UKPV CGC 6.5 sold for about the same price that a regular cents version sold on 3/14. 

I've noticed a lot of this lately. An example dear to my heart: just try to get a decent copy of Star Wars #2 UKPPV for less than £30. It makes it very tough to be a chintzy bugger. I'll have to start collecting Richie Rich or something. 

Good bit of research, btw.

Edited March 29, 2021 by rakehell

[rakehell]

10 hours ago, gadzukes said:

I had to fix one thing for you. 

They don't just "look" the same.... they ARE the same.

Ditto to that. They are all from the same run. The difference only exists when the cover wrap is added.

[Frisco Larson]

14 hours ago, gadzukes said:

Great post, with great pics.

I had to fix one thing for you. 

They don't just "look" the same.... they ARE the same.

I stand ..... corrected???  

[Frisco Larson]

4 hours ago, rakehell said:

Ditto to that. They are all from the same run. The difference only exists when the cover wrap is added.

Correct, printed together is what I've read. So, VISUALLY someone couldn't tell one from the other in coverless form. So, how could one be considered lesser than the other? That was my original point, which may have been lost.

[GermanFan]

They (the 9d SA keys) are much rarer than cent copies. That makes them interesting for me. Same like the mexican la prensa books. They cost as much as the US cents originals. 

[Frisco Larson]

I see less pence copies now than I did just a few years ago. I've been working on the PHM area and the market has dried up considerably. Where I once found some nice grade copies available, now I'm happy to find just about ANY copy! I DO hope that that means they're becoming more accepted in the hobby for being the great books that they are! I'm also buying La Prensa books that fit my current collecting goals. I have yet to have any books where I have a copy of all three of an issue. Here are a pair of lower grade raw books that I'm just happy to have at all. 

[gadzukes]

A Pence Xmen 6.0 SS (Stan sig) just sold a couple days ago for $19400.

That compares to the US 6.0 (non SS) that just sold for $23,500.

Strangely a 6.0 SS (Stan sig) just sold for $40,000. 

 

Of these 3, I believe the $40,000 is the aberration.  You can't tell me Stans sig adds $16,500 to a comic.  I believe a very foolish person bought that one and we can ignore it.

That leaves us with the first two examples.  In which case the Pence copy sold for about 20% less.

 

 

[Pantodude]

6 hours ago, gadzukes said:

In which case the Pence copy sold for about 20% less.

Or one could say 50% less (!), because its more direct counterpart was the 6.0 SS regular cents version that went for $40K at about the same time.  But I would like to look at it more closely when I have more time to myself later today and check back in.  

Edited April 3, 2021 by Pantodude

[Pantodude]

10 hours ago, gadzukes said:

A Pence

Some long-ish thoughts.  I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the legitimacy of the $40K for the signature series of the regular cents version of X-Men #1 in grade 6.0.  That $40K took place on 3/28, close in time to the non-SS 5.5 that sold for $32.5K on 3/23 (which you did not mention).  Also, the $23.5K for the non-SS regular cents version was on 3/17.  A week or two might as well be months in this rapidly evolving market for keys.  The fact that the higher valuations were more recent could mean that X-Men #1 remains on an uptick, consistent with all the threads on that subject.  So the $40K for the regular cents 6.0 SS could be legit, at least as legit as any of the other appreciation we have seen this past year for many key issues.  

Another consideration is that higher graded books are scarcer in signature series than non-SS for X-Men #1.  A 6.0 SS is top 10% (!) in the SS census for X-Men #1, compared to top 19.1% of universal census for non-SS 6.0.  So $40K for a 6.0 SS is not at all surprising in this market, especially given the recent $32.5K for a non-SS 5.5.       
But more pertinent to this thread, this all suggests that $19.4K for the UK price variant (“UKPV”) of X-Men #1 6.0 SS (White pages no less!) was a steal at not only half the recent $40K price of its regular cents counterpart, but also way below the recent price of even a non-SS regular cents at grade 5.5.   That was surprising.     

Another important consideration is that the UKPV 6.0 SS you are talking about was sold in an auction with a “Buy it Now,” but it sold via the BIN before any auction took place.  It could very well be that the buyer (perhaps someone informed by threads like these?  😊) grabbed that book quick after realizing the bargain at the BIN price.   In other words, because it never actually went to auction, it cannot be said that the BIN of $19.4K was the most that the seller could have fetched for that book at that time.  Note to self:  bargains can still be had on eBay via BIN.    

Even ignoring both the recent $40K for the 6.0 SS (as you recommend) and the recent $32.5K for the 5.5 (which you overlooked and thus weakens the premise for your recommendation to ignore the $40K figure), a UKPV selling for 20% less is just another data point to put in perspective.  Finding UKPVs that still sell below their regular cent counterparts is not inconsistent with the apparent upward trend for UKPVs.  Why?   While we are seeing UKPVs regularly fetching premiums, sometimes even significant premiums over their regular cents counterparts nowadays, the trend is still in its infancy.  So it should not be surprising that you can still find relative bargains for UKPVs.   
But what about the gap between $19.4K and the recent $40K for the regular cents 6.0 SS?  It could be that the seller of the UKPV 6.0 SS hasn't yet read the memo on UKPVs, read it but didn’t care, simply wanted to price the book to sell quick, or priced his BIN too low using stale FMV data.  

My guess is it was the latter.   Despite the GPA data noted above, GoCollect still says an X-Men #1 6.0’s FMV is only $16,000.  We have all heard the many concerns voiced on these boards about GoCollect’s apparent failure to keep up with the pace of book appreciation compared to GPA, and even GPA does not reflect Comic-Link results.  I note also that the seller only had an eBay feedback of 11 (!) and no eBay activity for over a year.  So it is possible the seller was not in the weeds like us regarding current valuations, and may not have had access to the GPA data showing the recent $40K for a 6.0 SS and a $32.5K for a non-SS 5.5.  That alone could explain the relatively low BIN of $19.4K.  
So I think the seller priced the book too low.  In that case, lucky buyer!   Apparently, lucky seller too.  According to GPA, that exact book sold for $9,900 in 2019, so if the seller was the buyer then, he still doubled his money.  In any event, using just GoCollect, the $19.4K BIN probably looked good to the seller (21% over the $16K FMV for a 6.0), so he/she might be happy with the sale.  

And here are some more examples of higher prices paid for UKPVs.  An X-Men #1 UK CGC 4.0 OW/W sold 1/21/21 on eBay for $11,995.  Only two other books sold in Jan2021 per GPA:  a cents version before on 1/5/21 for $10,500, and a cents version immediately after on 1/28/21 for $10,700.   A nice pence bump based on three sales close in time.   

More recently, a Tales of Suspense #57 CGC 7.0 UKPV sold for $1,695 "But it Now" on 3/29 despite the "best offer" being enabled.  That was significantly higher than the $1,350 for a regular cents version earlier that month for a 26% pence bump.   That $1,695 for the 7.0 UKPV was quite a bit higher than even the most recent $1,550 price in February for a regular cents version in grade 7.5!  Unlike X-Men#1, TOS #57 has not been on a torrid uptick, so the premium is remarkable.  An Avengers #1 UK CGC 4.5 O/W sold 3/26 on eBay for $6,995. The only other 4.5 book that sold in March 2021 was a cents on 3/4 for $6,211, so another apparent pence bump. Based on what we have seen of late, that UKPV premium could have been higher, so seems like another lucky buyer to me.  

With that all said, on Heritage today a FF#5 7.5 UK sold for $16.8K (premium included), below last month's three $20K plus valuations (1/8: $17,230; 1/16: $20,400, and most recently $28.5K on 3/26) for a regular cents 7.5.  But this might be an exception.  That $20K+ prices are at about what a JIM #83 goes for in same grade!  However cool Dr. Doom is, he is still a villain who has not even appeared in the MCU.  Even if he does as we all expect, HE IS STILL A VILLAIN!  A regular cents 7.5 was already $17K in January, double what it was the year before.  And the movie and Dr. D's role has not even come out yet!  Just pumping the breaks could explain the $16.8K for the UKPV, by aiming for the FMV of a 7.5. in January.  That makes more sense long-term (compared to FMV of superhero mega-keys like JIM#83).    Anyway, the 3.0 UKPV on Heritage sold for $6k, near the several $6.5K prices most recently fetched by a regular cents 3.0.  Considering that is about what a JIM #83 gets (no recent sales), that was a pretty good result for this UKPV compared to the 7.5 UKPV.   

Anyway, the mere fact that we are having this discussion (with data no less!) is already night and day compared to just two years ago.  So difficult to deny the trend upwards, even with a few exceptions (like the one you note and the FF#5 tonight, assuming I haven't explained them away above).  
 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Pantodude

[drmanhattanite]

1 hour ago, Pantodude said:

Some long-ish thoughts.  I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the legitimacy of the $40K for the signature series of the regular cents version of X-Men #1 in grade 6.0.  That $40K took place on 3/28, close in time to the non-SS 5.5 that sold for $32.5K on 3/23 (which you did not mention).  Also, the $23.5K for the non-SS regular cents version was on 3/17.  A week or two might as well be months in this rapidly evolving market for keys.  The fact that the higher valuations were more recent could mean that X-Men #1 remains on an uptick, consistent with all the threads on that subject.  So the $40K for the regular cents 6.0 SS could be legit, at least as legit as any of the other appreciation we have seen this past year for many key issues.  

Another consideration is that higher graded books are scarcer in signature series than non-SS for X-Men #1.  A 6.0 SS is top 10% (!) in the SS census for X-Men #1, compared to top 19.1% of universal census for non-SS 6.0.  So $40K for a 6.0 SS is not at all surprising in this market, especially given the recent $32.5K for a non-SS 5.5.       
But more pertinent to this thread, this all suggests that $19.4K for the UK price variant (“UKPV”) of X-Men #1 6.0 SS (White pages no less!) was a steal at not only half the recent $40K price of its regular cents counterpart, but also way below the recent price of even a non-SS regular cents at grade 5.5.   That was surprising.     

Another important consideration is that the UKPV 6.0 SS you are talking about was sold in an auction with a “Buy it Now,” but it sold via the BIN before any auction too place.  It could very well be that the buyer (perhaps someone informed by threads like these?  😊) grabbed that book quick after realizing the bargain at the BIN price.   In other words, because it never actually went to auction, it cannot be said that the BIN of $19.4K was the most that the seller could have fetched for that book at that time.  Note to self:  bargains can still be had on eBay via BIN.    

Even ignoring both the recent $40K for the 6.0 SS (as you recommend) and the recent $32.5K for the 5.5 (which you overlooked and thus weakens the premise for your recommendation to ignore the $40K figure), a UKPV selling for 20% less is just another data point to put in perspective.  Finding UKPVs that still sell below their regular cent counterparts is not inconsistent with the apparent upward trend for UKPVs.  Why?   While we are seeing UKPVs regularly fetching premiums, sometimes even significant premiums over their regular cents counterparts nowadays, the trend is still in its infancy.  So it should not be surprising that you can still find relative bargains for UKPVs.   
But what about the gap between $19.4K and the recent $40K for the regular cents 6.0 SS?  It could be that the seller of the UKPV 6.0 SS hasn't yet read the memo on UKPVs, read it but didn’t care, simply wanted to price the book to sell quick, or priced his BIN too low using stale FMV data.  

My guess is it was the latter.   Despite the GPA data noted above, GoCollect still says an X-Men #1 6.0’s FMV is only $16,000.  We have all heard the many concerns voiced on these boards about GoCollect’s apparent failure to keep up with the pace of book appreciation compared to GPA, and even GPA does not reflect Comic-Link results.  I note also that the seller only had an eBay feedback of 11 (!) and no eBay activity for over a year.  So it is possible the seller was not in the weeds like us regarding current valuations, and may not have had access to the GPA data showing the recent $40K for a 6.0 SS and a $32.5K for a non-SS 5.5.  That alone could explain the relatively low BIN of $19.4K.  
So I think the seller priced the book too low.  In that case, lucky buyer!   Apparently, lucky seller too.  According to GPA, that exact book sold for $9,900 in 2019, so if the seller was the buyer then, he still doubled his money.  In any event, using just GoCollect, the $19.4K BIN probably looked good to the seller (21% over the $16K FMV for a 6.0), so he/she might be happy with the sale.  

And here are some more examples of higher prices paid for UKPVs.  An X-Men #1 UK CGC 4.0 OW/W sold 1/21/21 on eBay for $11,995.  Only two other books sold in Jan2021 per GPA:  a cents version before on 1/5/21 for $10,500, and a cents version immediately after on 1/28/21 for $10,700.   A nice pence bump based on three sales close in time.   

More recently, a Tales of Suspense #57 CGC 7.0 UKPV sold for $1,695 "But it Now" on 3/29 despite the "best offer" being enabled.  That was significantly higher than the $1,350 for a regular cents version earlier that month for a 26% pence bump.   That $1,695 for the 7.0 UKPV was quite a bit higher than even the most recent $1,550 price in February for a regular cents version in grade 7.5!  Unlike X-Men#1, TOS #57 has not been on a torrid uptick, so the premium is remarkable.  An Avengers #1 UK CGC 4.5 O/W sold 3/26 on eBay for $6,995. The only other 4.5 book that sold in March 2021 was a cents on 3/4 for $6,211, so another apparent pence bump. Based on what we have seen of late, that UKPV premium could have been higher, so seems like another lucky buyer to me.  

With that all said, on Heritage today a FF#5 7.5 UK sold for $16.8K (premium included), below last month's three $20K plus valuations (1/8: $17,230; 1/16: $20,400, and most recently $28.5K on 3/26) for a regular cents 7.5.  But this might be an exception.  That is at about what a JIM #83 goes for in same grade!  However cool Dr. Doom is, he is still a villain who has not even appeared in the MCU.  Even if he does as we all expect, HE IS STILL A VILLAIN!  A regular cents 7.5 was already $17K in January, double what it was the year before.  And the movie and Dr. D's role has not even come out yet!  Just pumping the breaks could explain the $16.8K for the UKPV, by aiming for the FMV of a 7.5. in January.  That makes more sense long-term (compared to FMV of superhero mega-keys like JIM#83).    Anyway, the 3.0 UKPV on Heritage sold for $6k, near the several $6.5K prices most recently fetched by a regular cents 3.0.  Considering that is about what a JIM #83 gets (no recent sales), that was a pretty good result for this UKPV compared to the 7.5 UKPV.   

Anyway, the mere fact that we are having this discussion (with data no less!) is already night and day compared to just two years ago.  So difficult to deny the trend upwards, even with a few exceptions (like the one you note and the FF#5 tonight).  
 

Good post. Doesn't gpa list ~29k sale for a FF5 7.5 recently, which would be a big change from the 17k Uk 7.5 sale today? Also, 3.0 FF5 have sold for 8500 on comiclink, which is noticeably different than the 6000$ uk sale. 

[Pantodude]

15 minutes ago, drmanhattanite said:

Good post. Doesn't gpa list ~29k sale for a FF5 7.5 recently, which would be a big change from the 17k Uk 7.5 sale today? Also, 3.0 FF5 have sold for 8500 on comiclink, which is noticeably different than the 6000$ uk sale. 

Yes, I mentioned the $29K sale (but I used the actual $28.5K figure, so same sale).  I was not aware of the FF5 sale on Comic-Link (thanks), and maybe the bidders tonight didn't either?    The obvious distinguishing feature w/ FF5 prices is that it is unprecedented for a villain intro book to approach, let alone surpass, the values of superhero intro books, and JIM#83 is a mega-key superhero intro book.  So I wonder whether wary bidders would have bid no more for a regular cents 7.5 and 3.0 than the UKPVs tonight.  Too bad the auction didn't include either.   Oh well.  

[drmanhattanite]

25 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

Yes, I mentioned the $29K sale (but I used the actual $28.5K figure, so same sale).  I was not aware of the FF5 sale on Comic-Link (thanks), and maybe the bidders tonight didn't either?    The obvious distinguishing feature w/ FF5 prices is that it is unprecedented for a villain intro book to approach, let alone surpass, the values of superhero intro books, and JIM#83 is a mega-key superhero intro book.  So I wonder whether wary bidders would have bid no more for a regular cents 7.5 and 3.0 than the UKPVs tonight.  Too bad the auction didn't include either.   Oh well.  

agreed. can FF5 sustain this growth, as a villain book? I think so, since Doom is a legendary villain but also can be presented as a Loki-esque antihero. So that gray zone may propel FF5 to grow like a blue chip hero key??

[Pantodude]

23 minutes ago, drmanhattanite said:

So that gray zone may propel FF5 to grow like a blue chip hero key??

Just because it's unprecedented does not mean it will never happen, and if it ever does, who better than Dr. Doom for that!  So i hear you.  it's possible.

But I must say wow, these posts get around!  Received a personal email about the XM1 6.0 SS.  Not upset about the unsolicited contact, just surprised, and how he/she got my email?  Also doesn't even have the book yet?   At the right price any UKPV is on the menu, so maybe that's it.  Intrigued.  But that would be a huge upgrade for me.  And my wife....   

Edited April 4, 2021 by Pantodude

[Pantodude]

11 hours ago, drmanhattanite said:

Good post. Doesn't gpa list ~29k sale for a FF5 7.5 recently, which would be a big change from the 17k Uk 7.5 sale today? Also, 3.0 FF5 have sold for 8500 on comiclink, which is noticeably different than the 6000$ uk sale. 

I almost overlooked the bit of miswrap on the FF5 7.5 UKPV.  Only 2/3 of the price circle is visible.  Not a big deal, but coupled with the “unusualness” of a UKPV, that could explain the discount, too, at least for this group of bidders?  

Edited April 4, 2021 by Pantodude

[Pantodude]

Regardless, that FF#5 UKPV 7.5 White-pager on Heritage was a steal, especially if the most recent prices for regular cents versions grade 7.5 were not outliers and instead the new norm.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by Pantodude

[SaintMichael]

Curious as I bought a uk copy of first app of gamora a year or so ago and didn't even flinch that it was a uk version.  Was more concerned with it being a first print.  Paid what the u.s. versions were going for at the time.  Is this book actually worth more?  

[Pantodude]

Hi.  Nice UKPV book, BTW!    As for relative value, here is the recent history from grades 6.5 and up (from GPAnalysis), the only grades with sales of a UKPV.

6.5:  most recently, UKPV sold 6/19/21 for $124 shortly after a cents 6.5 sold for $114 on 5/9/21. 

7.0:  most recently, UKPV sold 12/8/21 for $205 when a cents 7.0 sold for $144 on 10/29/21 and $149 on 12/27/21.

7.5:  not since 2018

8.0:  most recently, UKPV sold for $168 on 9/27/21 when a cents 8.0 sold for $233 on 9/28/21 and $225 on 9/29/21.

8.5:  most recently, UKPV sold for $306 on 2/12/22 when a cents 8.5 sold for $300 on 2/24/22 and $275 on 3/10/22. 

9.0:  most recently, UKPV sold for $360 on 5/16/22 when a cents 9.0 sold for $231 on 3/18/22 and $305 on 7/3/22 (the only sales around May 2022)

9.2:  most recently, UKPV sold for $324 on 4/25/21 when a cents 9.2 sold for $276 that same day, but also $320 on 4/17/21 and $288 on 4/11/21.  

Looks like you would be ahead of the game in most of those grades on the sale dates noted.    And it's relatively scarce to boot.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Pantodude

[Macthehammer]

Wow, just found out about these other variants. Obviously,  already aware of US price, and Canadian variants that have already established themselves as more desirable. UK variants were obviously confused with reprints and so rare no one knew any better when they ran by them. And, who runs by a key issue in top condition to even care that much? The only thing that will prevent UK variants from going through the roof is scarcity because no one will even know they exist to desire them. The UK variants should already be worth more than the previously mentioned. I'll be buying everyone I can get my hands on high grade while there is a major discount. I already prize my few Canadian variants.