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Has there been a substantial increase in the number of serious comic book collectors?
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104 posts in this topic

Prices of sports cards are soaring.  I attributed this to a combination of two factors;  1)  new collectors due to COVID who got into sports, here and around the world; 2)  money printing/speculation/fomo, etc.  the second factor is the bigger dynamic. It is easy to see this second factor.  I would like opinions on whether the comic market has also experienced a wave of new legitimate collectors.  I am not talking about just speculators and I am not talking at all about the rush to get out of cash.  I am seeking opinions on whether the number of people who are genuinely interested in the hobby.  As far as I can tell, the stamp market is dying, and the coin market, which I believe was for a long time the king of collectible (nine active) hobbies, is dying out.  There are still plenty of wealthy people who grew up as coin collectors are still active, but there is absolutely no nostalgia value and I don’t see any young collectors entering the hobby.  I thought comics would go the same way, especially with digital comics, but I can understand how sports cards can attract new collectors who might be interested in the history and know about the great players even though they never saw them play.  I can get why someone that starts collecting cards of modern players would be interested in owning a Willie Mays or Oscar Robertson or Walter Peyton card.  Are their new people getting into comics that are real collectors as opposed to simply investors, speculators, or TINA types who hear they will triple their money on social media?  I haven’t been following prices until recently, and I am asking because because their seems like the bulk of the appreciation is going to new ultra rare cards, or keys.  I am sure there have been plenty of observations about that, as well as speculative further bubble talk, but I just want to know about the number of new “collectors”, the people who would appreciate a semi key, for example.  It is easy for a non collector to understand the desirability of the first issue of Spider-Man, but difficult for a non collector to understand the first issue where the Hulk fights the Fantastic Four, or something even more esoteric like Defenders #10.  I would appreciate any thoughts, specific to this narrow question.

Edited by inovrmihd
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Based on the steady and continuous rising of prices I'd say the number of comic collectors continues to grow.  many books i bought for $10 5 years agoare now in the $200 range.  $20 books like FF 19 and Thor 103 that I bought for $20 are now at $500.  

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1 hour ago, kav said:

Based on the steady and continuous rising of prices I'd say the number of comic collectors continues to grow.  many books i bought for $10 5 years agoare now in the $200 range.  $20 books like FF 19 and Thor 103 that I bought for $20 are now at $500.  

Hasn’t the rise in prices been selective? I have read that most non keys, especially D.C. haven’t gone up that much, and I am not sure which way this cuts.  High grade Green Lantern 76 hasn’t gone anywhere as far as I can tell, and that may mean the character has lost relevance to all the new collectors, or it isn’t seen as a hypeable comic.  Which comics have.soared in value and how much is due to a new wave of collectors, a new wave of speculators, or the current collectors seeing it as equivalent to sports cards and relatively under valued, is all unclear to me.

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2 hours ago, inovrmihd said:

Hasn’t the rise in prices been selective? I have read that most non keys, especially D.C. haven’t gone up that much, and I am not sure which way this cuts.  High grade Green Lantern 76 hasn’t gone anywhere as far as I can tell, and that may mean the character has lost relevance to all the new collectors, or it isn’t seen as a hypeable comic.  Which comics have.soared in value and how much is due to a new wave of collectors, a new wave of speculators, or the current collectors seeing it as equivalent to sports cards and relatively under valued, is all unclear to me.

Dc had far larger print runs so they dont rise much compared to Marvel there's pleny of em.  Thor, spider Man x men and FF have simply exploded.  One DC title that has soared and continued to rise is strange adventures and mystery in space.  They used to be pretty cheap till collectors realized how good they are.   DC blew away marvel in sci fi books as they hired known sci fi writers like edmond hamilton and otto binder to write them.   All Marvel could produce was sci fi stories like GROOM!  THE THING THAT WALKED!  or FLOOM! THE THING THAT LIVED!!  or VA-VA-VOOM! THE THING THAT DID SOMETHING OR OTHER!

Edited by kav
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Weird thoughts at 5:00 am:

1) There are more venues hyping books. In sports betting you'd call them touts. More podcasts, youtube channels, and Instragram feeds (though I like the IG claim sales and think they're great, especially in a year without cons). Lots of these venues are all about spec, from pushing quasi big books like Hulk 180 to stuff like ROM 1 (there were rumors of a movie). All of this hyping up the market to serious collectors and comic fans with budgets large and small.

2) Then there are those who aren't into comics but get sucked in by the hype. Comics are like bitcoin to them. There was a non-collector in a FB group this week who said he was selling two rental properties to buy comics and wanted to know what he should buy beyond an AF15. I told him the ultra-rare Squirrel Girl #1 Adamantium Edition in 12.0 -- keep looking, it's out there!

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I took a few days off this week from listening to comic book spec podcasts/YouTube videos and reading spec websites and I discovered two things: 1) my blood pressure dropped; and 2) I did not feel the need to buy every single book I've ever wanted right now based on fear of FOMO or getting priced out.  Like @MatterEaterLadsaid, these spec venues whip up a competitive instinct in some collectors.  And it's not enough to just own the book, but you have to get a perfectly centered 9.8 (at least for modern) or it's .  I can see new blood getting all caught up in this.      

Edited by Mr. Bombastic
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6 minutes ago, Westy Steve said:

I'm seeing an influx of collectors that I describe as "those kids on their cell phones using the Robinhood App to purchase Tesla and Bitcoin".  I see them in my other collecting interests too...not just comics.  I wouldn't characterize them as "gamblers" per se, but they are more like "buy it because it's moving" investors.  They don't consider the fundamentals (i.e., Tesla is now worth more than all of the other car companies combined), but instead only focus on momentum.  Essentially, they are focusing only on the Demand side of the equation, with no regard to supply (e.g., there are a lot of Spidey #300s out there).  So my response is to be a contrarian, and focus on buying things that are rarer (and perhaps on the fringe of being a key).

All it would take is one guy with deep pockets to send the price of ASM 300 tumbling.  Lists 30 copies at a time at 1/2 market and repeat.  People see the price falling they would unload fast and it would snowball.

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36 minutes ago, kav said:

All it would take is one guy with deep pockets to send the price of ASM 300 tumbling.  Lists 30 copies at a time at 1/2 market and repeat.  People see the price falling they would unload fast and it would snowball.

Why would you need deep pockets to sell cheaply? Unless you mean he first has to buy those 30 copies and then repeat. Makes no sense. All it would take is one guy with 1/2 as deep pokets to buy up those 30 copies he is selling at 1/2 market and the market will not blink. 

I dare anyone to offer 30 copies of ASM #300 at 50% of the going value and see what happens. If anyone wants to do so, I will buy all 30 copies of a CGC ASM #300 at half GPA right now. You pick the grade. Deliver me 30 copies and I will deliver the cash.

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9 minutes ago, Shrevvy said:

Why would you need deep pockets to sell cheaply? Unless you mean he first has to buy those 30 copies and then repeat. Makes no sense. All it would take is one guy with 1/2 as deep pokets to buy up those 30 copies he is selling at 1/2 market and the market will not blink. 

I dare anyone to offer 30 copies of ASM #300 at 50% of the going value and see what happens. If anyone wants to do so, I will buy all 30 copies of a CGC ASM #300 at half GPA right now. You pick the grade. Deliver me 30 copies and I will deliver the cash.

Yes say a billionaire buys up numerous copies.  He then starts listing them cheap.  Other seller's copies go unsold.  GPA for the book falls.  All the people that bought ASM 300 for investment panic as the copies keep geting sold cheaper and cheaper.  They sell.  It snowballs.  Think tulip bulbs here.  

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1 minute ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

A person with deep pockets could also buy up every copy available and burn them. 

That would increase the price.  My scenario is different.

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2 minutes ago, THE_BEYONDER said:

Both scenarios are senseless.

It's merely a thought experiment like Einstein used to develop his theories of relativity.  A man in a space ship travelling at the speed of light is also senseless but the thought experiment was fruitful for understanding.

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I am not sure there are MORE collectors out there buying books.

I am rather certain that many collectors who were once in their 20s and 30s with mortgages and babies, are now "older" and in poessesion of more "disposable income".

This may be one of the key factors in the rise in "value".

(shrug)

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I would say there are more investors than ever before. Not even so much speculators but actual professional investors. Physical assets of all kinds are skyrocketing in value as a hedge against inflation. I would wager that a large percentage of people are new to buying comic books care very little about the book itself and only about the ROI they hope to achieve. 

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15 hours ago, kav said:

Based on the steady and continuous rising of prices I'd say the number of comic collectors continues to grow.  many books i bought for $10 5 years agoare now in the $200 range.  $20 books like FF 19 and Thor 103 that I bought for $20 are now at $500.  

i don't think an FF 19 or Thor 103 in current $500 condition (slabbed 4.0-4.5, higher if raw) were such easily found books for $20 5 or even 10 years ago. Could you luck into a deal? Sure. I was selling books like those for A LOT more than $20 during that timeframe. I paid $5 for 3.0 FF 52 maybe 7-8 years ago. Doesn't mean it was a $5 book. Heck, 5 years ago (or whenever the Inhumans picked up) I was selling VG type copies of FF 47, one of the most common books of that era, for $20.

 

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1 hour ago, kav said:

@Buzzetta can a person with deep pockets single handedly destroy the value of a book that is not rare?

Yes.  There is someone currently doing that with Snow Serpent GI Joe figures.  He has admitted in the FB group that he actively buys every one he can find just to see what happens to the market price.    There are a couple of guys doing the same thing with Cobra B.A.T.S. figures.  Anytime one comes to auction you are competing with these guys. 

Gator also said that he believes he was behind the surge in value of Superman 14 as he was buying up every one of those he could get his hands on and holding them. 

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