Ebay Final Value Fee - WTF!!! 1 1

[LDarkseid1]

So just discovered something new I didn't know about. Not sure if others knew or not, but definitely surprised me.

Just sold my ASM 129 7.0 on ebay and it went for $2,560. Super happy with the sale just to say first off. As my payment came in though, because as you all know or most know it's now through a service they call "Managed Payments" once they broke off from Paypal, the amount I lost through fees was more than I thought it would be. So when they broke off from Paypal, they said they would charge 12.35% for anything up to $7K. So as I saw my net amount, it came out to roughly 13.5%, which naturally baffled me as I expected it to be 12.35%. I called Ebay, and as I explain the situation, the Ebay rep tells me it's now 12.65%. So I mean it still says it's 12.35% online, and apparently they must have sent an email explaining this update, but I don't recall getting it. Regardless, they should change it to the correct amount now on their site, but either way I'm just thinking like, "ok that's fine, but it still doesn't add up". So I tell her, you guys still took more off my sale, to which she further proceeds to explain that it comes off the "SALES TAX" as well!

I capitalized that because it astonished me to hear it haha. I finished up the call, looked at their seller fee guidelines and right there in the fine print, I saw they take off the sales tax as well. So I mean, I guess it is what is, it's written in the fine print. I just can't help but feel how damn greedy that is to take a percentage off the freaking sales tax. I mean Ebay charges that to the buyer, I don't see a penny of that. I guess that's corporate greed for ya though haha. Unless I'm missing something and there's nothing wrong with them making money off that amount, but seems ridiculous to me. Anyway, the additional amount wasn't the end all be all of fees, maybe an additional $20 from my sale, but that adds up over time!

Might make me reevaluate what I sell on Ebay going forward. Auction houses (C-link and Comicconnect) at a clean 10% seem to be the better option.

[Galen130]

Man, I am glad I closed my account last year.  Feebay has gotten bad.  I got out before all that nonsense with eBay splitting with PayPal.  So I sell here now...I do better in the threads anyway.

Sorry you’re going through this.  Maybe it is time for a change.   Best of luck!!!

[DavidTheDavid]

It's bogus that they take final value fees on shipping, too. I assume that still happens?

[LDarkseid1]

12 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

It's bogus that they take final value fees on shipping, too. I assume that still happens?

Yeah they do take off that as well, and I agree.

[LDarkseid1]

20 minutes ago, Galen130 said:

Man, I am glad I closed my account last year.  Feebay has gotten bad.  I got out before all that nonsense with eBay splitting with PayPal.  So I sell here now...I do better in the threads anyway.

Sorry you’re going through this.  Maybe it is time for a change.   Best of luck!!!

Yeah I mean I may still sell some stuff I guess on there, maybe more in the low end sports card market or raw comics not worth grading. But yeah, probably not listing higher end stuff anymore lol. Just not worth it. Not when they're going to be taking fees off sales tax as well. That about does it for me haha.

[manetteska]

22 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

So just discovered something new I didn't know about. Not sure if others knew or not, but definitely surprised me.

Just sold my ASM 129 7.0 on ebay and it went for $2,560. Super happy with the sale just to say first off. As my payment came in though, because as you all know or most know it's now through a service they call "Managed Payments" once they broke off from Paypal, the amount I lost through fees was more than I thought it would be. So when they broke off from Paypal, they said they would charge 12.35% for anything up to $7K. So as I saw my net amount, it came out to roughly 13.5%, which naturally baffled me as I expected it to be 12.35%. I called Ebay, and as I explain the situation, the Ebay rep tells me it's now 12.65%. So I mean it still says it's 12.35% online, and apparently they must have sent an email explaining this update, but I don't recall getting it. Regardless, they should change it to the correct amount now on their site, but either way I'm just thinking like, "ok that's fine, but it still doesn't add up". So I tell her, you guys still took more off my sale, to which she further proceeds to explain that it comes off the "SALES TAX" as well!

I capitalized that because it astonished me to hear it haha. I finished up the call, looked at their seller fee guidelines and right there in the fine print, I saw they take off the sales tax as well. So I mean, I guess it is what is, it's written in the fine print. I just can't help but feel how damn greedy that is to take a percentage off the freaking sales tax. I mean Ebay charges that to the buyer, I don't see a penny of that. I guess that's corporate greed for ya though haha. Unless I'm missing something and there's nothing wrong with them making money off that amount, but seems ridiculous to me. Anyway, the additional amount wasn't the end all be all of fees, maybe an additional $20 from my sale, but that adds up over time!

Might make me reevaluate what I sell on Ebay going forward. Auction houses (C-link and Comicconnect) at a clean 10% seem to be the better option.

Wow; they are taking the fees out of Sales Tax as well. Money that I never see is being deducted from my bottom line. Is that legal?

And yes, they still take the fees from the Shipping, which, in some weird way, at least the seller gets that money.

Here's a sale I just had when you go into the details:

And on my Payout email:

Can see the Amount column shows $364 -- which is the Item + Shipping -- yet the fees ($49.05) are against the full Total ($388.43), which includes Sales Tax. And, if I am taxed on $388.43, then the fees should be subtracted from that amount, not just Item + Shipping.

49.05 / 364 = 13.48%

49.05 / 388.43 = 12.63%

[Lightning55]

When they started charging sales tax, they dropped the FVF by 0.5% to compensate for working the sales tax into the sale.  It equates to a wash on a 5% sales tax purchase, so not really charging a fee on the tax. 

Yes, if the sale is over 5% tax, you pay more.  If the sale is under 5% tax, you pay less.  If there is no tax, you are way ahead on that one. 

I tracked it for a few months, and I paid a buck something LESS over the whole time ($40k in sales) compared to what I would have paid under the old system, so it's somewhat legit.  It's a non-factor, yet people are going ape over it.  Lack of understanding.

[WolverineX]

32 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

It's bogus that they take final value fees on shipping, too. I assume that still happens?

yes BS. i hate ebay

[LDarkseid1]

16 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

When they started charging sales tax, they dropped the FVF by 0.5% to compensate for working the sales tax into the sale.  It equates to a wash on a 5% sales tax purchase, so not really charging a fee on the tax. 

Yes, if the sale is over 5% tax, you pay more.  If the sale is under 5% tax, you pay less.  If there is no tax, you are way ahead on that one. 

I tracked it for a few months, and I paid a buck something LESS over the whole time ($40k in sales) compared to what I would have paid under the old system, so it's somewhat legit.  It's a non-factor, yet people are going ape over it.  Lack of understanding.

So yeah, all I know is I got hit with an additional .85% on top of my sale because they charged on the sales tax, for a total once again of about 13.5%. Most states pay a sales tax, and over 5%, so I guess that's convenient if it happens to be a state where someone doesn't pay, like Florida, but not the case here at least, and usually won't be I assume. I also sold something for $76, and it was worse, I lost about 13.75% on that one. So overall, it's definitely a negative in my opinion. It was bad enough when the Wayfair Act passed, but this just makes it worse. Also I feel like my understanding is just fine. I was definitely happy when Ebay started Managed Payments and lowered it to 12.35%, which once again is now 12.65%, and I'm sure at some point will be 13% (pre sales tax), and on and on. I mean if they dropped it to 12.35% as you say to account for the sales tax, still ridiculous. They should have just stuck with charging the additional amount and not saying they take off sales tax, for optics it seems worse to me. So as I said, auction houses are looking better and better.

Edited April 6, 2021 by LDarkseid1

[manetteska]

16 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

When they started charging sales tax, they dropped the FVF by 0.5% to compensate for working the sales tax into the sale.  It equates to a wash on a 5% sales tax purchase, so not really charging a fee on the tax. 

Yes, if the sale is over 5% tax, you pay more.  If the sale is under 5% tax, you pay less.  If there is no tax, you are way ahead on that one. 

I tracked it for a few months, and I paid a buck something LESS over the whole time ($40k in sales) compared to what I would have paid under the old system, so it's somewhat legit.  It's a non-factor, yet people are going ape over it.  Lack of understanding.

That's an awesome one-size sample test you did.

As you have done in the past, that is a really great example FOR YOU. Not for everyone.

There really isn't a lack of understanding when fees are being taken out of money I never -- in any scenario -- receive.

[manetteska]

And there is no way eBay is being "nice" by reducing the FVF by 0.5% (which has already been increased anyway). If they really want to be nice, or play fair, just ignore the Sales Tax altogether.

Why come up with some bizarre roundabout? (hint: it's to make money for them, not you)

[Lightning55]

10 minutes ago, manetteska said:

That's an awesome one-size sample test you did.

As you have done in the past, that is a really great example FOR YOU. Not for everyone.

There really isn't a lack of understanding when fees are being taken out of money I never -- in any scenario -- receive.

One-size sample???  Three months, $40,000 in sales, no negative impact.  You're not getting it, but no surprise.  Most don't.  It's just a math thing.  And for the fees going up, well, that's a given.

[Lightning55]

5 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Could you actually please refrain from quoting that a-hole, Manetteska. I chose to ignore him a while ago so I don't see his posts as he gets kinda rude, and I'd rather still be able to do that haha. I respect your opinion though, but disagree simply.

I'll try to go along on that.  The quote system helps a bit to keep thoughts straight, as sometimes other posts jump in as you are replying.

I do hear you on the sales tax thing.  Big mistake by eBay, trying to "simplify" things. That's why we have computers to figure things out for us.   

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/simpler-fees.html   If you read that "help" page, it's way more complicated than just doing it right in the first place. 

If they just took the tax out, charged their fee, put it back in, it would all be fine.  But no, they thought they had to dumb it down.  Now they are stuck with it , and its negative connotation.

[Shrevvy]

53 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

When they started charging sales tax, they dropped the FVF by 0.5% to compensate for working the sales tax into the sale.  It equates to a wash on a 5% sales tax purchase, so not really charging a fee on the tax. 

Yes, if the sale is over 5% tax, you pay more.  If the sale is under 5% tax, you pay less.  If there is no tax, you are way ahead on that one. 

I tracked it for a few months, and I paid a buck something LESS over the whole time ($40k in sales) compared to what I would have paid under the old system, so it's somewhat legit.  It's a non-factor, yet people are going ape over it.  Lack of understanding.

It is disingenuois on eBay's part. They sold it to everyone that it is a wash because they lowered the FVF to compensate for the charge against the sales tax. I agree that it was pretty much a wash. However, it appears clear that eBay had no intention of holding fees at that wash level. We are not even six months into managed payments (barely three months for us as we waited as long as possible) and eBay has quietly raised fees. I was looking at 1Q numbers yesterday (non-comic related biz) and noticed that the FVF was coming out higher than I remembered. That is the extra 30 bps they tacked on. If they communicated that (and probably did), I don't remember. 

I will say that managed payment does have benefits. We've had two chargebacks for people who "don't recognize the charge" despite this being bought on eBay and shipped to their address on file. eBay protected us even when the credit card company did not reverse a chargeback.  

[LDarkseid1]

6 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

I'll try to go along on that.  The quote system helps a bit to keep thoughts straight, as sometimes other posts jump in as you are replying.

I do hear you on the sales tax thing.  Big mistake by eBay, trying to "simplify" things. That's why we have computers to figure things out for us.   

https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/service-and-payments/simpler-fees.html   If you read that "help" page, it's way more complicated than just doing it right in the first place. 

If they just took the tax out, charged their fee, put it back in, it would all be fine.  But no, they thought they had to dumb it down.  Now they are stuck with it , and its negative connotation.

Yeah I mean like I said I'll probably sell some stuff regardless. It's still a large, global market which I like. Although most sales are domestic, which shipping wise I definitely prefer though lol.

Edited April 6, 2021 by LDarkseid1

[1Cool]

23 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Could you actually please refrain from quoting that a-hole, Manetteska. I chose to ignore him a while ago so I don't see his posts as he gets kinda rude, and I'd rather still be able to do that haha. I respect your opinion though, but disagree simply.

personal attacks are a no-no

[Shrevvy]

I should have mentioned in the above reply that I assumed that eBay would eventually raise fees. They have since inception. I just did not think it would be so soon. It makes it look like the initial "wash" explanation was just a bunch of hooey to placate everyone upon transfering to managed payments. 

[LDarkseid1]

2 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

personal attacks are a no-no

Yeah I agree

[Lightning55]

3 minutes ago, Shrevvy said:

I should have mentioned in the above reply that I assumed that eBay would eventually raise fees. They have since inception. I just did not think it would be so soon. It makes it look like the initial "wash" explanation was just a bunch of hooey to placate everyone upon transfering to managed payments. 

I'm surprised there was such a long time between fee increases.  Also surprised they didn't take the opportunity to raise fees DURING these transitions, you know, just slip it in there.  So much going on, who could keep up?

The change to MP was a wash in fees to us, but eBay made a bit more by bypassing some PayPal involvement.  The sales tax thing is mostly just a wash, but eBay is making bank on the other side of it with their accomplice, the city of San Jose, getting rebates there.

So if you look at the length of time that eBay has not been directly increasing fees to us until now, it might be as long as 2-3 years.  That's actually quite remarkable, considering they look to Amazon for an indication of what "the market will bear".  And Amazon makes eBay look like a bargain.

[LDarkseid1]

5 minutes ago, Lightning55 said:

I'm surprised there was such a long time between fee increases.  Also surprised they didn't take the opportunity to raise fees DURING these transitions, you know, just slip it in there.  So much going on, who could keep up?

The change to MP was a wash in fees to us, but eBay made a bit more by bypassing some PayPal involvement.  The sales tax thing is mostly just a wash, but eBay is making bank on the other side of it with their accomplice, the city of San Jose, getting rebates there.

So if you look at the length of time that eBay has not been directly increasing fees to us until now, it might be as long as 2-3 years.  That's actually quite remarkable, considering they look to Amazon for an indication of what "the market will bear".  And Amazon makes eBay look like a bargain.

Amazon is such a weird place for me when it comes to comic sales haha. I've never taken it seriously. Anytime I've seen people sell on there, I've just always felt the ask prices were wonky and the laytout isn't conducive for selling this kind of stuff, like Ebay's is. I mean not everything obviously on the sale price parts, but yeah I don't know. Just not a fan lol. I'd definitely choose Ebay over Amazon.