Hulk #180 - Is it that red hot? 1 1

[360racer]

I think Hulk 180 now deserves its own thread.

Some say it’s the true first appearance of Wolverine, I know that it has been argued many times before but your thoughts?

My copy  

[musicmeta]

There is no argument. Hulk 180 IS the first appearance of Wolverine. 
Very nice copy. 
My 9.4 copy will have to suffice. 

[shadroch]

180 is his first cameo appearance

181 is his first full appearance

The argument is which should be worth more.

 

 

[MGsimba77]

Yes!

[Chillax23]

I’ll join in on the 180 fun with a group shot 😁

[OtherEric]

It looks like, as the #181 becomes impossible, the #180 is gaining momentum as an alternative... and, of course, the fact that it's the actual first appearance.  I'll need to dig my copy out of storage, even missing the marvel value stamp it's looking more and more like that was a well spent $5 back in the day.  (I've never had the #181)

[Hulksdaddy1]

IH180 is a great book.

IH181 will always be THE book.

[rexinnih]

I'll never CGC mine as I wanted one signed by Herb Trimpe on the last panel and found one a few years back. Had Roy Thomas sign also in 2019 and hope for an opportunity for John Romita Sr but that may never happen. 

My 181 is CGC 6.5 and lovingly displayed prominently. 

[Mr bla bla]

5 hours ago, rexinnih said:

I'll never CGC mine as I wanted one signed by Herb Trimpe on the last panel and found one a few years back. Had Roy Thomas sign also in 2019 and hope for an opportunity for John Romita Sr but that may never happen. 

My 181 is CGC 6.5 and lovingly displayed prominently. 

That is not cameo. That is the full appearance.

[Pantodude]

4 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

That is not cameo. That is the full appearance.

he's only shown in the final panel.  Can't get briefer than that.  That is textbook cameo.  Sorry.   You are getting confused with the fact that his whole body is shown?  But i agree 180 remains undervalued (relative to 181), especially because as far as cameos go, full-body cameos are very cool and significant.  And here, Wolverine dominates the entire panel!  As good as it gets as far as cameos go.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by Pantodude

[Lazyboy]

8 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

That is not cameo.

Correct, he was not an established character and couldn't possibly make a cameo appearance..

8 hours ago, Mr bla bla said:

That is the full appearance.

A single panel is always brief and never full, by definition.

[Pantodude]

5 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

he was not an established character and couldn't possibly make a cameo appearance.

Good point.  The real-life definition of "cameo" does indeed refer to the brief appearance of an already known (usually well-known) character.  That  real-life definition, together with how cool the Wolverine panel in 180 is, confirms that 180 remains woefully undervalued until it reaches at least 50% of 181's value across all grades.  

But we are in the comic book world, where year after year, issue after issue, "cameo" has been used to refer to the first but brief appearance of both new characters and pre-existing, well-known characters.  "Cameo" used for new characters includes Ms. Marvel 16 (Mystique), X-Men Annual 14 (Gambit), X-Factor 5 (Apocalypse), ASM #299 (Venom), X-Men #104 (Starjammers), etc.   So 180 is a cameo, albeit a more substantial one than many cameos for new characters b/c Wolverine actually strikes a full-body pose and says something meaningful in the panel!   

For better or worse, "cameo" has become its own term of art in this hobby.  But the issue becomes academic for Wolverine fans (except financially, of course) if they obtain the trilogy of 180, 181, and 182.  This is one of those situations like FF48-50 where nothing less than the three will do!    

Edited April 11, 2021 by Pantodude

[Lazyboy]

13 minutes ago, Pantodude said:

But we are in the comic book world, where year after year, issue after issue, "cameo" has been used to refer to the first but brief appearance of both new characters and pre-existing, well-known characters.

...

For better or worse, "cameo" has become its own term of art in this hobby.

Most people corrected that error many years ago. Somebody making an error decades ago is not a reason to perpetuate that error.

[Randall Ries]

11 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Most people corrected that error many years ago. Somebody making an error decades ago is not a reason to perpetuate that error.

I'm with you on that, at least. "Cameo" always meant Batman appearing in a Superman issue at the end of the story to tie up some loose ends. "Cameo" meant Fonzie making an appearance in "Joanie And Chachi". Cameo never meant a first appearance, full Monty or not. It's somewhat similar to CGC's insistence that Two Face's 1st "Silver Age" appearance since the Golden Age was Bat 234. It's his 1st Bronze Age appearance since the Golden Age. There was a Tec or Bat issue where someone impersonated Two Face. Suppose that could be his 1st and only Silver Age appearance. Someone needs to tell CGC again to stop with that label.

[360racer]

1 hour ago, Pantodude said:

Good point.  The real-life definition of "cameo" does indeed refer to the brief appearance of an already known (usually well-known) character.  That  real-life definition, together with how cool the Wolverine panel in 180 is, confirms that 180 remains woefully undervalued until it reaches at least 50% of 181's value across all grades.  

But we are in the comic book world, where year after year, issue after issue, "cameo" has been used to refer to the first but brief appearance of both new characters and pre-existing, well-known characters.  "Cameo" used for new characters includes Ms. Marvel 16 (Mystique), X-Men Annual 14 (Gambit), X-Factor 5 (Apocalypse), ASM #299 (Venom), X-Men #104 (Starjammers), etc.   So 180 is a cameo, albeit a more substantial one than many cameos for new characters b/c Wolverine actually strikes a full-body pose and says something meaningful in the panel!   

For better or worse, "cameo" has become its own term of art in this hobby.  But the issue becomes academic for Wolverine fans (except financially, of course) if they obtain the trilogy of 180, 181, and 182.  This is one of those situations like FF48-50 where nothing less than the three will do!    

I’m with you, personally I have had to have every Wolverine early comic and first appearances etc, that I managed to collect all three 180, 181, 182 in the same matching grade. I think it’s one of those things that requires the full trifecta to feel completeness. The future argument will always be, which one is it...

[360racer]

It’s the most searched first appearance topic.

 

Another view of things https://blog.gocollect.com/the-first-wolverine-cameo-incredible-hulk-180/

[Terry JSA]

17 hours ago, rexinnih said:

I'll never CGC mine as I wanted one signed by Herb Trimpe on the last panel and found one a few years back. Had Roy Thomas sign also in 2019 and hope for an opportunity for John Romita Sr but that may never happen. 

My 181 is CGC 6.5 and lovingly displayed prominently. 

Having it signed on the inside and out, especially with Herb Trimpe saying this IS the 1st appearance of Wolverine really makes this book special.

[MGsimba77]

22 hours ago, Hulksdaddy1 said:

IH180 is a great book.

IH181 will always be THE book.

The Pippen to the Jordan 

Edited April 12, 2021 by MGsimba77

[rexinnih]

But both important keys.

[rckstr1253]

Well I’m officially out of the running for a hulk 180.  These prices are ridiculous.