eBay Sellers of Okajima's Beware! 1 1

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, 50YrsCollctngCmcs said:

 It's also worth noting having grown up with grandparents who saw so many young people lose their lives in WWII they held an understandable animosity towards the war's aggressors. This is likely a tough issue for members of that generation to get their heads around.

Based on how the issue was addressed by President Reagan and many other members of the WWII generation back in the 1980s, I don't think that was true for many folks of the WWII generation.  Many understood the injustice.  For Supreme Court Chief Justice Earl Warren, who had been A.G. of California, internment was his greatest mistake.  He stated he had “since deeply regretted the removal order and my own testimony advocating it, because it was not in keeping with our American concept of freedom and the rights of citizens. ...  Whenever I thought of the innocent little children who were torn from home, school friends, and congenial surroundings, I was conscience stricken.  It was wrong to react so impulsively, without positive evidence of disloyalty. . . .” 

Understanding of the injustice was, however, probably easier for folks of WWII generation on the West Coast where Japanese Americans were prominent and respected members of the community before they were put in the camps.  It was a controversial move and there was opposition and protests to the incarceration and many folks outside of the Camps offered tangible support to their friends and neighbors in the Camps.  Worth noting, though, that Italian Americans and German Americans weren't treated like the Japanese Americans (and even Japanese Americans not on the West Coast weren't tossed in camps).

There were also many Japanese Americans who fought in WWII.  The all Japanese American 442nd was the most decorated unit in American military history.  Several members went on to become prominent U.S. Senators. 

Circling back to Okajima pedigree comics, I think that today the multiples are paid precisely because we do recognize the injustice of the internment.  That's what gives those comics their greatly enhanced value.   

Edited April 13, 2021 by sfcityduck

[adamstrange]

52 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Worth noting, though, that Italian Americans and German Americans weren't treated like the Japanese Americans (and even Japanese Americans not on the West Coast weren't tossed in camps).

 

The total number of enemy aliens interned by the Roosevelt Administration was 31,275. This included 10,905 Germans, 16,849 Japanese, and 3,278 Italians. The rest consisted of Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, and others, with Europeans constituting 46 percent of the total. Among the internees were more than 6,600 Latin Americans — approximately 4,100 Germans, 2,300 Japanese, and 300 Italians — who were rounded up by Latin American governments at the request of the Roosevelt administration and sent to the United States. All Japanese enemy aliens were released from internment by June 1946, but some Germans and other Europeans were kept until August 1948.  

This compares with over 6000 resident aliens interned during World War I, none of whom were Japanese since Japan was an ally.

Internees were distinct from people forced to leave the West Coast "exclusion zone".  These forced relocations involved over 100,000 Japanese and a few hundred Germans/Italians.  Those who were forced to leave the West Coast could receive free food and housing in a relocation camp but were free to leave, as did more than 30,000.  The relocation camps were only available to Japanese.

 Japanese were compensated by Congress in 1948, 1951, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1972, and 1978.  In 1988, Congress issued an official apology, and awarded $20,000 to each former internee and relocated person of Japanese descent.  No compensation or apology was ever given to European internees or forced locations. 

[Yorick]

Every time I read of more "banned for sale" items, I feel we are moving further down a path of repeating history (the bad parts).  There will always be those that want to make a shrine for the worst humanity has to offer, but I think they are the minority.

I am happy with the resolution for the art that was meant to be donated to a museum.  What about the artists in the camps that were trying to sell their art?  Are the families that have art from them no longer allowed to sell it?  The last quote (which appears to be FROM Nancy - recollecting something her grandfather said) is something Nancy needs to dwell on; “Artifacts have a really important meaning to not only me but to our community,” Ukai said. “There’s a greater understanding in the world now that things have histories, and that these histories have been erased or concealed or allowed to stand uncontested.”

Hypocrite?

[sfcityduck]

12 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

 

The total number of enemy aliens interned by the Roosevelt Administration was 31,275. This included 10,905 Germans, 16,849 Japanese, and 3,278 Italians. The rest consisted of Hungarians, Romanians, Bulgarians, and others, with Europeans constituting 46 percent of the total. Among the internees were more than 6,600 Latin Americans — approximately 4,100 Germans, 2,300 Japanese, and 300 Italians — who were rounded up by Latin American governments at the request of the Roosevelt administration and sent to the United States. All Japanese enemy aliens were released from internment by June 1946, but some Germans and other Europeans were kept until August 1948.  

This compares with over 6000 resident aliens interned during World War I, none of whom were Japanese since Japan was an ally.

Internees were distinct from people forced to leave the West Coast "exclusion zone".  These forced relocations involved over 100,000 Japanese and a few hundred Germans/Italians.  Those who were forced to leave the West Coast could receive free food and housing in a relocation camp but were free to leave, as did more than 30,000.  The relocation camps were only available to Japanese.

 Japanese were compensated by Congress in 1948, 1951, 1952, 1956, 1960, 1972, and 1978.  In 1988, Congress issued an official apology, and awarded $20,000 to each former internee and relocated person of Japanese descent.  No compensation or apology was ever given to European internees or forced locations. 

Don't know what you quoting, but there are a number of errors.

First, the term "enemy alien" meant non-American citizens who were nationals of Axis countries.  The majority of Japanese Americans thrown into the camps were not "enemy aliens" because they were American citizens having been born in the U.S.  I know of no "relocation" of Italian American or German American citizens.  The only exclusion order targeted Japanese Americans, both those who were U.S. citizens and those who were immigrants who had resided in the U.S. for most of their lives but (unlike Italians and German immigrants) were denied the opportunity to become U.S. citizens until explicitly racist immigration laws were repealed in 1952.  

Second, what you are calling "relocation camps" that Japanese-Americans were "free to leave" were actually incarceration camps that were ringed with barbed wire, armed guards, in some cases tanks, and which the internees were not "free to leave" at any time (in fact some were shot for getting too close to the fence).  The were only allowed to leave with government approval.  The forced relocation was a forced relocation to an incarceration camp.  Depending upon the camp and the time period the restrictions on the internees did vary.  

I could go on and on, but I don't see the point unless you tell me where you got the misinformation.  If you would like, I'd be happy to point you to a number of accurate sources, but I'm not sure there is a need on this thread.

 

[adamstrange]

You can read a summary of German internment on Wikipedia -- not the best source, but the only convenient one, I'm afraid.  It covers internement population and the much smaller number subject to removal from the exclusion zones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, adamstrange said:

You can read a summary of German internment on Wikipedia -- not the best source, but the only convenient one, I'm afraid.  It covers internement population and the much smaller number subject to removal from the exclusion zones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans

I think your source on German internment makes the point about the differences in treatment:

Quote

Among residents of the United States in 1940, more than 1.2 million persons had been born in Germany, 5 million had two native-German parents, and 6 million had one native-German parent. Many more had distant German ancestry. During WWII, the United States detained at least 11,000 ethnic Germans, overwhelmingly German nationals.^[3] The government examined the cases of German nationals individually, and detained relatively few in internment camps run by the Department of Justice, as related to its responsibilities under the Alien Enemies Act. To a much lesser extent, some ethnic German US citizens were classified as suspect after due process and also detained. ... The United States had allowed immigrants from both Germany and Italy to become naturalized citizens, which many had done by then.

A very tiny fraction ("some") of German-American citizens were incarcerated.  Only "relatively few" German nationals (who were free to become citizens of the U.S. if they were immigrants) were interned.  In contrast, the entire Japanese-American population on the West Coast, about 75% of which were U.S. citizens, the rest being long time immigrants precluded from obtaining citizenship due to racist laws, were "relocated" to camps. 

But, I wanted to know your source on the Japanese internment as it is inaccurate.  For example, the dates you edited in to your post to list "compensation" paid to Japanese American internees are also not accurate.  

Edited April 13, 2021 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, Yorick said:

 

I am happy with the resolution for the art that was meant to be donated to a museum.  What about the artists in the camps that were trying to sell their art?  Are the families that have art from them no longer allowed to sell it?  The last quote (which appears to be FROM Nancy - recollecting something her grandfather said) is something Nancy needs to dwell on; “Artifacts have a really important meaning to not only me but to our community,” Ukai said. “There’s a greater understanding in the world now that things have histories, and that these histories have been erased or concealed or allowed to stand uncontested.”

 

I agree.  For example, the Okajima pedigree has led to some wonderful threads on this site that have brought the history of the internment to light for a lot of readers who just didn't know about it.  

I also agree, as someone who has bought both art made in an internment camp and a graphic novel that survived the internment, that there's nothing wrong with the original artist or owner or their families selling the art.  And if the art entered the market on the up and up, I find any argument for banning the trade in that art as entirely unconvincing. Here's an example of internment art from my collection:

Edited April 13, 2021 by sfcityduck