They're Still Out There! 22 22

[sfcityduck]

16 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

My 8.5 copy (which is unpressed) also has a bit of color breakage along the spine; I think that was common for the Holyoke cover stock.

However, if I compare that book to mine, I would say that the grades should be the same. I don't think that mine is undergraded—I would have given it an 8.5, and that's what I would have graded the Promise copy. Is that because HA gets special treatment, or is it because they submitted the Promise multiple times until they caught a break and had two easy graders look at it? Only HA knows for sure.

Comparing those two books, I'm beginning to think this is a marketing promotion by CGC to encourage everyone to resubmit their books to take advantage of the new grading standards being established by this collection.

[Flex Mentallo]

40 minutes ago, buttock said:

I'm sure there are plenty of people building a war chest to get books.  But I'm more concerned about the people who don't need to liquidate assets to buy books.  You're going to see some bloodbaths.  

Or in my case - bubblebaths.

[skypinkblu]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:37 PM, lou_fine said:

 

Yes, when I saw the Promise Copy of this Miss Fury #2, I decided to take a quick look at the census and was rarther shocked to see that the highest graded copies were only 2 in CGC 8.0 and 2 in CGC 7.5, including one of the latter ones being your copy then.  

Checked my Mile High Catalogue and surprisingly, it would appear that the Miss Fury run was not listed in there which means that it must have been one of the runs snapped up by Burrell Rowe as partial payment for loaning Chuckles the $2K to purchase the entire Church collection in the first place, or dare we say was actually absent from the Church collection to start with.  If it was in there as part of the collection, I guess it must be held pretty tightly in the hands of a private collector because both the HA and CC archives don't indicate a single sale of a Church copy for any issues of Miss Fury.    

Here is mine, I bought it a long time ago in Chicago, maybe 15 years ago? Billy Parker @Straw-Man might remember, he walked me over to the booth to look at it before I bought it. It was a 6.5 and he suggested having it pressed, I couldn't even see what he was talking about, but he was right. I held out on that until maybe 5 years ago.  
So thank you for the help, Billy, I still love it.

Edited May 8, 2021 by skypinkblu

[Flex Mentallo]

1 minute ago, skypinkblu said:

Here is mine, I bought it a long time ago in Chicago, maybe 15 years ago? Billy Park @Straw-Man might remember, he walked me over to the booth to look at it before I bought it. It was a 6.5 and he suggested having it pressed, I couldn't even see what he was talking about, but he was right. I held out on that until maybe 5 years ago.  
So thank you for the help, Billy, I still love it.

A walk in the Park!

[skypinkblu]

2 minutes ago, Flex Mentallo said:

A walk in the Park!

Yes, you caught the typo before I could fix it, but that made it cuter;)_ 

[Straw-Man]

8 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Here is mine, I bought it a long time ago in Chicago, maybe 15 years ago? Billy Parker @Straw-Man might remember, he walked me over to the booth to look at it before I bought it. It was a 6.5 and he suggested having it pressed, I couldn't even see what he was talking about, but he was right. I held out on that until maybe 5 years ago.  
So thank you for the help, Billy, I still love it.

i remember sha!    soooo prettty!

[pemart1966]

1 hour ago, buttock said:

I'm sure there are plenty of people building a war chest to get books.  But I'm more concerned about the people who don't need to liquidate assets to buy books.  You're going to see some bloodbaths.  

 

[Flex Mentallo]

It's also legal to sell your bone marrow (for that absolutely must have book!)

[lou_fine]

On 5/3/2021 at 8:29 PM, Spyder! said:

Wow, those are some beautiful Planets. Very impressed with issue 38. There are only a handful of 9.8’s across the entire run. 

Yes indeed, as I've always loved the Planet 38 with the beautiful green cover, even though on most copies they do tend to look a bit faded.  

Thnak God I am not an OCD driven label chaser addict as I highly doubt that I would ever be able to afford the Promise Copy of Planet 38 since it's now  been slabbed as the single highest graded copy at CGC 9.8, and that big big number regardless of the book itself should really catapult this copy right into the stratosphere from a pricing point of view.  

Hence as for me, still holding out hope (albeit fading and starting to lose a bit of interest) that I might one day be able to obtain this copy of Planet 38 here since it should HOPEFULLY come at a much lower price point, considering that it's a full 8 or 9 condition grading levels below the Promise Copy, but still presents nicely relative to its assigned seemingly tight tight CGC grade:        

Of course, as they say, you can never really grade a book from a scan, as opposed to having the actual book in hand.  Although this is especially true for a book that appears to be tightly graded or even undergraded, I think this argument holds a lot less water when it comes to books that appears to be overgraded from a strict visual point of view which some from the Promise Collection would clearly appear to be.    

Edited May 8, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 5/5/2021 at 8:15 PM, szav said:

On 5/5/2021 at 8:13 PM, adamstrange said:

I mean is the top left corner or entire right edge of a book really that important to the grading anyway?

Have you ever considered the possibility that for the grading of the Promise Collection here, the corners, edges, and spines of these books have been pre-emptively deemed to be above the pay grade of the CGC graders themselves?  

Edited May 8, 2021 by lou_fine

[Spyder!]

22 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Yes indeed, as I've always loved the Planet 38 with the beautiful green cover, even though on most copies they do tend to look a bit faded.  

Thnak God I am not an OCD driven label chaser addict as I highly doubt that I would ever be able to afford the Promise Copy of Planet 38 since it's now  been slabbed as the single highest graded copy at CGC 9.8, and that big big number regardless of the book itself should really catapult this copy right into the stratosphere from a pricing point of view.  

Hence as for me, still holding out hope (albeit fading and starting to lose a bit of interest) that I might one day be able to obtain this copy of Planet 38 here since it should HOPEFULLY come at a much lower price point, considering that it's a full 8 or 9 condition grading levels below the Promise Copy, but still presents nicely relative to its assigned seemingly tight tight CGC grade:        

Of course, as they say, you can never really grade a book from a scan, as opposed to having the actual book in hand.  Although this is especially true for a book that appears to be tightly graded or even undergraded, I think this argument holds a lot less water when it comes to books that appears to be overgraded from a strict visual point of view which some from the Promise Collection would clearly appear to be.    

Oh I’m glad I’m not a label chaser too! I’m happy with my Planets which are about VG on average. I still love to see these high grade beauties when they come to market and dream .  I may take a shot at a book or two, but just like the Church Planet auction, I expect to get blown out of the water.

The Church #38 was graded 9.4 and sold in 2018 for $6k.  I’m very interested to see what this one sells for.

[lou_fine]

On 5/5/2021 at 11:09 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

I have to disagree with Mitch about 85% of the grades being spot on; most of the books I've looked at closely have been significantly overgraded. It looks to me like an auction where a lot of collectors with deep pockets are going to pay top dollar for books in the 8.5—9.2 range with labels in the 9.4—9.8 range. I would strongly advise any buyer in this auction not to ever crack out the books.

Sad to say, but probably very true, especially if you send some of these books back in as a straight "raw submission" without the pedigree designation. 

As for the actual books themselves, potential bidders that are actually looking at the books inside the slabs are probably the bottom feeders and very welcome to join in on the auction as they tend to generate a lot of the hype for the books.  In the final stetches of the game though, they are usually irrelevant in the equation as the only thing that matters in the end to the deep pocketed bidders and the whales is that big big number on the top left hand corner of the slab and they couldn't care less about the visual attributes of the underlying book itself.  

[Flex Mentallo]

47 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Have you ever considered the possibility that for the grading of the Promise Collection here, the corners, edges, and spines of these books have been pre-emptively deemed to be above the pay grade of the CGC graders themselves?  

Don't forget the extremely expensive colors!

[lou_fine]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:03 AM, lou_fine said:

Since grading is still really nothing more than just a subjective opinion at a particular point in time, as opposed to an exact science, it is only normal that we should expect to see some overgraded books along with some undergraded books.  

From an equal opportunity point of view, since this thread has highlighted some of the seemingly overgraded books from this collection, it is only fair that we should also be pointing out some of the seemingly undergraded books from this collection.  Not only common sense and past history, but the simple law of averages says that we should be seeing quite a few undergraded books by now and it would certainly be nice to also see some of these highlighted on this thread here.   

 

On 5/6/2021 at 10:28 AM, clarkkentdds said:

This is a beautiful collection of books. I agree they are overgraded.

 

On 5/6/2021 at 7:21 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

I have yet to find any undergraded books in the auction. I find them often enough on eBay—never on HA. Heritage may simply re-submit tightly graded books until they get a gift grade.

Resubmissions pretty much demolish the law of averages because tightly graded books get resubmitted but loosely graded books don't.

 

On 5/6/2021 at 8:07 PM, Zolnerowich said:

Very interesting observation. 

My observation is still the same as it was a couple of days ago from my post above.................why have there still been NO EXAMPLES of undergraded books from the Promise Collection to date so far as I am still waiting with bated breath.   

Totally agree that continual resubs of the same book will eventually demolish the law of averages over time, but this is clearly not the case here as this is a new OO collection which is being graded and slabbed for the first time.  So, with an independent and truly impartial grading system in place, it would only stand to reason that it would be statistically impossible to see several examples of overgraded books, but yet not a single example to date of a seemingly undergraded book to date so far.  We can certainly find and see many examples of seemingly undergraded books from outside this collection, but from the Promise Collection here.......nada!!!  

Which then leads me to think about all of the talk of potential conflict of interest on the boards here about 10 years ago.  Of course, it should be pointed out that what some see as potential conflict of interest are actually viewed more by growing and expanding corporations as business synergies just waiting to be unlocked, especially in a business which appears to be very much vertically integrated either directly or indirectly.  So, maybe what we are witnessing here is "the powers that be" are also viewing this Promise Collection as an once in a lifetime generational opportunity and are simply going all out and unlocking their business synergies to the max here.    

Edited May 8, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:35 AM, Artboy99 said:

does anyone know the history of this pedigree? Where it was found?

OMG....WTF.......I just checked my basement and some frigging no good thief must have broken in and absconded with some 5,000 odd books from my personal comic book collection here.    

Checked further and thank God they didn't get around to digging further down and finding the real good stuff.   

I so wish!!!  

Edited May 8, 2021 by lou_fine

[buttock]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

 

 

 

My observation is still the same as it was a couple of days ago from my post above.................why have there still been NO EXAMPLES of undergraded books from the Promise Collection to date so far as I am still waiting with bated breath.   

Totally agree that continual resubs of the same book will eventually demolish the law of averages over time, but this is clearly not the case here as this is a new OO collection which is being graded and slabbed for the first time.  So, with an independent and truly impartial grading system in place, it would only stand to reason that it would be statistically impossible to see several examples of overgraded books, but yet not a single example to date of a seemingly undergraded book to date so far.  We can certainly find and see many examples of seemingly undergraded books from outside this collection, but from the Promise Collection here.......nada!!!  

Which then leads to think about all of the talk of potential conflict of interest on the boards here about 10 years ago.  Of course, it should be pointed out that what some see as potential conflict of interest are actually viewed more by growing and expanding corporations as business synergies just waiting to be unlocked, especially in a business which appears to be very much vertically integrated either directly or indirectly.  So, maybe what we are witnessing here is "the powers that be" are also viewing this Promise Collection as an once in a lifetime generational opportunity and are simply going all out and unlocking their business synergies to the max here.    

How do you know none of them are under graded? You've got a million posts saying that there's no difference between a 9.6, 9.8, and 9.9. So many of the books in this collection are in that range, how can you say that they aren't under graded?

[buttock]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

 In the final stetches of the game though, they are usually irrelevant in the equation as the only thing that matters in the end to the deep pocketed bidders and the whales is that big big number on the top left hand corner of the slab and they couldn't care less about the visual attributes of the underlying book itself.  

What an awfully judgemental statement.

[szav]

Not that it matters in how one should approach these books, but I’m curious if the perception is that CGC is in a period of soft grading for everything, vs they’re just being easy on the Promise books right now.  

Prior to the unexpected explosion in comic prices, back when most people seemed to think comics of all eras would tank to a degree, the cynic in me expected CGC to loosen up grading as a means to incentivize people to submit during what was expected to be a period of light business.

My experience for the last decade or so is that things seem to cycle between 2-3 year periods of harsh and easy grading.  Again the cynic in me sees this as being a method to encourage people to resubmit books during the soft times.

Edited May 8, 2021 by szav

[buttock]

8 minutes ago, szav said:

Not that it matters in how one should approach these books, but I’m curious if the perception is that CGC is in a period of soft grading for everything, vs they’re just being easy on the Promise books right now.  

Prior to the unexpected explosion in comic prices, back when most people seemed to think comics of all eras would tank to a degree, the cynic in me expected CGC to loosen up grading as a means to incentivize people to submit during what was expected to be a period of light business.

My experience for the last decade or so is that things seem to cycle between 2-3 year periods of harsh and easy grading.  Again the cynic in me sees this as being a method to encourage people to resubmit books during the soft times.

Within the past few months there were threads getting locked down for people saying that CGC was grading too tight. More likely what you're seeing right now is inexperienced graders being brought in from the modern side to grade vintage books.

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yes indeed, as I've always loved the Planet 38 with the beautiful green cover, even though on most copies they do tend to look a bit faded.  

Thnak God I am not an OCD driven label chaser addict as I highly doubt that I would ever be able to afford the Promise Copy of Planet 38 since it's now  been slabbed as the single highest graded copy at CGC 9.8, and that big big number regardless of the book itself should really catapult this copy right into the stratosphere from a pricing point of view.  

Hence as for me, still holding out hope (albeit fading and starting to lose a bit of interest) that I might one day be able to obtain this copy of Planet 38 here since it should HOPEFULLY come at a much lower price point, considering that it's a full 8 or 9 condition grading levels below the Promise Copy, but still presents nicely relative to its assigned seemingly tight tight CGC grade:        

Of course, as they say, you can never really grade a book from a scan, as opposed to having the actual book in hand.  Although this is especially true for a book that appears to be tightly graded or even undergraded, I think this argument holds a lot less water when it comes to books that appears to be overgraded from a strict visual point of view which some from the Promise Collection would clearly appear to be.    

If that's a 9.8, then I need to resubmit every one of my 9.4s.