They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Funnybooks]

53 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Because it strongly resembles Al's style, and he was working for Iger at the time. Yes, he denied drawing a PL cover, but I don't believe anyone actually showed the PL 17 cover to him, because they already "knew" it was Baker. It's also possible that it was actually drawn as a splash page, but re-used as a cover. 

 

I appreciate your opinion but I can't entirely agree. Anything is possible as you postulate but I'm firmly entrenched in the Baker camp with a likely assist from a studio mate or two The chances this cover image was originally created as a splash ( by Al)  but ultimately used as a cover is a thin hypothesis but not implausible. 

[Sarg]

Granted, the image on the left by Feldstein is 2-3 years after the image on the right, but the face, eyebrows, lips, head, body, and folds are very similar. They are not the way that Baker drew eyes, lips, heads, breasts, bodies, and folds. Fingers? Yes, Al's fingers are different, but so are Matt's when they are properly inked (see Seven Seas #4 for example). Many Iger shop covers and panels completely butcher people's fingers. 

 

[Sarg]

And here are a bevy of known Feldstein women from 1947-50 compared with a bevy of known Baker women from roughly the same time frame. In my opinion, the similarities of Al's style to PL 17 are much closer than Baker's. Also, Baker's poses are usually a lot more dynamic than the cover of PL 17. 

 

[skypinkblu]

I still don't see it, I think Thornton on the Flamingo strips did a great imitation of Baker and those poses were sexy, but not always so dynamic.

 Feldstein and I went to the same art school many years apart, but I remember seeing his Mad Magazines. These don't look like the Phantom Lady either...but any of these

covers could have been a compilation, comic book artists and renaissance artists had a lot of similarities...only comic book artists didn't get the recognition they should have, which is a shame.

https://www.google.com/search?q=al+feldstein+mad+magazine&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798&sxsrf=ALeKk02BacwzgaGjO2JVhr9dVFXhQ6LonA:1621203129547&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=Gppl3G55hmWWWM%2C6ldu3mamD17scM%2C%2Fm%2F06c5f2&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kR9dHyv4cI7OMma1t79nrZLtpA47A&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwinvZSlnM_wAhUPTt8KHYg3BPYQ_B16BAgtEAE#imgrc=Gppl3G55hmWWWM

[skypinkblu]

https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjn45ztnc_wAhXEBt8KHd50DXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFC3uwFYt7sBYKjPAWgAcAB4AIABQogBQpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=XZqhYKfBBsSN_Abe6bWoBw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8rf6nc_wAhVCwCkDHUgdDMYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1Cy7AJYyqQDYKWuA2gFcAB4AIABrwGIAaEIkgEEMTUuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=eJqhYNTWMcKAp8kPyLqwsAw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798

I used to own some of the Lorna Doone pages, I don't remember them being "dynamic".

 

[Sarg]

And here's Matt's splash interior to PL 14 on the right compared with PL 17. Similar, but her chest is completely different. 

 

 

Splash page to PL 18 is a patented Baker pose. Note her fingers. The story ends with PL on a dock, so perhaps 17's cover was intended for this story. Since Iger assigned different inkers to butcher Matt's pencils in each issue, there isn't a consistently drawn PL in each issue. Sometimes the inking is so bad you can't tell it's Matt's pencils. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Sarg
typo

[linmoth]

I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation! Or the one in the splash had a reduction! 

[aardvark88]

7 minutes ago, linmoth said:

I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation!

Augmentation = Kamen or Al Feldstein.

[comicnoir]

7 minutes ago, linmoth said:

I think the PL on the cover had some breast augmentation! Or the one in the splash had a reduction! 

There are these ppl called art directors who come in and look over the shoulder of the artist and says "make them bigger, it's the cover"

[N e r V]

I’m just putting together a mental picture of Al saying I didn’t draw it with a fan insisting no you’re wrong you did do it! 

I don’t think 6 shots of Spirytus Stawski could get me to see that as a Feldstein cover even if he didn’t deny it but what the hell it could be worse and someone could try and say it’s a Kirby piece…

[comicnoir]

34 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjn45ztnc_wAhXEBt8KHd50DXUQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++Matt+Baker&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFC3uwFYt7sBYKjPAWgAcAB4AIABQogBQpIBATGYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ8ABAQ&sclient=img&ei=XZqhYKfBBsSN_Abe6bWoBw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjU8rf6nc_wAhVCwCkDHUgdDMYQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=flamingo+strips++John+thornton&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJ1Cy7AJYyqQDYKWuA2gFcAB4AIABrwGIAaEIkgEEMTUuMZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1nwAEB&sclient=img&ei=eJqhYNTWMcKAp8kPyLqwsAw&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS798US798

I used to own some of the Lorna Doone pages, I don't remember them being "dynamic".

 

I have a handful of Baker Flamingos, and one Thorton. Wish I had more (Baker).

[waaaghboss]

8 minutes ago, comicnoir said:

There are these ppl called art directors who come in and look over the shoulder of the artist and says "make them bigger, it's the cover"

 

[comicnoir]

Oh no, now I gotta throw salt in my eyes.

[skypinkblu]

1 hour ago, Sarg said:

And here's Matt's splash interior to PL 14 on the right compared with PL 17. Similar, but her chest is completely different. 

 

 

Splash page to PL 18 is a patented Baker pose. Note her fingers. The story ends with PL on a dock, so perhaps 17's cover was intended for this story. Since Iger assigned different inkers to butcher Matt's pencils in each issue, there isn't a consistently drawn PL in each issue. Sometimes the inking is so bad you can't tell it's Matt's pencils. 

See, that is the difference, I was looking at her mouth and eyebrows, not her chest ...not that there is anything wrong with it;)  Her leg is way out of proportion on the bottom page, her calf is too big and her thigh is way too long on the leg that is raised and the guy with the sword has creepy fingers.

 

[Sarg]

53 minutes ago, N e r V said:

I’m just putting together a mental picture of Al saying I didn’t draw it with a fan insisting no you’re wrong you did do it! 

I don’t think 6 shots of Spirytus Stawski could get me to see that as a Feldstein cover even if he didn’t deny it but what the hell it could be worse and someone could try and say it’s a Kirby piece…

Al never said, "I didn't draw it."

[Funnybooks]

55 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

Augmentation = Kamen or Al Feldstein.

Paging Dr. Feldstein

[N e r V]

7 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Al never said, "I didn't draw it."

I did say a mental picture of and not an actual picture of…

[tth2]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

 The Promise books are being auctioned off on Heritage, not Comiclink.  All of them will go up on the floor for live bidding, where they will go up sequentially so you won't be trying to juggle multiple extended bids at the same time.

Even any that might be put into the internet-only last day will still get the benefit of live bidding. How is that different from CC's extended bidding?

[tth2]

6 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

You really think that was because of CC and not Jon? 

 

[Mmehdy]

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I guess it's really a case of to each, their own, but personally I would have much prefer the books were going through CC as opposed to HA.  

Any bets that if the books were going through CC, there would be far far fewer cases of "damaged" books encased in what are rather obviously and sometimes blatantly overgraded holders.  Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place.  Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house.  

As for an auction catalog, CC also produces one for their Event Auctions like the one they did for the Jon Berk Auction, but definitely not as nicely laid out and formated like the one from Heritage.  As for their auction listing descriptions, they are most definitely the worst by far as in most cases, they just simply list the title, grade, PQ, CGC label notes, and then sort of expect the book to sell itself after that.  Definitely not the all out hype that CL does when it comes to their auction listing descriptions for their Featured Auction books, whereby you are almost tempted to throw in a bid after reading that flowery overblown description of theirs, even though you might have had zero interest in the book to start with. 

Being a bit selfish though, I guess there's also a personal reason why I would have prefer the books to have gone through CC, as opposed to going through Heritage.  I believe the auction would have been done in a slightly different format and rollout which might possibly have made it a bit easier for some of the smaller players with shallower pockets to have a better shot at getting some of these books here.  I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

 

I think if every book is pressed in this promise collection , it will  set a precedent for the other auction houses to follow by necessity. I do not think any serious GA collector today, after the last couple years is gonna leave any money on the table. Especially with auctions fees and grading fees and pancake pressing fees and rushed grading fess..etc.

 Especially for a major GA collections which has yet to be graded or upgraded with the new acceptable restoration. What I do see is 18 month window to revisit the "church" type collection that many on the boards were not here when those and the SF collections were released.I think every GA collector should attempt to find out what is in the collection, what do you have to acquire to make your GA collection that much better.

Collector's who cannot afford or want to pay the price, still should get the fallout of the under graded copies which are gonna be let go after getting the book from the promise collection. Why hold on to it when you own the best, plus you can sell and get more "promise".

Lou, I do not think it matters who it went to CC,HA or CL it is for the very smart GA collectors not gonna make a difference. I prefer of course the HA format of bidding not every 3 mins etc and just buying the darn thing. I think also there is not contest on websites and live auctions which can witness. Yes a bigger platform but also more accessible to everyone and with more eyes on the auction the better.

 I have said this before on early posts, CC and CL should give Ha say 10% of the profit and run their auctions on their platform. Otherwise, you will continue to see Ha break world record comic auctions totals 2/3 times a year and CC/CL totals are just gonna be a blip.