They're Still Out There! 22 22

[jimbo_7071]

7 hours ago, lou_fine said:

 

Are the two of you also one of these grumpy old men from way back in the day before Heritage arrived on the scene back in 2002 and before Matt took over the grading side of the business back in 2016?  

If so, it's no longer the Stone Ages as we are now into the 21st century where it's all about not only the square corners, but also flat, flat, flat like a tasty yummy pancake.  So, if you even dare to turn in one of those co-called unicorns of yours with the plump rounded spines, just know that you and your book will be taken out behind the woodshed and given your just and deserved dues upon being graded.      

Matt is involved with grading? I though he was only involved with pressing. That explains a lot. Hasn't he be caught shill bidding before? I don't think integrity is in his DNA.

[tth2]

3 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

I do not think any serious GA collector today, after the last couple years is gonna leave any money on the table.

I guess I'm not a serious GA collector. 

[Rip]

2 minutes ago, tth2 said:

I guess I'm not a serious GA collector. 

Please let me know when your next OO HG Golden Age collection is up for sale. 

[tth2]

3 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

 I have said this before on early posts, CC and CL should give Ha say 10% of the profit and run their auctions on their platform.

You are an even worse businessman than Lou_Fine! 

You should apply for the position of Burger King's head of marketing, and pitch your big promotion idea: "Just Go to McDonald's!"

 

[entalmighty1]

9 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

I think if every book is pressed in this promise collection , it will  set a precedent for the other auction houses to follow by necessity. I do not think any serious GA collector today, after the last couple years is gonna leave any money on the table. Especially with auctions fees and grading fees and pancake pressing fees and rushed grading fess..etc.

I can't imagine any business that wants to be successful looking at a product, deciding the value can be increased significantly with a tiny investment, then choosing not to make that investment. That's why they're being pressed.  Heritage told the owners (presumably) that they would see more return if the books were pressed/cleaned/both before they were graded and auctioned.  Even if they aren't on consignment, and HA bought the collection outright, the process is the same.  More money = good.

To me, the issue isn't pressing, it's the fact that every party involved has a vested interest in the success of each other.

If I was allowed to grade my own tests, I would have been a Rhodes Scholar.

 

Disclaimer:  The books are incredible.  I love looking at them.  I'm glad they are being brought to market.  I'm not doom and glooming.  I'm not knocking the concept of pressing or grading.  I'm not knocking money.  I'm not knocking buyers, or sellers, or wishful thinkers.  I love everyone, except @october.

[MrBedrock]

16 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Ummmm..................I believe you are not living in the real world here and probably in some kind of idealistic dream world if you actually believe this collection of books is sitting parked at the end of the line behind all of the other books that CCS and CGC received for pressing and grading prior to getting these books in from the Promise Collection here. If anything, these books will be both pressed and graded according to the rollout schedule which Heritage wants, as opposed to being done based upon CCS's and CGC's schedule.  

In fact, I actually believe there is a very very strong chance here that the books posted so far from the Promise Collection here did not even follow the standard operational process that all other regular books would have taken when submitted into CCS and CGC for processing, and were actually given their own unique processing flow.  

Do you also believe that 5G is responsible for Covid?

[entalmighty1]

1 minute ago, MrBedrock said:

Do you also believe that 5G is responsible for Covid?

Speaking as someone intimiately familiar with this subject, from a virology standpoint...you should definitely not connect to 5G if you want to bee Covid free. 

[tth2]

1 hour ago, MrBedrock said:

Do you also believe that 5G is responsible for Covid?

Silly, everyone knows that Covid is responsible for 5G!

[waaaghboss]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

Silly, everyone knows that Covid is responsible for 5G!

Covid has 5 letters in its name.  5g.  It's like the illuminati isn't even trying anymore!

[jimjum12]

1 minute ago, waaaghboss said:

Covid has 5 letters in its name.  5g.  It's like the illuminati isn't even trying anymore!

I'm just trying to figure out where the "23" fits in ? GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[Rip]

6 minutes ago, jimjum12 said:

I'm just trying to figure out where the "23" fits in ? GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I can't tell you how many times I've had to bite my tongue reading some of these posts from Sculder and Mully.

[lou_fine]

On 5/15/2021 at 7:34 PM, tth2 said:

On 5/15/2021 at 11:05 AM, lou_fine said:

Perfect examples being when Brian was talking about not even being able to afford a corner of these first group of books posted here and Matt going on about the perfect square corners, it would have been a nice touch if they could have flashed pictures of the covers and zoomed in on the corners of the 2 Subby's and the Sun Girl at that point.

I guess it's easy to tell who here has never worked in the private sector.

So, I guess you saying that those who work in the private sector don't have a sense of humor at all.  

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

21 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I also like their 3-minute extended auction format because that 3 minutes is actually a very very long time in the midst of a live auction and I remember winning almost all of my Berk books based upon last minute impulses because that's more than enough time to analyze and decide if you are going to bump your bid up to the next level or not.  

 The Promise books are being auctioned off on Heritage, not Comiclink.  All of them will go up on the floor for live bidding, where they will go up sequentially so you won't be trying to juggle multiple extended bids at the same time.

Even any that might be put into the internet-only last day will still get the benefit of live bidding. How is that different from CC's extended bidding?

Not sure if you ever participated in a CC Event Auction with the multiple 3-minute extended bidding time periods, but it's completely different from the usual live sequential auction format that Heritage uses.  

With the sequential one and done format before moving onto the next lot, you don't actually have that much time to decide if you are going to bump the bid up to the next increment or not.  I remember in the Jon Berk auction, every single lot that I won took over 10 mintues of actual extended bidding time and the one lot that I really went after took almost 30 minutes of actual extended bidding time.  For a smaller time player like me and possibly others who can't throw around 6-figures or even 5-figures for a single comic book, these 3-minute extended bidding time periods gives you lots of time to mull over your decision to raise the bid up to the next increment or not, and something which the HA sequential format does not afford you.  

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

22 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Of course, it would also appear that both auctions had completely different goals in mind.  One of the main purposes of the Jon Berk Auction as he himself had stated at the time, was to pass his collection into the hands of the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for, similar to how he had been the caretaker for the books for all of those long decades.  With the Heritage Auction of the Promise Collection, I get the distinct feeling that even though it was already an once in a lifetime generational GA OO collection that would have set record prices and also had an overwhelming number of highest graded copies in there right from the start, that was still not good enough for them.  Even with the record dollars expected for the books as they were, if there was even a chance of squeezing that one more last dollar out of the book, risk of potential damage to the book be dammed, let's go ahead and do it.    

Hence, my personal take on it is that if the collection had gone through CC, it would have been better for the comic book hobby place, whereas by going through Heritage, it's better for the comic book marketplace.  

Expand  

You really think that was because of CC and not Jon? 

No, not CC because in this case here, it was most likely really more Jon (long time old school comic book collector) working in conjunction with Fishler (long time old school comic book dealer).  

The auction house will always do what the consignor wants, but often times the consignor will choose the auction house and the people there where he feels they speak the same language and can easily understand one another, especially if they have had past dealings going back decades.  

[lou_fine]

11 hours ago, tth2 said:

14 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

 I have said this before on early posts, CC and CL should give Ha say 10% of the profit and run their auctions on their platform.

You are an even worse businessman than Lou_Fine! 

Says the man who is happily willing to leave easy money on the table for the next person to pick up.  

[lou_fine]

4 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

21 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Ummmm..................I believe you are not living in the real world here and probably in some kind of idealistic dream world if you actually believe this collection of books is sitting parked at the end of the line behind all of the other books that CCS and CGC received for pressing and grading prior to getting these books in from the Promise Collection here. If anything, these books will be both pressed and graded according to the rollout schedule which Heritage wants, as opposed to being done based upon CCS's and CGC's schedule.  

In fact, I actually believe there is a very very strong chance here that the books posted so far from the Promise Collection here did not even follow the standard operational process that all other regular books would have taken when submitted into CCS and CGC for processing, and were actually given their own unique processing flow.  

Do you also believe that 5G is responsible for Covid?

I would assume the answer is "Yes" for you if you actually believe the Promise Collection books are going through the CCS and CGC processes and being given the same treatment in terms of turnaround times and pricing as all of the other regular submittors.  

If so, then I guess you must also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.  

[lou_fine]

23 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Think back to the big Jon Berk Auction on CC back in 2017 when we had this wonderful 150+ page "group hug" thread on these very same boards here and as far as I can remember, not a single post about possibly overgraded books while the auction was taking place.  Of course, no real incentive there for CGC since CC is a competitor to their very own affiliated auction house.  

Decided to take a quick flashback to the big Jon Berk Auction thread to see what the ambiance was like in that thread there from 2017.  

Looks like it was actually 175 pages, with virtually all of the front end of the thread being a rather joyful and happy sharing of Berk's wonderful and magnificant collection, especially with respect to the earlier HTF GA books whether they were in low grade condition or even in restored condition.  Don't have time to reread everything, but I clearly don't remember any controversy or the same angst about the possibility of overgraded books that we seem to be seeing in this thread here so far. 

In fact, the only time that grading came into question was towards the end of the thread after the auction was already over and the issue then was with respect to the books from the Jon Berk Collection being UNDERGRADED, as opposed to being overgraded.  Especially when dealers like Steve Ritter and his Worldwide company by then were already doing either the straight resub or CPR on the books for higher grades and then reselling them for higher dollars.  Surprisingly, we even saw long time boardies like @buttock and not so surprisingly, the usual CGC acolyte juice drinkers who always hold the viewpoint that CGC can do no wrong actually take the slant in that particular case there, that it only made perfect business sense for CGC to have undergraded the Berk collection:   

On 7/21/2017 at 4:19 PM, buttock said:

CGC has a massive interest in undergrading books, particularly those with "improvable" defects.  If you owned a business, would you rather have 2800 transactions or 2800 transactions with another 4-500 repeat transactions that use your sister service for even more transactions?   The "point" of CGC varies depending on your perspective.  For a collector it's an objective assessment.  For an employee or owner/investor, the point is to make money.   

I guess this time it makes perfect business sense for CGC to lean the other way since it's really "all within the family".  

Edited May 17, 2021 by lou_fine

[Straw-Man]

16 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Matt is involved with grading? I though he was only involved with pressing. That explains a lot. Hasn't he be caught shill bidding before? I don't think integrity is in his DNA.

i was with him in feb; saw his dna test.  99% dork, 1% integrity.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by Straw-Man

[Straw-Man]

13 hours ago, tth2 said:

You are an even worse businessman than Lou_Fine! 

You should apply for the position of Burger King's head of marketing, and pitch your big promotion idea: "Just Go to McDonald's!"

 

shot coke zero out the ol' schnozz.  tks.

[Straw-Man]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

I would assume the answer is "Yes" for you if you actually believe the Promise Collection books are going through the CCS and CGC processes and being given the same treatment in terms of turnaround times and pricing as all of the other regular submittors.  

If so, then I guess you must also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy.  

wait a minute, just what are you implying here????