They're Still Out There! 22 22

[szav]

1 minute ago, sfcityduck said:

They sure seem to be lobbying for Okajima quality multiples based on the story of this collection.  Which are what?  10x+?

Yes but the camp Okajimas that go for 10 times what equivalently graded  copies go for have generally been lesser desired mid grade books with low base value, not highest graded, key, or classic books with a lot of built in value to begin with.

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, ThothAmon said:

2 hours ago, linmoth said:

I’m not sure but I don’t think they were talking about a Batman 1 9.4 from the Promise Collection but the one HA sold awhile back.

You might be right but it seemed to me he was talking about this collection. 

I am quite sure that I heard Brian's comment being past tense as from a few months ago and I am also quite sure they were referring to this newsbreaking HA sale here:    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-dc-1940-cgc-nm-94-white-pages/a/7239-91027.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Sold for $2,220,000 in a Heritage Signature Auction back in January of 2021.

Edited May 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[linmoth]

What seems a little odd to me is that they bagged and boarded the books a couple of years ago but had no knowledge of the value of the books. Just sayin!

[lou_fine]

4 minutes ago, linmoth said:

What seems a little odd to me is that they bagged and boarded the books a couple of years ago but had no knowledge of the value of the books. Just sayin!

Need to listen to it again, but I believe they said it was about 20 years ago.  

Absolutely love their condition grading of the books to be as VG copies only and found that to be rather hilarious.   

Now, that is what I would call clear and definite UNDERGRADING in terms of this Promise Collection here.    

Edited May 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[linmoth]

I’m really glad they are going through HA. We’ll get a nice catalog and you know they will do a first class job! The collection deserves that!

[linmoth]

Wish all the books I’ve bought in the past looked like that whether graded VG or Mint by the sellers.

[lou_fine]

16 minutes ago, szav said:

19 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

They sure seem to be lobbying for Okajima quality multiples based on the story of this collection.  Which are what?  10x+?

Yes but the camp Okajimas that go for 10 times what equivalently graded  copies go for have generally been lesser desired mid grade books with low base value, not highest graded, key, or classic books with a lot of built in value to begin with.

If it's 10 times, they are clearly referring to the Camp copies with all of that writing on the cover, as opposed to the regular Okijima copies without the obtrusive writing which sells for a much lower multiple.  Like they say, I guess it's the story behind the pedigree that's currently bringing up the prices, as opposed to the obtrusive writing all over the cover that would otherwise bring the prices down.  

On the other hand, I like Matt's reference to the Recil Macon pedigree and in one case writing his name on every single page as being a little bit too much.  I guess this is why the Macon's are probabluy knocked down to the mid-grade range as they are seen more as a defect as opposed to a positive pedigree trait.  I guess they also don't have as strong of a story behind them like the Camp copies which recently have been able to overcome the excessive writing defects to sell for 10X multiple guides. 

Like the Camp copies, maybe the sun will come out one day and shine their bright light onto the Macon's but that day has not yet come.   

[Mmehdy]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

They sure seem to be lobbying for Okajima quality multiples based on the story of this collection.  Which are what?  10x+?

Could be but, I think them putting some of the books in the weekly auction  to promote that  platform will enable some of us on the board to score a win on a less format and we could aftter  80 weeks really score. public  ha is  putting a 18 month estimation for the time the collection will be  completely sold. Where the real questions exist as to why the "run" gaps". They seem to admit the possibly that there could be either more material out there or that some went missing..

We will have to see how this plays out. I am glad this video and info is out in the open.

[lou_fine]

18 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

+1, as Matt Nelson Promises:

 

 

Thanks for posting this as I watched this video last night and thought it was rather fun and enjoyable to watch. 

I found it to be a complete contrast to that video by Darren Adams on his Action 1 where I felt it was just 2 carnival barkers with shifty eyes trying to pull a fast one on you by leaving out big gaps in their timeline of what took place with the book.  Definitely had to go into the shower and give myself a deep cleansing after watching that one there.    

I was initially turned off by the title of the show, "Old School Comics", as that always brings up images of raw comics like what Bangzoom was posting in his thread at the start.  I thought it would have been more like "New School Comics" with all of the CGC 9.6's and CGC 9.8's posted slabs because that's really more like the CGC generation of comic book collecting.  

In the end, I found it fun and enjoyable to watch because instead of the "hard sell" approach like Adams, it was more just like 4 comic book guys geeking out over what I have already called on more than one occasion here as a once in a lifetime generational OO collection.  This Promise Collection here will definitely be a watershed moment in terms of the GA collecting marketplace.  A bit similar in vein to the Jon Berk Collection which I sort of thought as an once in a lifetime generational opportunity for all types of comic book collectors (i.e. big time investors and small time bottom feeders) to purchase truly HTF GA books in all condition levels that they might not otherwise ever see again in any type of condition.  Yet quite different in the sense that the Promise Collection books are in pure HG condition, and coupled with the way they are going to be rolled out, really geared much more for the comic book whales and deep pocketed collectors and investors only.    

The one part that I found to be very interesting and rather informative (or disinformative) was at the 11 and 12-minute mark where there seem to be some question as to which one of the brothers was the comic book collector and which one had survived the war.  I guess this still needs to cleared up since Brian's take on it was the complete opposite of the way they ran the story in Bleeding Cool with Junie (supposedly the younger brother) being the comic book collector.  I guess this story will all work itself out in time.   

Edited May 14, 2021 by lou_fine

[szav]

5 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

one part that I found to be very interesting and rather informative

I appreciate the slight tangent they went off on saying that the Mile Highs still had a bit of a superior almost intangible ‘right off the newsstand” feel that the Promise books couldn’t quite match.
 No knock on the promise books at all, they still gushed on and on with praise for over an hour about them, but the interview here comes across a bit more genuine and little  less salesman like (though it had a bit of that element too, and there’s nothing wrong with that, it is the point after all) with them making that comparison.

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

If it's 10 times, they are clearly referring to the Camp copies with all of that writing on the cover, as opposed to the regular Okijima copies without the obtrusive writing which sells for a much lower multiple.  Like they say, I guess it's the story behind the pedigree that's currently bringing up the prices, as opposed to the obtrusive writing all over the cover that would otherwise bring the prices down.  

On the other hand, I like Matt's reference to the Recil Macon pedigree and in one case writing his name on every single page as being a little bit too much.  I guess this is why the Macon's are probabluy knocked down to the mid-grade range as they are seen more as a defect as opposed to a positive pedigree trait.  I guess they also don't have as strong of a story behind them like the Camp copies which recently have been able to overcome the excessive writing defects to sell for 10X multiple guides. 

Like the Camp copies, maybe the sun will come out one day and shine their bright light onto the Macon's but that day has not yet come.   

I've personally never paid more for a pedigree because it was a pedigree. Some pedigrees, like Mile High and Spokane, are fresh-looking books with nice pages; those are the qualities I'm willing to pay for. Given two books with equally nice pages and equivalent eye appeal, the pedigree wouldn't be worth any more to me than the non-ped. Some non pedigree books likely came from very nice collections that happened to come to market before pedigrees were a "thing."

[N e r V]

49 minutes ago, szav said:

I appreciate the slight tangent they went off on saying that the Mile Highs still had a bit of a superior almost intangible ‘right off the newsstand” feel that the Promise books couldn’t quite match.
 No knock on the promise books at all, they still gushed on and on with praise for over an hour about them, but the interview here comes across a bit more genuine and little  less salesman like (though it had a bit of that element too, and there’s nothing wrong with that, it is the point after all) with them making that comparison.

Mile High will always have the advantage of being the first big explosion on the then young collecting field. It had rippling effects like no other pedigree since. It’s the Action comics #1 of pedigrees and given the fact everyone seems to measure their high grade books against them that says enough for it. I can’t think of any other pedigree that inserted itself so deeply into the hobby with grading standards.

[jimjum12]

2 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Mile High will always have the advantage of being the first big explosion on the then young collecting field. It had rippling effects like no other pedigree since. It’s the Action comics #1 of pedigrees and given the fact everyone seems to measure their high grade books against them that says enough for it. I can’t think of any other pedigree that inserted itself so deeply into the hobby with grading standards.

... plus the sheer depth and breadth of the Church horde leaves everything else in the rear view mirror ... Twice as many as the Crippen pile and four times the volume of this one. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[N e r V]

Just now, jimjum12 said:

... plus the sheer depth and breadth of the Church horde leaves everything else in the rear view mirror ... Twice as many as the Crippen pile and four times the volume of this one. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Yeah that’s a good point. It was a very unusual way that it got collected. He had his own reasons for sure but it was as if he was deliberately (which as we know he wasn’t) saving a entire period of comics history in the best possible shape he could. Gaines did that too but in a tiny way compared to Church but in his case it was deliberate.

Biggest miss in pedigree and comics history was he didn’t live to speak to the entire generations of comic fans/collectors he impacted. Would have been fantastic to pick his brain on what he did…

 

[Mmehdy]

45 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I've personally never paid more for a pedigree because it was a pedigree. Some pedigrees, like Mile High and Spokane, are fresh-looking books with nice pages; those are the qualities I'm willing to pay for. Given two books with equally nice pages and equivalent eye appeal, the pedigree wouldn't be worth any more to me than the non-ped. Some non pedigree books likely came from very nice collections that happened to come to market before pedigrees were a "thing."

I agree with you buy the book not the label. However where I disagree is the there is actual  historical value of a pedigree book. It is special and does have additional value to me as a long term TCBC. So I understand your postion, but I disagree with it, I woud take the Pedigree book every time on a same grade situation and even pay more for that GA Comic book.

 I see your point and concern on 5x or 10x market value just becasue of the Label...but again I buy book first....

[buttock]

49 minutes ago, N e r V said:

Mile High will always have the advantage of being the first big explosion on the then young collecting field. It had rippling effects like no other pedigree since. It’s the Action comics #1 of pedigrees and given the fact everyone seems to measure their high grade books against them that says enough for it. I can’t think of any other pedigree that inserted itself so deeply into the hobby with grading standards.

I don't know of anything in any other hobby that rivals the magnitude of that find.  Sure, you can on occasion find a copy that's nicer.  But 98% of the time the Mile High is the nicest in both structural grade and preservation.  Add in the fact that it has almost every book published during the era, including ALL of the big keys.  It's just mind blowing.  Especially when you consider the space necessary to keep all the books.  This isn't coins or baseball cards.  Literally a full basement.  

[sfcityduck]

1 minute ago, buttock said:

  Literally a full basement closet.

Fixed, based on my recollection of Chuck's description.  Edgar stacked them 10 feet high.  They covered every inch of Chuck's apartment based on the famous picture, but Chuck only stacked them a foot or two high.

[Dr. Love]

Locked Closet.  To keep out the thieves  interlopers  wife and children

Edgar - The Family Man!

[sfcityduck]

2 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Where the real questions exist as to why the "run" gaps". They seem to admit the possibly that there could be either more material out there or that some went missing..

We will have to see how this plays out. I am glad this video and info is out in the open.

Anyone know where that quote about the run gap was in the video?  

[vheflin]

Family's probably in court fighting over the dough.

Imagine the tax bill.