Lignin removal and effects on brittleness 2 2

[427Impaler]

I posted some results a while back regarding an experimental process to remove lignin from paper without damage to the book.  Work continues and third party testing is underway, a couple of interesting tidbits have come up which I thought I would share. 
 

First off I will strongly state this is a conservational process, no bleach or solvents or UV rays or anything that would adversely affect the paper in any way, the entire point of the exercise is to give and extremely long life to artifacts printed on lignin rich pulp, basically anything from 1850 to about 1990. I noticed while conserving a Strange Worlds #4 in your collection an improvement in suppleness to the paper after treating it, which was exciting as the book had become extremely brittle, in fact that was the reason for the conservation.  It wasn’t a shocking difference but noticeable. 
 

While testing is going on I decided to see just how big of an effect I can exact on a brittle page.  It is common sense that if you war removing something (say lignin) from paper; then afterward you would expect some thinning of the paper.  A paper mike confirmed this, not a big deal if working on a nice thick DC GA book but a concern on a SA Marvel for sure.  So we decided to introduce a few things immediately after the lignin extraction, at a time that the paper is in a “receptive” state chemically.  So the obvious additives would be ph buffers and fixative, and also a concoction we thought may improve flexibility a bit.  Here is how it went:

 

this is a very brittle piece of cover.  Any handling resulted in nice brown flakes floating down to the floor

first we did the lignin removal.  There was a noticeable improvement in suppleness and the piece could now be carefully handled.

next in went the buffers, fixative, and “special sauce”.  Very light press and the piece looks very much different than how it started 

Torture test time.   Let’s roll it into a tight tube!

Aaaaaand now roll it in the other direction!

not a piece came off.  Fold it?  Ok!

If you look at he area I folded it is in the most fragile area on the page.  and a bit more

bend a corner

at the end of the test the very brittle one inch of perimeter was three folds brittle and the central area of the page was five-six folds britlle.  

[427Impaler]

Should probably note that the final stage did not get final appearance cleaning as this is as test purpose only.  A final clean looks like untreated paper

[vheflin]

Do the additives restore the thickness of the paper lost from the lignin removal?

[BlowUpTheMoon]

22 minutes ago, vheflin said:

Do the additives restore the thickness of the paper lost from the lignin removal?

Also my immediate question. 

[427Impaler]

Yes, and moves the paper another step closer to the ISO rating of archival, which requires a very low lignin content, ph buffers and minimum thickness.  Strength of the paper increases noticeably also, we have ideas why that is happening but we will wait for the third party analysis to confirm results

[kav]

52 minutes ago, 427Impaler said:

Yes, and moves the paper another step closer to the ISO rating of archival, which requires a very low lignin content, ph buffers and minimum thickness.  Strength of the paper increases noticeably also, we have ideas why that is happening but we will wait for the third party analysis to confirm results

Calcium carbonate has been used s a lignin replacement filler/pH buffer.

[123Joe]

14 minutes ago, kav said:

Calcium carbonate has been used s a lignin replacement filler/pH buffer.

Yep, I usually two-step a calcium hydroxide bath and generate the carbonate inside the paper

[123Joe]

I honestly expected the paper

to disintegrate when I did this:

https://youtube.com/shorts/4GjjCVe2ZbM?feature=share

[Randall Dowling]

The page looks washed (which it clearly is).  Looks like there's been ink loss as well.  But it's definitely not as brittle.

[427Impaler]

2 hours ago, Randall Dowling said:

The page looks washed (which it clearly is).  Looks like there's been ink loss as well.  But it's definitely not as brittle.

Not washed, and not bleached.  The ink is all intact but the unfinished surface obscures it.  
 

Yoi went out of your way to threadcrap in the first lignen thread and seem intent to continue the practice.  
 

Still sore about the book you couldn’t buy because you went radio silent at payment time?  Yes that’s right I know who you are and clearly trying to grind your axe.  

Bottom line is my primary goal is to increase the paper life of the collectibles I have always held in high regard.  The adding of PH buffers is done almost exclusively by water immersion so yes the book does get washed, however washing is NOT part oF the lignin removal.  I really should have nominated you for HOS for accusing me of bleaching books.  

[Hero Restoration]

Looks like gloss loss and Kaolin Clay loss, revealing the the unbleached inner core. It is easy for this to happen on silver age type paper, the binders used in combination with very thin layer of clay. Also, the problem is more prevalent in relation to condition, the lower the grade, the more likely there will be unwanted loss. I would be very interested in the before and after of the outside.

Edited April 19, 2021 by MastrCntrlProgram

[kav]

19 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

Not washed, and not bleached.  The ink is all intact but the unfinished surface obscures it.  
 

Yoi went out of your way to threadcrap in the first lignen thread and seem intent to continue the practice.  
 

Still sore about the book you couldn’t buy because you went radio silent at payment time?  Yes that’s right I know who you are and clearly trying to grind your axe.  

Bottom line is my primary goal is to increase the paper life of the collectibles I have always held in high regard.  The adding of PH buffers is done almost exclusively by water immersion so yes the book does get washed, however washing is NOT part oF the lignin removal.  I really should have nominated you for HOS for accusing me of bleaching books.  

I have a friend in Michigan who works as an archivist.  He was very interested in your research.

[Randall Dowling]

21 hours ago, 427Impaler said:

Not washed, and not bleached.  The ink is all intact but the unfinished surface obscures it.  
 

Yoi went out of your way to threadcrap in the first lignen thread and seem intent to continue the practice.  
 

Still sore about the book you couldn’t buy because you went radio silent at payment time?  Yes that’s right I know who you are and clearly trying to grind your axe.  

Bottom line is my primary goal is to increase the paper life of the collectibles I have always held in high regard.  The adding of PH buffers is done almost exclusively by water immersion so yes the book does get washed, however washing is NOT part oF the lignin removal.  I really should have nominated you for HOS for accusing me of bleaching books.  

 You have me confused with someone else because I have no idea what your talking about when it comes to not buying books (might want to see someone about that, you sound a little off).  I did question your chemical treatment because you suggested it wasn't easily detectable and I'm not a big fan of people doctoring up books and getting them in slabs.  But otherwise, you seem very nice.

P.S.  Aren't you the same guy that claimed on Instagram to have a copy of Double Action Comics 1 that was really a mock up and you couldn't tell the difference?

[427Impaler]

Must be two Randall Dowlings then because one bought a Manhunt #14 from me on eBay and disappeared with no payment.  I then sold it here and he reappeared with threats of making an issue of it here on the boards, which I of course welcomed.

If that wasn’t you then of course I apologize.  Strange coincidence.

Otherwise I am getting tired of your insinuations.  In the other post you suggested my bleaching books, and now suggesting I am trying to dishonestly get conserved books in blue labels.  Where did I ever say that???

I have talked about the process NOT affecting the artwork and leaving no visible damage or odour on the paper.  This has more to do with minimal severity of the process than any intent to deceive.  I have directly contacted CGC regarding any work I perform and other verification methods, etc.

That Double Action was fun.   If you think I couldnt tell what it is, 😁

[musicmeta]

This thread is very informative.  Learn something new about every day here.  

[Jeffro.]

8 minutes ago, musicmeta said:

This thread is very informative.

In more ways than one.

 

[427Impaler]

20 hours ago, MastrCntrlProgram said:

Looks like gloss loss and Kaolin Clay loss, revealing the the unbleached inner core. It is easy for this to happen on silver age type paper, the binders used in combination with very thin layer of clay. Also, the problem is more prevalent in relation to condition, the lower the grade, the more likely there will be unwanted loss. I would be very interested in the before and after of the outside.

The gloss and kaolin definitely took a hit in de acidification (post lignin removal).  An aqueous method (double bath) was used to add buffers and to re-fix.  The post lignin product retains gloss and kaolin (some Pics in my other related post). After Process the paper improves stability (interior pages generally move from brittle to cream or slightly brittle, and is noticeable) this impromptu experiment was to see if there was actually some more room to improve.  Zero attention was given to cosmetics, but I think the results warrant more tests and techniques. Later that evening we did a full 6 fold full paper test:

[427Impaler]

17 hours ago, kav said:

I have a friend in Michigan who works as an archivist.  He was very interested in your research.

Please tell him I welcome any contact, questions, etc.  Have been working with a number of Conservators.

[MatterEaterLad]

I appreciate the work you're doing. Thanks for sharing. Fascinating stuff. 

[aardvark88]

1 hour ago, MatterEaterLad said:

I appreciate the work you're doing. Fascinating stuff. 

+1 but perhaps better to have this thread moved to Restoration, Conservation forum.