Investment boom, collector bust. 0

[BabaLament]

Hello all!

First off, congratulations to the seller & new owner of that incredible $3.25M Action Comics #1. Seeing a book like that go up on the auction block is one of those Indiana Jones moments where I want to scream "It belongs in a museum!" I hope they find a nice spot to display it in their collection.

Now, to the meat of my post. I've seen lots of chatter between collectors and creators about the NFT phenomenon & investment-grade comics + original art selling at auction and greatly exceeding expectations. Most of it along the lines of "what does this mean for me, and my collection, going forward?"

First off, in the interest of full disclosure, allow me to sadly acknowledge that I am *not* equipped with a Rockefeller-like bankroll. I don't have the means to throw down millions of dollars on a single issue; so I'm afraid I can't provide an opinion from the perspective of someone who can. I understand the technical reasons & mechanics behind why some people/investment funds are purchasing "investment-grade" comics for tax-avoidance and/or wealth management purposes, but I don't have the wealth where such schemes become necessary.

Now on with the show.

For me, as your basic, middle-class, "hey honey, can I spend a couple hundred bucks at the convention this year(?)" kind of guy, this investment/speculation boom isn't completely cramping my style, but it's starting to make its presence felt. Back issue bins at the reasonably priced shops around town are being cleaned out of Gold & Silver age books. I mean *everything*, regardless of condition. Even Half-Price Books, which has been getting wise on their comics pricing much to my dismay, is tapped out. Two location managers told me that the same guy comes in weekly and buys out everything Spider-Man & Batman that hits the bin. A couple of the smaller local shops have the same story. Not sure about the big guy in town; it would take a container ship to load all his Gold & Silver age books in one place, and buying him out would probably require multiple winning lotto tickets. There is only one other guy I know with similar eyes-shoot-out-of-your-skull-in-shock price tags, and he resides in Denver. eBay is following suit, with just too many listings at "a fool and his money are soon parted" pricing that its just not worth the time investment of doom-scrolling through to (maybe) find a book at a decent price from a reputable (as far as eBay goes) seller.

So my impact is a little hurt, but not too much. I'm up-to-date on moderns, and filling out recent back issues isn't too bad so long as I stay away from chasing variants. Even dipping back into the late 80's & 90's back issues to fill out runs hasn't been too painful, though Venom & Carnage related Spider-Man books are getting *another* pre-movie bump, which is starting to make filling out Venom mini-series a bit pricey, and for some reason Punisher books from the War Zone series are starting to trend upwards. Late 70's & earlier though, especially in Uncanny X-Men, Spider-Man, or Batman? Pfft; sorry, not without a winning lotto ticket, finding Blackbeard's treasure, or finding a nice lamp at an antique shop that happens to contain a Genie.

How about ya'll? Any impact, good or bad?

[speedcake]

Apart from the keys, which I have most of now thankfully, filling in my X-Men silver and bronze run hasn't really been that painful so I've continued on with it.

There are loads and loads of really nice comics that either aren't any pricier than last year or are only marginally so.

I was never going to own many of the big big books anyway, so nothing has really changed for me there.

[the blob]

Are you made that you're having a harder time finding stuff at shops that would sell for more on ebay? Comic shop pricing errors are a market inefficiency we love, but hard to expect them.

I'm not seeing what you are complaining about for your middle of the road SA and BA filler books in mid grade or below, even books that might be semi-keyish. As far as I can tell that stuff has not really gone up. Shipping makes it expensive. 

Here's a nice looking ASM 137 that only sold for $25: https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Amazing-Spider-Man-137-Oct-1974-Marvel-/265128078869?epid=85416145&hash=item3dbadd6e15%3Ag%3AROwAAOSwo91gc65h&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

What fraction of guide is that? It's the shipping that killed the price there.

A 137 and 138 for $20: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spiderman-137-138-Bronze-Age-Key-Comic-Books-/393209226842?hash=item5b8d18a65a%3Ag%3A4VoAAOSwAYRgVmKM&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Shipping is really killing the prices on all of these mid priced books. 

Listen, I'm not saying there has not been a jump in prices for some stuff... at times a crazy jump ... but it is far from across the board.

Believe me, I wish it were the case, because I have thousands of SA and BA books I would love be worth listing on ebay (readily sellable at $10+ each), but i am not seeing it.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by the blob

[the blob]

I'll be honest, I'm a cheapskate, but I see plenty of books on ebay I would buy at the prices listed or a likely accepted best offer, but adding $5-10 shipping just makes it not worth it. These are books I think are underpriced or have upside, but, realistically, if I am buying a book for $25, paying $7 shipping and 8.5+% sales tax, it needs to be fully 50% undervalued to even break even if i wanted to resell it and that's my main guideline .. could I get my money back if I needed to sell it now? 

[romanheart]

On the bright side, you can go all in one a book as an investment, enjoy it for a while, and sell it later for a profit.

You would have owned history for a little while. At these prices a lot of us our in the same boat.

[Off Panel]

5 hours ago, BabaLament said:

Hello all!

First off, congratulations to the seller & new owner of that incredible $3.25M Action Comics #1.  

Thanks, man.

[Off Panel]

Yeah, I’m just kiddin’ around.

I DID buy the first appearance of Spider-man’s arch-nemesis, The Kangaroo, though. So, still pretty impressive.

 

 

oh wait. it’s the second appearance.

[Hairless Wookiee]

There's a local shop that doesn't put a price tag on their more expensive books. They always grab their Overstreet Guide to price them which I normally hate. It worked out for me though since I was on the lookout for an X-Men 120. He brought out a NM copy and I was expecting him to tell me $100+ for it but he busted out his guide which was way behind the times and told me $50. I couldn't believe it. Considering a few months ago he was asking $40 for VG copy of Uncanny X-Men 144.

[BabaLament]

@the blob I'm not trying to flip books for a profit at the moment, more trying to fill in the gaps in my collection and complete runs/series. You are correct in that some of the more out-there characters are easier, and far less expensive, than others. I picked Punisher as my initial "lets start collecting comics" character, and was able to complete the entire collection from first appearance to current issue in a little over three years. It took even less time for Scarlet Spider, Ghost Rider, and Iron Man. Other books though, are pretty darned difficult to find, as I prefer scouring used book stores and comic shop back issue bins. The personal approach; though I'm not against using shop websites or eBay to get certain variants or specific books to fill in holes. My gripe is about the growing number of people who are buying in bulk, not out of appreciation for the medium *or* to turn a profit in resale, but as a vehicle for wealth-preservation/tax evasion. High priced accountants who have decided (wisely or not, I don't know) that comics are suddenly a great way to avoid the tax man, so buying a million bucks worth of 1960's Batman/Spider-Man & sticking it in a vault somewhere as an "art trust asset" is preferable to the traditional Swiss/Cayman/Cypriot offshore shell company bank account.

If this only hit the grail keys, I wouldn't care in the slightest. The odds of an Action Comics 1 or Amazing Fantasy 15 ever gracing the walls of my man cave started at zero and have gone down from there. I don't have the means to deal in FF1's or Kirby OA, so where it goes doesn't bother me. It does start to be bothersome when characters I do like, and books I've been able to afford until recently, start drying up.

My opinion, I could be wrong.

[lordbyroncomics]

2 hours ago, Off Panel said:

Yeah, I’m just kiddin’ around.

I DID buy the first appearance of Spider-man’s arch-nemesis, The Kangaroo, though. So, still pretty impressive.

 

 

oh wait. it’s the second appearance.

Don't you know?? This means it's a "KEY" 

[The Lions Den]

7 hours ago, BabaLament said:

eBay is following suit, with just too many listings at "a fool and his money are soon parted" pricing that its just not worth the time investment of doom-scrolling through to (maybe) find a book at a decent price from a reputable (as far as eBay goes) seller.

[Mercury Man]

Shops around these parts are getting harder and harder to find Silver/Bronze in the back issue bins.  It's either a wall book or Modern now. 

[MetalPSI]

I've given up on collecting at the moment, and liquidating my entire 90s collection I've been lugging around in 6 longboxes for the last 30 years

[KCOComics]

I own most of the big marvel SA keys in one form or another. It's taken me years and years to get them. I generally have lower grade books, with some restored and my intent was always to slowly upgrade them.  And I've been fortunate to do that in some cases. 

The recent price run up has been a bit depressing for me personally. The price per point on allot of the big keys has really jumped and even upgrading has become way too expensive for my tastes.

So I've shifted my focus to more affordable books. If the market has a correction, I'll chase some keys again. If it doesn't, I'll just be content with what I have.

[speedcake]

2 hours ago, Hairless Wookiee said:

There's a local shop that doesn't put a price tag on their more expensive books. They always grab their Overstreet Guide to price them which I normally hate. It worked out for me though since I was on the lookout for an X-Men 120. He brought out a NM copy and I was expecting him to tell me $100+ for it but he busted out his guide which was way behind the times and told me $50. I couldn't believe it. Considering a few months ago he was asking $40 for VG copy of Uncanny X-Men 144.

Ya any shops that insist on checking overstreet right now would be gold mines 

[Pat Thomas]

I'm at a point where all that's left for me to buy is inherently expensive in a decent grade. I was able to buy a lot of keys and run fillers over the last decade, but I have a much harder time deciding what to buy now when the cheapest books I need in a title sell for $100 or more. That's where I am with Action Comics, Superman, Batman, and Detective Comics. Yesterday I was finally able to get Journey Into Mystery 89 off my want list, but it cost me $450. I was actually surprised I won the auction.

I'm thrilled that the value of my collection has skyrocketed, though. It's just too bad I have no desire to sell any of them.

[the blob]

2 hours ago, BabaLament said:

@the blob I'm not trying to flip books for a profit at the moment, more trying to fill in the gaps in my collection and complete runs/series. You are correct in that some of the more out-there characters are easier, and far less expensive, than others. I picked Punisher as my initial "lets start collecting comics" character, and was able to complete the entire collection from first appearance to current issue in a little over three years. It took even less time for Scarlet Spider, Ghost Rider, and Iron Man. Other books though, are pretty darned difficult to find, as I prefer scouring used book stores and comic shop back issue bins. The personal approach; though I'm not against using shop websites or eBay to get certain variants or specific books to fill in holes. My gripe is about the growing number of people who are buying in bulk, not out of appreciation for the medium *or* to turn a profit in resale, but as a vehicle for wealth-preservation/tax evasion. High priced accountants who have decided (wisely or not, I don't know) that comics are suddenly a great way to avoid the tax man, so buying a million bucks worth of 1960's Batman/Spider-Man & sticking it in a vault somewhere as an "art trust asset" is preferable to the traditional Swiss/Cayman/Cypriot offshore shell company bank account.

If this only hit the grail keys, I wouldn't care in the slightest. The odds of an Action Comics 1 or Amazing Fantasy 15 ever gracing the walls of my man cave started at zero and have gone down from there. I don't have the means to deal in FF1's or Kirby OA, so where it goes doesn't bother me. It does start to be bothersome when characters I do like, and books I've been able to afford until recently, start drying up.

My opinion, I could be wrong.

I threw ASM 137 out there as an example of a secondary semi-key. I always thought these books were cool when I was a kid. I think it has to be connected to something in the movies or current shows, mostly. Hero for Hire 1 is practically selling for what it was when the TV show hit, for example. Not a terrible copy of ASM 135 for $46 + shipping: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Great-Condition-2nd-Appearance-of-the-Punisher-/265111493115?hash=item3db9e059fb%3Ag%3AwyQAAOSwpNtgaQQG&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Still the vast bulk of BA and SA in mid-grade and below is selling for a fraction of guide. Yes, I know guide is outdated, but still.

[oldmilwaukee6er]

21 hours ago, BabaLament said:

 

How about ya'll? Any impact, good or bad?

I would echo a lot of what you've said. I've been to a couple local shows now and starting to get my own feet wet again. I don't like buying on feeBay, I prefer to source books locally and regionally. I find myself priced out. 

But thankfully I'm in a pretty good place collecting wise. I have a few Modern titles that I buy from the LCS, I am content to chase the variants on those and they keep me connected to the hobby. I was wise to complete my Spawn run 2 years ago, I would have been priced out of 20 or more issues by now if I had not. I got lucky on a few Usagis that I needed for my run a few years ago and am 'ok' with knowing I won't own an Albedo 2. I thought that before the recent runup. And I finished my goal of X-Men 1-19 right before pandemic, so I've captured some gains there. 

But I feel the hobby moving past me. My most recent local show I was skunked and didn't spend anything. The one before I spent $20 on some long-term spec. Most local back issue bins are thrice picked over and new spec plays fly off the shelves long before I arrive. 

I guess I'm lucky enough to have collected long enough now and have felt this way before, been priced out of a genre or collectible and had to move on ... There's ebbs and flows to collecting and this sure feels like an ebb. 

[the blob]

21 minutes ago, oldmilwaukee6er said:

I would echo a lot of what you've said. I've been to a couple local shows now and starting to get my own feet wet again. I don't like buying on feeBay, I prefer to source books locally and regionally. I find myself priced out. 

But thankfully I'm in a pretty good place collecting wise. I have a few Modern titles that I buy from the LCS, I am content to chase the variants on those and they keep me connected to the hobby. I was wise to complete my Spawn run 2 years ago, I would have been priced out of 20 or more issues by now if I had not. I got lucky on a few Usagis that I needed for my run a few years ago and am 'ok' with knowing I won't own an Albedo 2. I thought that before the recent runup. And I finished my goal of X-Men 1-19 right before pandemic, so I've captured some gains there. 

But I feel the hobby moving past me. My most recent local show I was skunked and didn't spend anything. The one before I spent $20 on some long-term spec. Most local back issue bins are thrice picked over and new spec plays fly off the shelves long before I arrive. 

I guess I'm lucky enough to have collected long enough now and have felt this way before, been priced out of a genre or collectible and had to move on ... There's ebbs and flows to collecting and this sure feels like an ebb. 

yet every week folks here post hauls they got on the cheap, so the books are still out there, just not as much low hanging fruit. the next con in NYC is scheduled for May 1, when we have an anniversary party scheduled, so I won't be able to get a sense of what things are like in the wild. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by the blob

[oldmilwaukee6er]

12 hours ago, Pat Thomas said:

 

I'm thrilled that the value of my collection has skyrocketed, though. It's just too bad I have no desire to sell any of them.

Agreed. When I bought my raw 3.0-3.5 X-Men #1 for $1700 in 2013ish... I thought I'd sell it for $5k. Now it's pushing $20k+ for a slabbed example and I'm thinking (likely wrongly) it'll be $100k by the time I sell. 

I've also begun to become really bullish (in my mind) on Spawn despite some crazy money for back issues. Emboldened by the book, and the potential of Spawn Universe and another 20yrs of Spawn ...  embiggened! Now I believe I will see a $100k Spawn collection sold one day. Maybe it'll even be mine!? And I used to hope that SOMEday maybe someone would pay me $10/issue. 

It's really amazing to think that my comics, this hobby that I've enjoyed for so many decades, these journeys that I've taken with creators ... Can actually help my future financial independence. I still have hope it does!