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Steve Borock says CGC cases need to be changed every 8-10 years
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221 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, catman76 said:

the thing that boggles my mind is why anyone would permanently keep comics in a slab. I get the point of grading and slabbing for knowing exactly what you are buying, but after that it makes no sense to me to keep a comic sealed up in a slab.

For me, it’s the illusion of liquidity coupled with the increased risk of damage that goes with a jailbreak. On my favorites, I will hunt for a beat up raw to go with it. If it’s a key (meaning even the beat up copies are too costly), I’ll buy a page. For display reasons, I prefer my single pages slabbed, too. Oh, and did I mention im too cheap and lazy to pay the cost of reslabbing?

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4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, the books from this latest GA pedigree (i.e. The Promise Collection pedigree) also looks pretty pristine from their dripping wet colors and I can't wait to hear how this collection of some 5,000 GA beauties were stored, as it looks like the majority of them are going to be graded into the high 9's:  :cloud9:  :takeit:

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It should be pointed out that the Church books, the Chinatown books, and I bet that the books from this newly designated Promise Collection were all stored raw in large piles with comic book against comic book with no air coming in between them.  Unlike now with the slabbed books, where they are stored NOT through stacking on top of other comic books, but by themselves individually within these fabricated manufactured slabs.  hm  :p

 

but isn't there still sealed, archive-certified mylar protecting the book inside the slab?......the materials used here are the same materials used by special/manuscript libraries...... if they are good enough for hundreds, if not thousands years old, archival papers/manuscripts/old drawings, they are good for these measly 30-70 years old comics

Edited by IronMan_Cave
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17 hours ago, aardvark88 said:

Love your Quick Draw avatar. I think Borock is correct in that Cgc slabs should be changed out every 8 years. Have seen 1950s comics with fragile spines and creamy paper have the spine almost disintegrate while in the slab. One would only notice if one cracked the comic out (to choke * read) though.

When its too late, and the spines start cracking, just send it to CPA Comics :insane:

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11 hours ago, Buzzetta said:
19 hours ago, Jeffro. said:

Is this the place to be today? I can't decide between this thread and all the :ohnoez: going on in the trading card forum.

When confused or torn between the two go with trading cards.  That's all new drama.  People like you and I have seen this drama play out already. 

It's getting a little repetitive though. New card guy making the same complaint as 15 other card guys. They need a new angst. 

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6 hours ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

One of the earliest graded books( sample slab) still in its original holder. Book still looks like when it was slabbed. 20210403_020506.jpg.b9bf1e052e4675d8ec219374511821c7.jpg

But don't just take my word for it. @valiantman

You do realize... there are differences between a book that's been created in modern times and preserved almost since it hit the stands and... one's that were printed 60 years ago and spent the first 20-50 years without any preservation...?

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8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, this is for the newbies here who obviously were not around when Steve was in charge of CGC.  :gossip:

Although this is probably the first time I remember him pointing this out about the CGC slabs since he's gone to the new company, he actually brought up this same point on a regular ongoing basis when he was with CGC.  Especially in terms of the need to change out the microchamber paper every 7 years or thereabouts.  (thumbsu

I’m well aware that Steve has been saying this about CGC slabs for years.  In fact, I recall not long after I joined the Boards getting slapped down by a veteran member for repeating what Steve was saying about reholdering.  
 

Steve’s been consistent about that, and if that was all he said I wouldn’t have thought much more of it.  
 

But the statement that Steve made as referenced in the first post is a two-part statement.  The stuff about CGC slabs needing to be reholdered ever 7-8 years is only the first part of the statement.  It’s the second part of the statement- the part that seems to be getting glossed over - that CBCS slabs are one-and-done and never need to be reholdered that has me viewing his entire statement with some skepticism. 
 

The only justification Steve provided for this difference is that the CBCS slab allows the book to “breath”. But my understanding is that the CGC slab isn’t hermetically sealed either, so is there any real difference?

I never said Steve was a “bad guy”. Yes, he’s been consistent about the need/recommendation for CGC slabs to be reholdered.  But from what I can see, what’s good for the slabbed goose should be good for the slabbed gander.  That fact that Steve is saying otherwise about CBCS slabs is what’s raising my eyebrow. 

The rub isn’t Steve’s statement about CGC slabs, it’s what he’s now saying in conjunction with it that makes me think that, “nice guy” though he may be, he may be more interested in selling me something than actually concerned about how my comics are archived. 
 

 

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31 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I’m well aware that Steve has been saying this about CGC slabs for years.  In fact, I recall not long after I joined the Boards getting slapped down by a veteran member for repeating what Steve was saying about reholdering.  
 

Steve’s been consistent about that, and if that was all he said I wouldn’t have thought much more of it.  
 

But the statement that Steve made as referenced in the first post is a two-part statement.  The stuff about CGC slabs needing to be reholdered ever 7-8 years is only the first part of the statement.  It’s the second part of the statement- the part that seems to be getting glossed over - that CBCS slabs are one-and-done and never need to be reholdered that has me viewing his entire statement with some skepticism. 
 

The only justification Steve provided for this difference is that the CBCS slab allows the book to “breath”. But my understanding is that the CGC slab isn’t hermetically sealed either, so is there any real difference?

I never said Steve was a “bad guy”. Yes, he’s been consistent about the need/recommendation for CGC slabs to be reholdered.  But from what I can see, what’s good for the slabbed goose should be good for the slabbed gander.  That fact that Steve is saying otherwise about CBCS slabs is what’s raising my eyebrow. 

The rub isn’t Steve’s statement about CGC slabs, it’s what he’s now saying in conjunction with it that makes me think that, “nice guy” though he may be, he may be more interested in selling me something than actually concerned about how my comics are archived. 
 

 

Thank you.  It was an obvious sales ploy on Borock's part to pimp the other guys' allegedly superior slab product (a statement backed up by a false assertion no less).  In this context, it doesn't matter how consistent he has been with his CGC re-holder statements, in fact they served as a convenient addition to his marketing pitch. 

I've never met the guy, I have no reason to doubt those who say he's a nice guy, but call a shill a shill when the proof is staring you in the face.

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8 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

With all due respect, I don't think that was the reason he left CGC. But I can appreciate the sentiment...  :)

Thanks. I have no idea why he left, frankly. Maybe only he does.

I recall leaving a job when I discovered a way to save the company (and myself) hours of time and labor by tweaking a process. They refused to recognize it and insisted I go back and do it "their way" although I had been doing it "my way" for months with great results. Their way was tedious and time consuming. Mine was streamlined with the same result they wanted. They only finally noticed because I was getting it done way before they thought I should have been and called me out on it. I asked why should I go back to the old way? This works and the results are the same except tons of hours are being saved to do other things in. She said "Because it's my company and I said so."

Ok. I thought time=money but what do I know? It's your world. Buh-Bye. Nice thing is I drive by the company almost every day. I can see that they have implemented what I was doing. Give the motivated and creative Ritalin. Reward the ding-a-lings. Whatever. Good riddance.

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I used to work for a place that sold those plastic 5 gallon jugs of water. They USED to use glass for a reason. But now they are plastic. Most likely changed because of breakage and trying to save money, the industry turned to everyone's darling, plastic. Plastic off gasses. The off gassing isn't particularly good for us when it gets in the water. So, these bottling companies suggest not letting your 5 gallon water jugs sit around for too long without being consumed. I still have 3 or 4 jugs in my basement. Been there 10 years. Not gonna drink it. Would you? That's "Flushin' Water" in case the power goes out or something.

There have been definitive studies also conducted that show food like fruit and vegetables age much MUCH more quickly in a zip loc bag than they do in a glass, sealed container. I was reminded of that a few weeks ago when I went for some baby carrots and dip and the carrots, being stored in a zip loc bag, were now covered in slime. Basically the begin stage of rotting. The carrots were only about a week old and my wife put them in a zip loc bag for storage.

I don't have any idea how this off gassing applies to paper but it can't be good overall. I always thought that mylar and a backing board was fine. I like the concept of storing them in a sturdy holder like a slab, but also know how off gassing plastic affects everything it comes in contact with. It isn't the mylar that will affect the books in the long term. It's the off gassing slab. When you can smell the plastic of a new slab, that's the beginning of the off gassing process. Like when we are in a tire warehouse buying new tires. The smell will about knock you down. They are off gassing.

I don't recall too many horror stories of books being utterly destroying or even plain damaged when it was just mylar and a board. We were encouraged to get our books out of plastic sleeves for a reason: They rotted. They were off gassing. And we all knew to change our bags frequently. Why? Because the bags started to become "filmy". Dull. They were rotting and we didn't want plastic touching our comics. Which is fine. So, we would go to mylar or change out our bags frequently. We all did it. We were careful when we handled them and we were careful when we packed and mailed them. There wasn't an overwhelming scourge of the USPS damaging our books. Slabs gave us an excuse to treat them a lot rougher than we did before. Given the shape of some slabs I have purchase. Scratched all to Hell. Chips and cracks in the slab that were obviously not caused by shipping.

The plastic thing is what concerns me most. Not the mylar. That rice paper in there has to be changed I believe because of the damage plastic gasses are doing to the paper. Don't take my word for it, though. Plastic causes everything to "mature" faster than it normally would.

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3 hours ago, Prince Namor said:

You do realize... there are differences between a book that's been created in modern times and preserved almost since it hit the stands and... one's that were printed 60 years ago and spent the first 20-50 years without any preservation...?

Why yes. Yes I do. I do not have a picture of the WD #1 that is supposed to the first book that is searchable and first to be encapsulated or I would have used that as an example.  Still even being modern it has been in a CGC case way longer that the 7 years. 

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1 hour ago, mattn792 said:

@Prince Namor - if you can't spot the snake oil, that's on you.  I'm not going to spend my time playing make believe with you.

In other words...

You're someone who hasn't stored CGC books for over 10 years...

You didn't know that Borock was representing his own company when he said these things...

You can't explain HOW you claim it's a false assertion...

You choose to ignore the consistency of his opening statement as the same thing he's been saying for over 10 years...

And you've never met the man personally...

 

Yet you feel I should just assume your expertise on the topic. 

No thanks. I'll stick to the people with actual experience in this subject.

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12 minutes ago, Prince Namor said:

In other words...

You're someone who hasn't stored CGC books for over 10 years...

You didn't know that Borock was representing his own company when he said these things...

You can't explain HOW you claim it's a false assertion...

You choose to ignore the consistency of his opening statement as the same thing he's been saying for over 10 years...

And you've never met the man personally...

 

Yet you feel I should just assume your expertise on the topic. 

No thanks. I'll stick to the people with actual experience in this subject.

Lamont Sanford GIF - Lamont Sanford And - Discover & Share GIFs

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Paper does not need to 'breathe'.  It does not metabolize.  Air can only have a destructive effect on paper.  Gulps of air does not 'pump up' your books and make them better, stronger, faster than before.

Edited by kav
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