Steve Borock says CGC cases need to be changed every 8-10 years 3 3

[TomG]

On 4/28/2021 at 1:00 AM, Prince Namor said:

Yes, inside of heat sealed plastic! It is a very big difference.

The slabs are not heat sealed they are sonically sealed. Third party grading companies from cards to coins to comics do not use heat in their process. Plastic components designed to be sonically sealed have a feature referred to as an energy director that is a raised feature on the welding surface that melts during the welding process that becomes the bond. Without this feature you would have to really put the pedal down to create a weld. 

[PovertyRow]

On 4/27/2021 at 12:18 PM, kav said:

``Paper is not some living organism that needs to come up and take a gulp of air every 8-10 years.
Absolute nonsense.  

Your statement is absolute nonsense and a typically deflecting KAVism. This has nothing to do with paper "breathing" - you are intentionally misunderstanding that word to make a nonsensical point. "Breathing" has to do with a non-hermetically sealed environment providing a place for acids/off gasses to be released rather than being sealed in with the book. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by PovertyRow
added the closing quote after ing

[PovertyRow]

I keep seeing people say "mylar with a backing board". Just to be clear it should read "mylar with an alkaline buffered backing board". Some backing boards contribute to the acid problem because they are acidic to begin with. Thus, make sure your backing boards are buffered, traditionally with a 3% calcium carbonate buffer. 

[Funnybooks]

3 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

I keep seeing people say "mylar with a backing board". Just to be clear it should read "mylar with an alkaline buffered backing board". Some backing boards contribute to the acid problem because they are acidic to begin with. Thus, make sure your backing boards are buffered, traditionally with a 3% calcium carbonate buffer. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

13 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

KAVism

Can't tell if this should be a custom board title or a thread. 

[MetalPSI]

3 minutes ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Can't tell if this should be a custom board title or a thread. 

Please God, no

We had peace for 2 months and may never have it again

[PovertyRow]

Just a general observation - I find it odd so many people (not just in this thread) are unfamiliar with Borock. I met Steve in 1999 at the David Cummings Primate Productions comic show in Boston. He was going around to dealers pitching them the idea of CGC for grading books and asking them for a few books to "donate" - they would get them back - as a demo to the process. Obviously the idea tended to catch on. We spent most of the day hitting various dealers and immediately became good friends.

For many years Steve was the President and Primary Grader as well as a lead restoration expert for CGC. He eventually left to work for Heritage in acquiring and evaluating comics. (I gave him  hand a couple of times and it was most interesting). When he finally decided to open this other company with others, he felt competition would be good and wanted to implement some ideas of his own. Steve is definitely one of the most knowledgeable people in comic and comic art collecting. He is quite honest and has his own genuine ideas. Some of those ideas clash deeply with others (including myself). He and I have definitely got into arguments but that does not prevent us from remaining friends.  

What DOES rub my rhubarb is seeing people who do not know him, never met or talked with him and just pass on the typical internet disinformation with authority as if they actually have the inside scoop. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by PovertyRow
danged spelling

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

26 minutes ago, Dr. Dank said:

We had peace for 2 months and may never have it again

You could always just drink a couple of these.. 

[MetalPSI]

Just now, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

You could always just drink a couple of these.. 

Or I can pray we have peace once again 

[PovertyRow]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Dank said:

Or I can pray we have peace once again 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

 

4 minutes ago, Dr. Dank said:

Or I can pray we have peace once again 

Maybe I should tag him.  

[kav]

1 hour ago, PovertyRow said:

Your statement is absolute nonsense and a typically deflecting KAVism. This has nothing to do with paper "breathing" - you are intentionally misunderstanding that word to make a nonsensical point. "Breathing" has to do with a non-hermetically sealed environment providing a place for acids/off gasses to be released rather than being sealed in with the book. 

How were the books at the bottom of the stacks in Church's collection-the ones in the best condition, doing more'off gassing than the ones at the middle or top?
Pls stop with the Povertyisms.

[PovertyRow]

13 minutes ago, kav said:

How were the books at the bottom of the stacks in Church's collection-the ones in the best condition, doing more'off gassing than the ones at the middle or top?
Pls stop with the Povertyisms.

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.  You are full of disinformation. You are talking about two different things and trying to prove point A using Point B.  What are you talking about  when you ask how are the books on the bottom are doing more off-gassing? The books on the bottom were compressed to the point that nothing could penetrate the pages, maintaining the white PQ. Books in slabs, even hermetically sealed slabs, are not compressed, and especially under that many pounds of pressure. And the consistent environment and low humidity of the books storage conditions were also a key factor in their preservation.

And lettuce get something straight - it should be "Povisms", not the awkward sounding "Povertyisms"

[kav]

2 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about.  You are full of disinformation. You are talking about two different things and trying to prove point A using Point B.  What are you talking about  when you ask how are the books on the bottom are doing more off-gassing? The books on the bottom were compressed to the point that nothing could penetrate the pages, maintaining the white PQ. Books in slabs, even hermetically sealed slabs, are not compressed, and especially under that many pounds of pressure. And the consistent environment and low humidity of the books storage conditions were also a key factor in their preservation.

And lettuce get something straight - it should be "Povisms", not the awkward sounding "Povertyisms"

More Povertyisms.  Books compressed and under stacks release less gas than books near the top.  If "off gassing" was a thing, the books at the bottom would be in worse shape.  This is simple science.

[PovertyRow]

2 minutes ago, kav said:

More Povertyisms.  Books compressed and under stacks release less gas than books near the top.  If "off gassing" was a thing, the books at the bottom would be in worse shape.  This is simple science.

Off-gassing is certainly a thing and, as I said, the books at the bottom were too compressed for that. 

The issue is this - you are ignoring the environment and comparing a slabbed bolok to books in the bottom of a stack.  Two different scenarios which is why I said you were trying to prove Point A using Point B.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

Off-gassing is certainly a thing and, as I said, the books at the bottom were too compressed for that. 

The issue is this - you are ignoring the environment and comparing a slabbed bolok to books in the bottom of a stack.  Two different scenarios which is why I said you were trying to prove Point A using Point B.

Where did you and Borock get your degrees in chemistry?  I got mine at CSUS.

[PovertyRow]

1 minute ago, kav said:

Where did you and Borock get your degrees in chemistry?  I got mine at CSUS.

I don't see how a degree in chemistry makes you omniscient, and the fact you would actually try to USE that indicates the end of the discussion.

I spent years studying comic book restoration specifically. Hands on experience with the books themselves, doing experiments on the books themselves. Converting my bedroom into a resto lab while sleeping in the living room. Studying everything I could get my hands on, joining organizations devoted to conservation and restoration of paper. Learning for many hours with a leading comic book restorer in their own lab.

What was the curricula in your chemistry classes regarding comic books? What makes a classroom environment so much superior to the years of specific study and hands on experiments I pursued? Is there something about a classroom environment that makes what you read from a book more telling than what I read from a book? How is this even relevant to the discussion?

 

[kav]

7 minutes ago, PovertyRow said:

I don't see how a degree in chemistry makes you omniscient, and the fact you would actually try to USE that indicates the end of the discussion.

I spent years studying comic book restoration specifically. Hands on experience with the books themselves, doing experiments on the books themselves. Converting my bedroom into a resto lab while sleeping in the living room. Studying everything I could get my hands on, joining organizations devoted to conservation and restoration of paper. Learning for many hours with a leading comic book restorer in their own lab.

What was the curricula in your chemistry classes regarding comic books? What makes a classroom environment so much superior to the years of specific study and hands on experiments I pursued? Is there something about a classroom environment that makes what you read from a book more telling than what I read from a book? How is this even relevant to the discussion?

 

Thats the point-you dont see how a chemistry education could relate to the way molecules move, interact, how the the perfect gas law works or anything.  Ps a chemistry class is not just a 'classroom'.  There are also 2 three hour labs weekly per course.

Edited May 3, 2021 by kav

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

Oh is that what we are doing now? 

Well mine is 12' of 

 

[kav]

The two drivers of paper degradation are oxygen and water.  There are two principal chemical degradation pathways of paper: acid-catalysed hydrolysis and oxidation. Letting the paper "breath" so the "bad molecules" leave is ludicrous-you are just introducing more O2 and moisture.