Resubmitting (non cgc to cgc) Restored Golden Age Books Query
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14 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hi Everyone, I was hoping to get a little advice on this.

I will soon have a restored Detective Comics from 1940. Thing is it's graded by another company. I am considering submitting it to CGC using their Crossover Regrade service. CGC will crack the current holder and grade it.

The book says moderate professional restoration in its current holder. I realize the grade can go down or up, but my concern and question is: Is it possible for the restoration to be compromised when removing it from the inner sleave? The resoration is:Small amount of color touch, pieces added to cover, cover reinforced, spine splits sealed, tear seals, cover cleaned. It's a 6.0 and I don't want to risk downgrading it very much by removing it from the current holder or even being handled.

Any input is appreciated. Also, I wonder if the wonderful people at CGC would be able to tell me before they crack it if there is any indication of trimming or anything married because if that's the case I don't want it opened. Perhaps there is a specific person at CGC who I can talk to about this.

Thank you.

Edited by Professor Chaos
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Posted (edited)

If it's a structurally sound 6.0 I don't think it'll get damaged by being removed from the slab/sleeve.

My concern would be possible variance in detecting restoration. It's not that CGC is bad at consistently detecting restoration (well, that might be part of it), it's that restoration techniques have improved. Hero Restoration, for example, has been able to remove trimming. I get the sense from my submissions last year that CGC is shooting from the hip in some instances. So whatever it says on the label now...could change quite a bit and get downgraded or upgraded accordingly. 

Do you have notes, photos, or documentation from whoever did the work? That would help.

Edited by MatterEaterLad
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1 hour ago, MatterEaterLad said:

If it's a structurally sound 6.0 I don't think it'll get damaged by being removed from the slab/sleeve.

My concern would be possible variance in detecting restoration. It's not that CGC is bad at consistently detecting restoration (well, that might be part of it), it's that restoration techniques have improved. Hero Restoration, for example, has been able to remove trimming. I get the sense from my submissions last year that CGC is shooting from the hip in some instances. So whatever it says on the label now...could change quite a bit and get downgraded or upgraded accordingly. 

Do you have notes, photos, or documentation from whoever did the work? That would help.

Hi, I don't have anything from before the resto. I know the book was last sold on heritage in 2016 so the work is at least that old. The other company doesn't tell you the Grade Date in their census but the holder label doesn't look very old judging by the design. 

I guess as far as damage to the restoration by cracking it my biggest concern might be the color touch being affected even though it says "small amount of".

But I see your points. Its a gamble.  Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

Hero Restoration, for example, has been able to remove trimming.

Impossible. At best leaf cast  trimming notatons can be removed due to either an inability to detect it (doubtful) or a decision to ignore it (worrisome). This feels like gaming the system in the worst way.

Edited by PovertyRow
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7 hours ago, PovertyRow said:

Impossible. At best leaf cast  trimming notatons can be removed due to either an inability to detect it (doubtful) or a decision to ignore it (worrisome). This feels like gaming the system in the worst way.

It's gaming the system if it's not notated properly. There's a huge difference between trimming an entire side and trimming the excess leaf casting of a 1/4" repair.  

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13 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Hi Everyone, I was hoping to get a little advice on this.

I will soon have a restored Detective Comics from 1940. Thing is it's graded by another company. I am considering submitting it to CGC using their Crossover Regrade service. CGC will crack the current holder and grade it.

The book says moderate professional restoration in its current holder. I realize the grade can go down or up, but my concern and question is: Is it possible for the restoration to be compromised when removing it from the inner sleave? The resoration is:Small amount of color touch, pieces added to cover, cover reinforced, spine splits sealed, tear seals, cover cleaned. It's a 6.0 and I don't want to risk downgrading it very much by removing it from the current holder or even being handled.

Any input is appreciated. Also, I wonder if the wonderful people at CGC would be able to tell me before they crack it if there is any indication of trimming or anything married because if that's the case I don't want it opened. Perhaps there is a specific person at CGC who I can talk to about this.

Thank you.

I'm just wondering why you'd want to spend more money on regrading a restored book? It being in a CGC holder won't make it worth more, and plus you get that purple label. I'd just leave it as is and save my money to buy another book.
Also, no way to know if the book is married without cracking the slab and looking in it.

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3 hours ago, MatterEaterLad said:

It's gaming the system if it's not notated properly. There's a huge difference between trimming an entire side and trimming the excess leaf casting of a 1/4" repair.  

Ahh, I think I may be addressing something different. When you wrote that "Hero Restoration, for example, has been able to remove trimming." I thought you meant they were able to "undo" a full trimmed edge. So now I am unclear what you mean by the "1/4" repair". 

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1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

I'm just wondering why you'd want to spend more money on regrading a restored book? It being in a CGC holder won't make it worth more, and plus you get that purple label. I'd just leave it as is and save my money to buy another book.
Also, no way to know if the book is married without cracking the slab and looking in it.

You're right. I haven't decided if I'm going to do it, but the more I think about it the more I am leaning toward just leaving it be. 

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1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

You're right. I haven't decided if I'm going to do it, but the more I think about it the more I am leaning toward just leaving it be. 

You sound like a wise man Professor Chaos. 

The usual case for someone sending a preslabbed restored comic to CGC is either:

A) because what one company considers restoration, CGC might consider grey label or even blue label (I personally plan on doing that)

B) to assess with CCS if the restoration can be removed

Also, from what I heard, CGC is harsher on restored comics. So, a restored comic that looks like an 8.0 would still get a 6.0 from CGC simply because it's restored. While this is not confirmed by CGC (obviously), I looked it up after hearing it the first time and sure enough, the comics inside most purple labels I see look better than the grade on the label.

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2 hours ago, PovertyRow said:

Ahh, I think I may be addressing something different. When you wrote that "Hero Restoration, for example, has been able to remove trimming." I thought you meant they were able to "undo" a full trimmed edge. So now I am unclear what you mean by the "1/4" repair". 

I think I've muddied the waters. Hero removed a fully trimmed edge from a Batman 1. I've seen the before and after photos and they added at least 1/8" to the top. Or replaced, if that's a better term. But it sounds like it was undetectable, which could open the door to a lot of shenanigans. 

I was just grousing because my FF1 didn't have a full trim, just a leaf casted corner and that came back as "trimmed."  (shrug)

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15 minutes ago, MatterEaterLad said:

I was just grousing because my FF1 didn't have a full trim, just a leaf casted corner and that came back as "trimmed."  (shrug)

Now that is bizarre. This does ring a faint bell from a discussion a couple or more years ago here. Calling a leaf cast corner "trimmed" is absolutely wrong. I would protest that to CGC up and down. Why? Because the leaf cast is not original to the book hence the book itself was not trimmed. The only way I could see that as valid is if they had to actually trim a titch into the cover itself to neatly align the leaf casted area.

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8 hours ago, William-James88 said:

You sound like a wise man Professor Chaos. 

The usual case for someone sending a preslabbed restored comic to CGC is either:

A) because what one company considers restoration, CGC might consider grey label or even blue label (I personally plan on doing that)

B) to assess with CCS if the restoration can be removed

Also, from what I heard, CGC is harsher on restored comics. So, a restored comic that looks like an 8.0 would still get a 6.0 from CGC simply because it's restored. While this is not confirmed by CGC (obviously), I looked it up after hearing it the first time and sure enough, the comics inside most purple labels I see look better than the grade on the label.

As do you Willian-James88 (thumbsu

Those are good reasons. With my book A and B don't apply. Now that last thing you said. I think maybe thats why my thoughts went toward perhaps resubbing to cgc........to see what grade they would give it. Perhaps a more realistic, precise grade. The thought of "sure its a **** 6.0 right now, but what would CGC grade it?" is always going to be there. Then again heck with it, the book looks pretty sweet (at least in scans I have from two different auction sites its been in) , so that should be enough I suppose. 

Totally right about most purple labels look better. I have 3 Purple labels, all from 1940, all slight A-1's, and all three look better than their grade. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

I have 3 Purple labels, all from 1940, all slight A-1's, and all three look better than their grade. 

In many cases, the illusion of a moderately or extensively restored book of appearing  to be better than the grade is quickly dispelled once it's out of the slab and well and then the sruface can be examined and seen far better devoid of viewing through the double layers of the slab and the well. The slab also tends to obscure the seams or perimeters of restored areas, once no longer viewed under glass, the details of which now stand out in stark contrast to prior to de-slabbing. 

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There is also the possibility that what another company considers "Professional" CGC on that day may consider to be "fine" in which case the book could come back at B2 rather than A2.  You know what it looks like in hand and that is the most important.  I have sent in a book that had professional restoration done that was top quality, at least to me.  The professional removed amateur resto and replaced it with professional work and it raw in hand I had could not tell what had been done if I did not have before and after photos.  It came back a B5.  I was a bit upset at first but to be honest it would have been a far lower grade C5 before so I was still happy I had it done.  I do wonder if on another day it might have been an A5 though?  

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