• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Original pencil vs inked and colored final
0

29 posts in this topic

So...I have the opportunity to buy a published cover and the art is inked and colored by the original artist.  While talking the artist told me they had sold the original pencils which I had not expected.  So, what would you do?  I’ve only been collecting for about two years and this has never come up with a sale. Which would be more valuable or is it a deal breaker right from the start since the pencil is out in the wild?  Would the pencil be considered a preliminary since the finished piece was all inked and colored by the artist as well?  Thanks, can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, aka_RAMSES said:

So...I have the opportunity to buy a published cover and the art is inked and colored by the original artist.  While talking the artist told me they had sold the original pencils which I had not expected.  So, what would you do?  I’ve only been collecting for about two years and this has never come up with a sale. Which would be more valuable or is it a deal breaker right from the start since the pencil is out in the wild?  Would the pencil be considered a preliminary since the finished piece was all inked and colored by the artist as well?  Thanks, can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks.

If the inked and hand-colored (?) piece is the published cover, then that’s the final cover. It’s very likely that the artist considers the pencil piece the prelim. The ink and colored is the more valuable piece. Personally, it’s not a deal breaker knowing the pencils are out there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, aka_RAMSES said:

So...I have the opportunity to buy a published cover and the art is inked and colored by the original artist.  While talking the artist told me they had sold the original pencils which I had not expected.  So, what would you do?  I’ve only been collecting for about two years and this has never come up with a sale. Which would be more valuable or is it a deal breaker right from the start since the pencil is out in the wild?  Would the pencil be considered a preliminary since the finished piece was all inked and colored by the artist as well?  Thanks, can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks.

More info is needed. The same artist did the pencils, inks and colours? But did pencils separately? 

How finished were the pencils? What was the pricing of similar pieces by that artist that were his pencils vs not? 

It's also rare for artists to colour their own piece, especially published ones. 

Malvin 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, malvin said:

More info is needed. The same artist did the pencils, inks and colours? But did pencils separately? 

How finished were the pencils? What was the pricing of similar pieces by that artist that were his pencils vs not? 

It's also rare for artists to colour their own piece, especially published ones. 

Malvin 

I don’t find doing the pencils separately that unusual. Or an artist coloring their own cover. I mean you’re right we don’t have a lot of info, this could be Alex Ross he’s talking about who does a tight pencil prelim, then paints the cover. I see this done a lot with painted card art from the 90s. To me the pencils are the prelim even if they are tight—I guess given the info we do have. The inked and colored piece would be worth to me imho. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Value is based on your preferences, and the absence of pencils is not a dealbreaker. I will buy simple inks on blue lines without pencils, even if I know they exist, so their absence doesn’t bother me much. The question is how much is what you are being expected to pay without the pencils, who is the artist and what is the subject? In this case, I don’t think it matters, but if you are a completist, perhaps the artist can tell you who bought the pencils or contact the person for you to see if they would sell it. Bottom line: if you like it, buy it. You are not getting a three-legged dog.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, John E. said:

If the inked and hand-colored (?) piece is the published cover, then that’s the final cover. It’s very likely that the artist considers the pencil piece the prelim. The ink and colored is the more valuable piece. Personally, it’s not a deal breaker knowing the pencils are out there. 

Sorry I hadn’t caught up with this thread, it’s been a day.  When I talked with the artist I told her I was surprised the pencil was bought without the finished piece.  She said she does everything in pencil first because eraser marks can effect the paper and not give her the desired result when coloring the final art.  I’m no artist but I could see her point.  Like I said, I’m still a little green and I have seen pencils and final sold together, especially newer stuff.  I was just a little confused and didn’t want to pay big money (for me) until I got some feedback from some seasoned collectors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are pics of pencil and finished.  I actually contacted the artist about her Batman 108 cover but it was sold and after some talk we wound up with this piece.  I ended up telling the artist I was going to hold off but I appreciated the opportunity to buy.  This purchase would have sapped me for a bit and I didn’t want to miss out on some things I’m looking forward to down the line.  Not a huge Vampirella fan either, I just loved the artwork.

 

EA4529C5-EF4A-4A2A-97D1-50DD5467EDBC.jpeg

069863D1-2FD0-4B26-8A37-8990D315F4C2.jpeg

Edited by aka_RAMSES
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, aka_RAMSES said:

Here are pics of pencil and finished.  I actually contacted the artist about her Batman 108 cover but it was sold and after some talk we wound up with this piece.  I ended up telling the artist I was going to hold off but I appreciated the opportunity to buy.  This purchase would have sapped me for a bit and I didn’t want to miss out on some things I’m looking forward to down the line.  Not a huge Vampirella fan either, I just loved the artwork.

 

EA4529C5-EF4A-4A2A-97D1-50DD5467EDBC.jpeg

069863D1-2FD0-4B26-8A37-8990D315F4C2.jpeg

That is an awesome cover. I’m not a Vampirella fan either but I would make an exception for that cover. 
 

Again, not uncommon for artists to sell pencil prelim pieces separately, especially if they are tight. It may have been that the buyer of the pencils was in your situation; they like the work, but buying the final piece was a bit of a stretch, but the pencils were more affordable and scratches the itch. 
 

Edited by John E.
Wrote “color” instead of “cover”
Link to comment
Share on other sites

John knows a lot about the hobby, so take what I say with a grain of salt. This penciled page doesn't look like a prelim to me. It's much too finished. If the pencils were scanned in and the artist inked over the digital lines, then you're getting the published image, that's true, but you're buying inks and colors over a print-out. You're not getting the page of art that created the image. I'd check with the artist to get a little clarification before I made that buy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Hal Turner said:

John knows a lot about the hobby, so take what I say with a grain of salt. This penciled page doesn't look like a prelim to me. It's much too finished. If the pencils were scanned in and the artist inked over the digital lines, then you're getting the published image, that's true, but you're buying inks and colors over a print-out. You're not getting the page of art that created the image. I'd check with the artist to get a little clarification before I made that buy.

I turned the piece down, mostly just because I didn’t want to spend the money.  I did talk to the artist about her process as well.  She pencils, light box over the pencil with ink and then color.

Now, curious on your thoughts about an artist who would do digital and then ink over the print out?  If that was just their process would you never buy a piece of theirs?  This gets to be confusing, lol.  When I started collecting I just figured everything was done on one page all the time.  I was very wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aka_RAMSES said:

I turned the piece down, mostly just because I didn’t want to spend the money.  I did talk to the artist about her process as well.  She pencils, light box over the pencil with ink and then color.

Now, curious on your thoughts about an artist who would do digital and then ink over the print out?  If that was just their process would you never buy a piece of theirs?  This gets to be confusing, lol.  When I started collecting I just figured everything was done on one page all the time.  I was very wrong.

If you are looking to collect new art you just have to accept it for what it is. Artists are using whatever digital tools are at their disposal to get the job done on deadline. You can’t control if there’s three different processes of the same piece. Choose the one you like best. That said, it bothers me which is why I only focus on vintage art that has pencil and inks on the same board. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aka_RAMSES said:

Now, curious on your thoughts about an artist who would do digital and then ink over the print out?  If that was just their process would you never buy a piece of theirs?

As John said, modern art tends to be done differently than the old school ways. This week, I bought a modern (2017) DPS that was all pencils and inked digitally. Recently, I picked up a modern (2007) splash that was inks over graphite and another splash (2018) that had pencils on one board, inks on another, and I was able to get both. Lots of options these days. Inks over bluelines and monoprints are two of the newer options that don't appeal to me. If that's the artist's process, you're right, I'm not buying their art. There are collectors for inked bluelines and monoprints, though, and I won't be surprised if that part of the hobby grows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, aka_RAMSES said:

I turned the piece down, mostly just because I didn’t want to spend the money.  I did talk to the artist about her process as well.  She pencils, light box over the pencil with ink and then color.

Now, curious on your thoughts about an artist who would do digital and then ink over the print out?  If that was just their process would you never buy a piece of theirs?  This gets to be confusing, lol.  When I started collecting I just figured everything was done on one page all the time.  I was very wrong.

I have bought many pieces like that. It's the same artist all the way and there isn't a set of pencils floating out there. 

It's not like there are jim Lee pencils and some no name inker inked over the blue lines for publication 

Malvin 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Generally I'd be hesitant to buy a piece that has pencils floating about, but I feel it's usually an exception if the artist's final product is a painting. Not sure how this piece was colored, but the colored piece is definitely highly distinct from the pencils and likely vastly more desirable. There also seem to be slight differences in the pencils and the colored piece, which indicates the pencils were largely prelim, even if very tight and close to final image. 

I like the example @John E. gave of Alex Ross. Even if Ross did pencils, you want the painting - there are no questions as to which is more desirable and the owner of the painted piece would have zero qualms about a pencil prelim existing separate.

There are many variations in which art can exist. Generally I only avoid buying a piece if 2+ boards exist for the same piece of pen & ink art and I can't get both boards (but even then, I'll make an exception for the right piece/price). If an artist does digital pencils and traditional inks, the piece is still 100% that artist and only 1 board exists - in my opinion, that isn't really any different from a single board with both traditional pencils and inks. Collectors obviously differ greatly on this though. I suspect collectors of modern art are likely more open to different formats as modern artists work in so many different formats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Varanis said:

Generally I'd be hesitant to buy a piece that has pencils floating about, but I feel it's usually an exception if the artist's final product is a painting. Not sure how this piece was colored, but the colored piece is definitely highly distinct from the pencils and likely vastly more desirable. There also seem to be slight differences in the pencils and the colored piece, which indicates the pencils were largely prelim, even if very tight and close to final image. 

I like the example @John E. gave of Alex Ross. Even if Ross did pencils, you want the painting - there are no questions as to which is more desirable and the owner of the painted piece would have zero qualms about a pencil prelim existing separate.

There are many variations in which art can exist. Generally I only avoid buying a piece if 2+ boards exist for the same piece of pen & ink art and I can't get both boards (but even then, I'll make an exception for the right piece/price). If an artist does digital pencils and traditional inks, the piece is still 100% that artist and only 1 board exists - in my opinion, that isn't really any different from a single board with both traditional pencils and inks. Collectors obviously differ greatly on this though. I suspect collectors of modern art are likely more open to different formats as modern artists work in so many different formats.

That helped a lot.  One more scenario for you.  Would you consider pencils preliminary if it was then inked digitally and colored digitally?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, aka_RAMSES said:

That helped a lot.  One more scenario for you.  Would you consider pencils preliminary if it was then inked digitally and colored digitally?

In that scenario, it sounds like the pencils are the only piece which physically exists. I think it all depends on the quality of the pencils at that point and how many (if any) changes were made from pencils to final piece. Not a great answer, but I think in this scenario the answer is really - it depends. I think it's a big plus you're getting the only board, but opinions vary substantially around pencil only pieces.

Edited by Varanis
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Varanis said:

In that scenario, it sounds like the pencils are the only piece which physically exists. I think it all depends on the quality of the pencils at that point and how many (if any) changes were made from pencils to final piece. Not a great answer, but I think in this scenario the answer is really - it depends. I think it's a big plus you're getting the only board, but opinions vary substantially around pencil only pieces.

Well, I pulled the trigger on this today because I’ve been trying to get a cover for issue #16.  I was told by the artist that they do the preliminary work digital, blow it up and light box and fine pencil it, THEN go back to digital to ink and then someone else digitally colors it. 😳  I asked why even do the physical pencil and they said to sell for extra money.

Im very happy with it and think I got a good price but I think the artist is leaving money on the table not physically inking it too. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

 

8674249C-0495-4F5F-8603-F4DAC7611B14.png

2C9AEDBC-0117-4E12-B196-7D7D092CEF53.png

803FCEA2-1217-43A2-8080-814F91746C32.jpeg

Edited by aka_RAMSES
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, aka_RAMSES said:

Well, I pulled the trigger on this today because I’ve been trying to get a cover for issue #16.  I was told by the artist that they do the preliminary work digital, blow it up and light box and fine pencil it, THEN go back to digital to ink and then someone else digitally colors it. 😳  I asked why even do the physical pencil and they said to sell for extra money.

Im very happy with it and think I got a good price but I think the artist is leaving money on the table not physically inking it too. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

 

8674249C-0495-4F5F-8603-F4DAC7611B14.png

2C9AEDBC-0117-4E12-B196-7D7D092CEF53.png

803FCEA2-1217-43A2-8080-814F91746C32.jpeg

In other words, they do a recreation of the original, since it is never part of the publishing process, and pretend it’s the original to sell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

In other words, they do a recreation of the original, since it is never part of the publishing process, and pretend it’s the original to sell. 

Just going by what the artist told me and showed me with the panel that was blown up and light boxed.  That digital panel looked quite different to me and the pencil spot on for the most part to the published piece.  I’m happy with it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited by aka_RAMSES
Added “the pencil”
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

1 hour ago, aka_RAMSES said:

Just going by what the artist told me and showed me with the panel that was blown up and light boxed.  That digital panel looked quite different to me and spot on for the most part to the published piece.  I’m happy with it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Congrats @aka_RAMSES! That's a really great piece from a really fantastic book. It's actually not uncommon for artists to do prelims like that. I know I see Daniel Warren Johnson do something very similar, although his prelims are usually traditional.

1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

In other words, they do a recreation of the original, since it is never part of the publishing process, and pretend it’s the original to sell. 

In this case, the traditional pencils are definitely part of the publishing process. It may have been easier for the artist to either skip tight pencils or do the pencils digital only, but it's pretty evident based on the images that the traditional pencils were used for the final piece.

1 hour ago, aka_RAMSES said:

Well, I pulled the trigger on this today because I’ve been trying to get a cover for issue #16.  I was told by the artist that they do the preliminary work digital, blow it up and light box and fine pencil it, THEN go back to digital to ink and then someone else digitally colors it. 😳  I asked why even do the physical pencil and they said to sell for extra money.

Im very happy with it and think I got a good price but I think the artist is leaving money on the table not physically inking it too. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

 

8674249C-0495-4F5F-8603-F4DAC7611B14.png

2C9AEDBC-0117-4E12-B196-7D7D092CEF53.png

803FCEA2-1217-43A2-8080-814F91746C32.jpeg

One thing possibly worth pointing out is that colors are digital 99% of the time. The only common colored pieces are paintings - and in those cases, the painting is essentially always the most desirable piece regardless of what else exists. Almost always the only consideration around colors is to ask if the final piece is a painting. If it's not, colors are pretty much guaranteed to be digital and a moot point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0