The Promise Collection 3 3

[Spyder!]

19 hours ago, alexgross.com said:

i know this has been covered, but for those who havent seen, the ridiculousness of some of these grades truly undermines cgc's cred. i still adore this book, but the amount of latitude granted here is questionable, imho.

 

Seems pretty obvious that these are production related 

[Spyder!]

There are tons of slabbed books out there that look over or under graded just based on a scan. You’re all so focused on a few grades you personally disagree with, for books you’ve never held in your own hands, rather than focusing on how amazing this collection is. Bottom line is, this collection has some absolutely amazing books that will sell for incredibly high prices, and you all wish you could snag one (or more) regardless of what you are saying on here.

[N e r V]

31 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I don't know why folks don't do what they have been doing for over a decade and constantly touting on the boards "buy the book, not the label".  If you think the book looks overgrazed, take a pass.  If you think it looks overgraded but is going for a decent price bid on it.  If you think the grade is spot on, go hard after it.  Remember, we are the folks that would literally buy from Hitler or Satan if they had something we "needed".

Eh, let it go. The more they talk about the collection the better for Heritage.By continuing to complain about the collection they are keeping its press alive and in everyone’s minds here…

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by N e r V

[szav]

47 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I don't know why folks don't do what they have been doing for over a decade and constantly touting on the boards "buy the book, not the label".

I mean, I'm just as surprised at the blasé attitude so many seem to have about the number of passes and apparent special treatment these books are getting.  Sure we can buy the book not the grade, but with this level of inconsistency and grade generosity do you not start to wonder just a little bit about the judgment of PQ and possible interior defects not noted (especially on presssed books), or that they took the necessary time to do resto checks or fully evaluate the books?  Did they rush with the encapsulation and damage any of these books?  It looks possible on a few.  Pretty sure the pressing has been rushed.

I like CGC and the service they offer and I have for a long time and have trusted them to the point of spending a lot of my disposable income on their product.  I think they're possibly hurting their brand quite a bit here and that's a shame.  I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the mistakes and urging them to do a better job the rest of the way with these books and others, even if they are essentially the only game in town and we just have to deal with it.

[batman_fan]

12 minutes ago, szav said:

I mean, I'm just as surprised at the blasé attitude so many seem to have about the number of passes and apparent special treatment these books are getting.  Sure we can buy the book not the grade, but with this level of inconsistency and grade generosity do you not start to wonder just a little bit about the judgment of PQ and possible interior defects not noted (especially on presssed books), or that they took the necessary time to do resto checks or fully evaluate the books?  Did they rush with the encapsulation and damage any of these books?  It looks possible on a few.  Pretty sure the pressing has been rushed.

I like CGC and the service they offer and I have for a long time and have trusted them to the point of spending a lot of my disposable income on their product.  I think they're possibly hurting their brand quite a bit here and that's a shame.  I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the mistakes and urging them to do a better job the rest of the way with these books and others, even if they are essentially the only game in town and we just have to deal with it.

CGC has had a well known history of inconsistent grading basically since day 1.  Shouldn't comes as a surprise to anyone but for anyone that isn't aware of CGC's history on grading

1.  Grading is inconsistent.  They go through periods of being strict and being lax.  Watch the boards to find out what their current trend is.

2.  CGC misses restoration

3.  CGC sees restoration where there is none

4.  Taking a book apart is not restoration

5.  Pressing is not restoration

6. Using non-archival tape to reattach a cover is not restoration and can boost the grade

7. Using archival tape to reattach a cover is restoration.

[N e r V]

18 minutes ago, szav said:

I mean, I'm just as surprised at the blasé attitude so many seem to have about the number of passes and apparent special treatment these books are getting.  Sure we can buy the book not the grade, but with this level of inconsistency and grade generosity do you not start to wonder just a little bit about the judgment of PQ and possible interior defects not noted (especially on presssed books), or that they took the necessary time to do resto checks or fully evaluate the books?  Did they rush with the encapsulation and damage any of these books?  It looks possible on a few.  Pretty sure the pressing has been rushed.

I like CGC and the service they offer and I have for a long time and have trusted them to the point of spending a lot of my disposable income on their product.  I think they're possibly hurting their brand quite a bit here and that's a shame.  I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the mistakes and urging them to do a better job the rest of the way with these books and others, even if they are essentially the only game in town and we just have to deal with it.

I think the points on grading of certain books is valid but CGC has given out “gifts” before as well as others in the business with grading. So is the argument over that or do people think it’s a unusually high amount of “gifts” with this collection? Only a small percentage of the collection is shown so far so I’m taking a wait a see attitude. We’ve all discussed over grading by CGC at times in the past (as well as the reverse). 

[jimjum12]

11 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

CGC has had a well known history of inconsistent grading basically since day 1.  Shouldn't comes as a surprise to anyone but for anyone that isn't aware of CGC's history on grading

1.  Grading is inconsistent.  They go through periods of being strict and being lax.  Watch the boards to find out what their current trend is.

2.  CGC misses restoration

3.  CGC sees restoration where there is none

4.  Taking a book apart is not restoration

5.  Pressing is not restoration

6. Using non-archival tape to reattach a cover is not restoration and can boost the grade

7. Using archival tape to reattach a cover is restoration.

This kind of talk is going to make new collectors want their Mommas .... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... most of those pieces out are being deemed "bindery chips", which CGC has considered production related since day one. For me, if it looks ugly, I consider it a defect and bid accordingly .... but then, I'm more a lover of 50's books, where you have to decide if you want a copy shaped like a trapezoid or no copy at all.

[szav]

26 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

CGC has had a well known history of inconsistent grading basically since day 1.  Shouldn't comes as a surprise to anyone but for anyone that isn't aware of CGC's history on grading

1.  Grading is inconsistent.  They go through periods of being strict and being lax.  Watch the boards to find out what their current trend is.

2.  CGC misses restoration

3.  CGC sees restoration where there is none

4.  Taking a book apart is not restoration

5.  Pressing is not restoration

6. Using non-archival tape to reattach a cover is not restoration and can boost the grade

7. Using archival tape to reattach a cover is restoration.

I would not and have not disputed any of your points, and I've even weighed in the 'give them a break, they can't be perfect' side of this argument.  I am not surprised, I'm disappointed.  They've been at it for 20 years, and they've built a strong trusted brand, they can do better and they should in order to maintain it.

I mean, will there be a bigger spotlight than this landmark pedigree going to auction?  Honestly, not the time you want to shine a light on the weakest parts of your business.

Edited May 16, 2021 by szav

[thehumantorch]

39 minutes ago, szav said:

I mean, I'm just as surprised at the blasé attitude so many seem to have about the number of passes and apparent special treatment these books are getting.  Sure we can buy the book not the grade, but with this level of inconsistency and grade generosity do you not start to wonder just a little bit about the judgment of PQ and possible interior defects not noted (especially on presssed books), or that they took the necessary time to do resto checks or fully evaluate the books?  Did they rush with the encapsulation and damage any of these books?  It looks possible on a few.  Pretty sure the pressing has been rushed.

I like CGC and the service they offer and I have for a long time and have trusted them to the point of spending a lot of my disposable income on their product.  I think they're possibly hurting their brand quite a bit here and that's a shame.  I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing out the mistakes and urging them to do a better job the rest of the way with these books and others, even if they are essentially the only game in town and we just have to deal with it.

I'd hope and imagine that when pressing and grading a collection of this calibre CGC would take their time, be very careful, and assign their most skilled and experienced employees to the job  This is a beautiful slice of comic history and it's likely there isn't another unknown GA pedigree collection of this quality left in the wild.  When you take a step back and look at the quality of these books it really is amazing.

[aardvark88]

3 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

 This is a beautiful slice of comic history and it's likely there isn't another unknown GA pedigree collection of this quality left in the wild.  When you take a step back and look at the quality of these books it really is amazing.

Flashback to the discovery of the Mile High/Edgar Church Pedigree collection:

 

[Buliwyf]

" This is a beautiful slice of comic history and it's likely there isn't another unknown GA pedigree collection of this quality left in the wild."

..hmm let's keep in mind that Tom Reilly's San Francisco collection remains scattered about..

[batman_fan]

52 minutes ago, szav said:

I would not and have not disputed any of your points, and I've even weighed in the 'give them a break, they can't be perfect' side of this argument.  I am not surprised, I'm disappointed.  They've been at it for 20 years, and they've built a strong trusted brand, they can do better and they should in order to maintain it.

I mean, will there be a bigger spotlight than this landmark pedigree going to auction?  Honestly, not the time you want to shine a light on the weakest parts of your business.

I don't disagree with disappointment, I certainly am but unfortunately it is what it is and their customer based has voted with their wallets.  New competitors are hard pressed to gain any real traction it seems

[batman_fan]

1 hour ago, jimjum12 said:

This kind of talk is going to make new collectors want their Mommas .... GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

... most of those pieces out are being deemed "bindery chips", which CGC has considered production related since day one. For me, if it looks ugly, I consider it a defect and bid accordingly .... but then, I'm more a lover of 50's books, where you have to decide if you want a copy shaped like a trapezoid or no copy at all.

I am really looking forward to the 50s Batman's.  Hopefully there will be a few in the 7.5 to 8.5 range that are "affordable":

[jimjum12]

47 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I am really looking forward to the 50s Batman's.  Hopefully there will be a few in the 7.5 to 8.5 range that are "affordable":

I'd be scared to look directly at the BATMAN 73 or 84 from this collection... if they are even there. I once placed a bid on an 8.5 copy of BATMAN 84 that made me question my sanity. If it's a book I love ... I'm THAT guy. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[batman_fan]

1 hour ago, jimjum12 said:

I'd be scared to look directly at the BATMAN 73 or 84 from this collection... if they are even there. I once placed a bid on an 8.5 copy of BATMAN 84 that made me question my sanity. If it's a book I love ... I'm THAT guy. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I would be happy with a 76 or 86

 

[N e r V]

2 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I don't disagree with disappointment, I certainly am but unfortunately it is what it is and their customer based has voted with their wallets.  New competitors are hard pressed to gain any real traction it seems

PGX was always a joke. Only seems to work for amateur collectors or sketchy sellers. I thought CBCS early on would challenge CGC but they quickly jumped off the deep end to the point I pass on all their books these days. CGC has changed a bit at times like you pointed out it’s like following weather patterns at times with their grading changes but overall they haven’t jumped the shark to the point I want to jump off. Honestly even when they follow their grading standards to the letter there will always be defects that are deal breakers for me but perfectly acceptable to someone else so I don’t ever seeing anyone pleasing all of the people all of the time…

[lou_fine]

4 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I am really looking forward to the 50s Batman's.  Hopefully there will be a few in the 7.5 to 8.5 range that are "affordable":

If there are any, they will most likely be encased in shiny new CGC 9.0 to CGC 9.4 Pedigree slabbed holders though.  

[aardvark88]

5 hours ago, batman_fan said:

I am really looking forward to the 50s Batman's.  Hopefully "affordable":

Reminder that the Promise video stated the pedigree collection had a hard stop in 1950 so you may have a limited # of Batman or Detective Comics to snipe.

[bpc3qh]

Overgraded, undergraded, that Solomon Grundy book looks real freaking sweet to me.

[lou_fine]

9 minutes ago, bpc3qh said:

Overgraded, undergraded, that Solomon Grundy book looks real freaking sweet to me.

I imagine you must be referring to this absolutely gorgeous and stunning All-American 61 book here, with the classic Solomon Grundy cover:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/miscellaneous/all-american-comics-61-the-promise-collection-pedigree-dc-1944-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175041.s?ic10=AllCategoriesResults-ItemImageDesc-05051

 

Makes me wonder who's the lucky guy (was it Veryzl ) that has the CGC 9.8 graded copy stashed away into their own private personal collection and if it's the Edgar Church copy of All-American 61?