Valiants mentioned in the 2003 Overstreet market reports

[valiantman]

Be like me and just collect the damn things, and argue about the impending market crash.

 

Does 25 long boxes count?

 

 

Ok, here we go..."Be Like Joe" class 101...

 

Can you believe this [!@#%^&^]?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2168115151

 

Why not just throw your money onto the freeway???

This Yu-Gi-Oh market is gonna CRASH!

 

 

 

...hey, here's a question... why can we post the word 'damn'...

but I can't say 'c r a p'? (because the board "bleeps" it out!)

[COI]

CI, a little off topic, but I was wondering;

 

I know Byrne X Men's mean a lot to you, but why do you keep buying them if you already have a "storehouse" full of them, and don't care about investment/value. Is it a case of "nothing exceeds like excess"? Just wondering.

[Lofwyr]

One of the key elements to the early Valiant reader/collector base was that it was much older than the regular crowd. Older adults, greybeards and fogies were the target audience, and it wasn't until Wizard got into the speculation act, that the readership got younger.

I think you hit this nail right on the head Joe. I'm only 25, when valiants were red hot I was about 14-15 years old and a freshman in high school. I used to go out and buy comics everyday. The only reason why Valiants attracted my attention in the beginning was the massive money hype behind it. I bought a few issues and thought it was decent writing. However, the other kids I knew were buying the issues and bagging/boarding them for speculation purposes. Little kids speculate too you see it all the time with Magic the gathering, Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh cards. I think everyone that ruthlessly speculated on the product became disinterested with comics after the crash and won't be coming back. The "new" revival hype i'm seeing seems to be mainly from shop owners and a few cliched internet comic book nerds trying to hoard variants to create artificial supply shortage. They generate hype then dump on ebay to watch the suckers swarm for it bidding up prices on dead books. People keep remarking about the scarcity of valiant issues. It's interesting how the scarcity has become almost the central focus for collectability. Sound familiar?

 

 

 

 

[Aman619]

Ahhh, where is 'The Good Skin' now that we need it??

 

I was very surprised by all the Valiant pushing in the New Guide! Where did that come from? But--just this week JC posted some Overstret Market Reports from years ago--and their predictions for the near future were just as off-the-wall....and WRONG-headed!!

 

So take it with a grain of salt..I have no idea what he is smoking lately!

 

Valiants WERE great stories in the very beginning. It was the quality thet feuled the speculator craze that followed...which made them 'scarce' (and I do remember some scuttlebutt about fudged print run figures---Shooter was very clever in creating a demand with perceived shortages similar to how Jemas is now creating some heat with REAL short runs...). AND, they were initially championed by us older readers to whom they were a real breath of fresh air compared to the churned-out humdrum Marvel/DC [!@#%^&^] at the time. The "kids" followed as they became the comics to buy that would "go up!" (in price).

 

AND, as we see from the 20 year rule, every dog has its SECOND day when they become collectible again by the same 'kids' when they grow into money to burn.

 

But--- until then (at least Ten Years After (rules!!) I dont see this article sparking more than this silly thread we are all adding to tonight! IMHO

[shadroch]

It strikes me strange that today,the day the general comic population gets its hands on the long awaited price guide, a thread about Valiant should prove one of the most popular.I guess there is a whole lot of passion for these suckas. Pro or con, these books certainly seem to have their advocates. Wonder if any marketing folk are watching?

[musicmeta]

I believe the pre-Unity Valiants will be bring pretty good prices ONLY if they can get a lot more exposure. Another publisher needs to take some of the characters like X-O, Magnus, Harbinger..etc and put out some great comics with decent stories and art just like the Jim Shooter days. If that happens, I see the Valiant values taking off.

I still think they are great investments because they have such GREAT stories and pretty decent art. It was a great comic universe. I just enjoy going back and re-reading my pre-Unity Valiants.

[joe_collector]

>>I know Byrne X Men's mean a lot to you, but why do you keep buying them if you already have a "storehouse" full of them, and don't care about investment/value. Is it a case of "nothing exceeds like excess"? Just wondering.

 

Excellent question.

 

The reason I have so many Byrne X-Men raw books is because a) I bought a lot initially, b) I continued to buy NM runs mail-order, thus filling some early holes and doubling/tripling up on others and c) when I buy sets, I can't bring myself to sell or give away the X-Men.

 

Now the reason I buy CGC X-Men is a bit strange, since I've got most of the issues in NM or NM/M condition. It started off with buying a few that I was unsure of (123, 135, 135) and it turned into a side-hobby of collecting them all in CGC NM 9.4/9.6. Not for value or investment by any means, just something to keep me busy, though I'm not insane enough to go into the 9.8 waters.

 

I just nab nicely-centered, deep-color, no white-border CGC 9.4 or 9.6 copies when they come up, and find many to be nicer looking and more aesthetically pleasing than the many 9.6/9.8 "white border/color faded beauties" I've parsed through.

[delekkerste]

I think everyone that ruthlessly speculated on the product became disinterested with comics after the crash and won't be coming back.

 

I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one. I'm not arguing that pre-Unity Valiants aren't a great read, but many of the former Valiant buyers were speculators, not readers, and given the huge withering of the speculator/reader/collector ranks since the early 1990s, I think that many of these people have soured on the hobby, developed new interests, and are out of comics for good. When these '90s kids come of age, it's far from a sure bet that they will go back and buy '90s comics, let alone Valiant comics (particularly if the Valiant characters remain out of the limelight and if new comic unit sales in general continue on their downward trend).

 

Gene

[joe_collector]

That's kind of what I was getting at. For those who bought them off-the-shelf, the Valiant speculator/foil-enhanced/limited edition [!@#%^&^] that followed on the heels of the infamous Bloodshot #1 and Turok #1, caused most readers to drop the line. I sold, turned the money into Bronze, and don't have positive feelings about the comics due to this.

 

For kids who fell for the speculator scam, and got reamed out when the bubble burst, I seriously doubt they look back at that era with fond memories of Valiant.

 

The only people I see buying Valiant are naive speculators who actually believe the fudged "low print run" BS that Shooter was selling, and do not understand that even perceived rarity does not directly influence value or price.

[Kevin Boyd]

I think it's unlikely that they will resurface again anytime in the new future. Acclaim Entertainment seems happy NOT to do anything with the properties except as a source for possible video game materials, such as their fairly successful Turok games.

 

Unless Acclaim can be convinced to either (a) sell the licenses (b) sub-license them out to another company or © start publishing again, then we won't be getting any new comics material with Solar, X-O, Shadowman, et al.

 

Plus, who do you revive? V1 or V2 versions? Or do you just start over again with the best of both worlds (V3)? I'm sure that they will reappear at some point, as I believe there is enough of an undercurrent of interest to warrant a revival.

 

Kev

[vic6string]

Hey Joe, if this "insipid conversation" bothers you so much, why do you keep following it? If everyone else is so obviously off their rockers for being even the least bit interested in Valiant books, why bother posting? In fact, if all I did was count the number of times everyone posted to this board, it would look like you were one of the most interested parties in this conversation.

[OldGuy]

"You're right, if people want to toss their money out on the freeway, who am I to tell them not to."

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. Lord knows I've tried.

[Kevin Boyd]

Well, I personally bought and read many Valiant titles before the V2 relaunch. I did not buy into the hype but got in around the time of the Unity crossover and found the books to be quite enjoyable reads. I went back and got some of the first issues before the big-time speculators hit. I never got into the variant editions.

 

As with most Marvel and DC titles I bought what I liked and ignored what I didn't. What was unusual was that there were a higher ratio of likes over dislikes. I don't feel that any point I was ripped off or forced into buying something which I didn't like or want until the V2 relaunch which did not interest me at all.

 

Valiant comics did not drive me away from the hobby. In a lot of ways they kept me IN the hobby during the early 1990's because Marvel (in particular) was publishing pretty lousy comics.

 

As mentioned before I did read many V1 titles thru to their completion and found that many of them (especially Turok - Rags Morales did some great work here, very much in line with his current Hawkman material) were excellent comics.

 

I still look back fondly on those books and would definitely be interested in a revival of the V1 versions of the characters.

 

Kev

[joe_collector]

>>If everyone else is so obviously off their rockers for being even the least bit interested in Valiant books, why bother posting?

 

It's like an insane asylum, and when things get really crazy, the guard needs to dole out a few whacks with the nightstick.

[plitch]

Hey Kev -- just putting this out there:

 

We've been grading a lot more Valiants lately... there must be a reason...

[joe_collector]

Wizard getting ready to run another Valiant Speculation piece?

[Lofwyr]

Wizard getting ready to run another Valiant Speculation piece?

 

When has Wizard ever been right about anything? They are probably the most useless collector's mag ever. I buy it once every 2 years to read about current releases I don't know about. At least they talk about indie titles now and then otherwise I would have dismissed their mag as a company shill for CGC long ago. It annoys me how speculator happy Wizard is. They are always pumping up hype for a particular run or issue. Today it's ultimate spider-mans tomorrow it's probably something else. It ruins the comic industry in the long run and drives readers out who don't have the inclination or necessity to play the silly money game everytime.

 

 

 

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

My god... never thought I would be in this position. Actually defending Wizard magazine!

 

Since Wizard is the ONLY magazine out there promoting this hobby on the FRONT lines (i.e. to the mainstream audience at regular retail outlets) they get a little respect from me. That and they put on two (now three) top-notch comic shows per year. I won't knock them for promoting mainstream comics because if someone comes into a comic shop to buy a book they read about in Wizard then hopefully they will be exposed to other (and hopefully better) material and be exposed to people who can help them learn about the hobby and the industry.

 

The unresearched articles, the fictional price guide, the unrepentant hype, etc. are not good for the hobby, I'll give you that. But until someone else challenges Wizard with a superior product then I will continue to give Wizard magazine some kudos.

 

And no... the Comics Journal, Alter Ego, Comic Book Collector, Comic Book Marketplace and even the Comic Buyers Guide are not the front line of comics journalism because they sell their product only in specialty stores thru Diamond distributing. They preach to the converted.

 

Kev

 

 

[valiantman]

Ignoring the Wizard discussion...

since Wizard hasn't even LISTED Valiant comic prices in years...

 

The real question is...

When is the best time to build a private collection that has personal meaning?

 

If you really want to own a full-run, or runs of particular titles or a universe...

 

Should you get them right off the stand? (Isn't that too soon to judge them as a whole?)

 

Should you sit back and wait until they've established the universe? 2 years? 5? 10?

 

Should you wait until they're 30 years old...and the prices start moving through the roof?

 

For Valiant...it's obvious that whoever bought Valiant in 1992-1994 didn't necessarily

do so because they loved the stories and wanted to own the universe.

Prices went "too high, too quickly"... and they inevitably had to fall.

 

Since Valiant essentially died in 1996, both as a universe, and as a collectible...

It became clear that not only would there be a "finite Valiant collection",

it would also be possible to get them all for cover price or less.

 

In 2003, it's been 12 years since the beginning of the Valiant universe,

and 7 years since the end of it. Prices are still around cover price...

and the early stories are still as good as they've always been.

 

If, and this is THE BIG IF...

IF someone actually WANTED a Valiant collection,

when should they start building it?

[Kevin Boyd]

This is an odd tangent... but I'll play.

 

The best time to start collecting a comic title or books from a company, a comic universe, balls of lint, whatever... is when it gets your attention and maintains your interest.

 

Kev