Batman #608 for over $500! 3 3

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

19 hours ago, bababooey said:

Well the one seller has sold three so he must have access to the warehouse.........more importantly, have you made note of how much this one 'buyer' loves this particular book !!!    

I don't pay much attention to the non-Spidey super duper rare variant books that are so important, maybe I should do some research at least until my posts go on "automatic hold for moderator review" in this thread. 

http://offer.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&showauto=true&item=282392947211&rmvSB=true

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/222460041430?item=222460041430&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

http://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/282426980780?item=282426980780&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565

All closed sales and feedback left on both sides, several months to a year ago.  

Have you seen any of the books re-listed on eBay or elsewhere that you can provide links to ?

-J.

Edited

Why would I bother?  You'd just dismiss it by arguing that the buyer who has bought three copies and essentially established this new market price chose to 'let one go' for whatever reason and then you'd repeat the latest 'sales' figures over and over again......the bottom line is your counter-point on eventual re-sale is irrelevant and has no bearing on whether these sales I linked are worthy of scrutiny.
 
Also, you can't point to feedback as proof of a legitimate sale when you've dismissed the lack of feedback as a red flag on many, many transactions in the past, I acknowledge that feedback both ways is certainly a positive aspect when evaluating the legitimacy of a sale, but we're not talking about an unsophisticated single digit feedback shill here either.  I'm still not totally convinced these results aren't legitimate but I don't like cozy buyer/seller relationships when record prices are the result.

If you want to believe there are no shenanigans behind two people (a three time buyer and a three time seller) establishing the "market" price on a book that doesn't sell that often, so be it, I'm certainly not posting here to try to change your mind about it but I am free to share information that I feel is questionable in nature so that others can take it into consideration - whether they feel the sales history is valid or not is up to them.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, bababooey said:

Why would I bother?  You'd just dismiss it by arguing that the buyer who has bought three copies and essentially established this new market price chose to 'let one go' for whatever reason and then you'd repeat the latest 'sales' figures over and over again......the bottom line is your counter-point on eventual re-sale is irrelevant and has no bearing on whether these sales I linked are worthy of scrutiny.
 
Also, you can't point to feedback as proof of a legitimate sale when you've dismissed the lack of feedback as a red flag on many, many transactions in the past, I acknowledge that feedback both ways is certainly a positive aspect when evaluating the legitimacy of a sale, but we're not talking about an unsophisticated single digit feedback shill here either.  I'm still not totally convinced these results aren't legitimate but I don't like cozy buyer/seller relationships when record prices are the result.

If you want to believe there are no shenanigans behind two people (a three time buyer and a three time seller) establishing the "market" price on a book that doesn't sell that often, so be it, I'm certainly not posting here to try to change your mind about it but I am free to share information that I feel is questionable in nature so that others can take it into consideration - whether they feel the sales history is valid or not is up to them.

Yes, sure.  Nobody likes rare and impossible to find Batman or Spider-Man variants, got it.

And I know it doesn't matter to you how few copies are actually sold or even offered for sale, whether or not the same book ever actually reappears for sale, whether or not positive feedback is left on one of both sides, what GPA decides to report, or even if the buyer and seller both come on these very boards and tell you what happened and what was paid.  It's all just a big conspiracy, and none of it is real in your mind's eye.  

Got it.  

Carry on.

-J.

[bababooey]

18 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Yes, sure.  Nobody likes rare and impossible to find Batman or Spider-Man variants, got it.

And I know it doesn't matter to you how few copies are actually sold or even offered for sale, whether or not the same book ever actually reappears for sale, whether or not positive feedback is left on one of both sides, what GPA decides to report, or even if the buyer and seller both come on these very boards and tell you what happened and what was paid.  It's all just a big conspiracy, and none of it is real in your mind's eye.  

Got it.  

Carry on.

-J.

[SquareChaos]

It quickly becomes very difficult to have a real conversation on here concerning certain topics... I mean, outside of just running around and cheering as the numbers get ever higher that is.

Anything else... well, with some people the discourse gets ad hominem really quickly 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Look at the date this thread was originally started.  People(ie, haters) have been saying the same basic since 2003.  That's nearly 14 years now. 

Frankly, at some point, it gets old.  And I think we are about a decade past that point now.  

-J.

[SquareChaos]

16 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Look at the date this thread was originally started.  People(ie, haters) have been saying the same basic since 2003.  That's nearly 14 years now. 

Frankly, at some point, it gets old.  And I think we are about a decade past that point now.  

-J.

This is the tactic - basically just confidently state that the person you disagree with said things they never said, just imply they were crapping on the book and... viola! No need to dispute any points that were made, no need to have a big boy conversation, no need for much of anything, these responses might all be saved in a text file for easy cut and paste replying since they're the same basic 

[Jaydogrules]

14 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

This is the tactic - basically just confidently state that the person you disagree with said things they never said, just imply they were crapping on the book and... viola! No need to dispute any points that were made, no need to have a big boy conversation, no need for much of anything, these responses might all be saved in a text file for easy cut and paste replying since they're the same basic 

I think we're in agreement.  It's the same basic .  We just may disagree which direction the  is actually coming from.  

-J.

[SquareChaos]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

I think we're in agreement.  It's the same basic .  We just may disagree which direction the  is actually coming from.  

-J.

Glad to see you finally admit to your tactics at least.

[Jaydogrules]

3 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

Glad to see you finally admit to your tactics at least.

I have no "tactics".  When I respond it is commensurate with the person I am responding to.  And I responded to babooey as well, asked him to provide any evidence of re-lists if he had any, which of course, he doesn't.  Instead he did, essentially what you are accusing me of doing, but naturally you don't say anything about that to him, because you generally subscribe to the same anti-big-money-ulra-rare-variant narrative that he does.  

And like I said, it's old.  2003-old.   

-J.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[bababooey]

Well I don't usually bother with these non-Spidey threads but it took me about five minutes to scroll back a few pages (edit- page 5) and find where someone had linked to a sales result & voila...

Remember that same e-bay buyer who bought three copies recently for crazy prices...turns out he was previously a seller of this book.  Now I'm pretty sure that will be meaningless to someone like @Jaydogrules but I will let the others reading this make their own decision on whether or not sales history for a book that is rarely traded should be trusted when that history seems to be derived from the actions of a handful of people.
You can also see another sale in his feedback but I can't bring it up to view it, the listing was #181625967734 

Edited July 22, 2017 by bababooey

[Jaydogrules]

31 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Well I don't usually bother with these non-Spidey threads but it took me about five minutes to scroll back a few pages and find where someone had linked to a sales result & voila...

Remember that same e-bay buyer who bought three copies recently for crazy prices...turns out he was previously a seller of this book.  Now I'm pretty sure that will be meaningless to someone like @Jaydogrules but I will let the others reading this make their own decision on whether or not sales history for a book that is rarely traded should be trusted when that history seems to be derived from the actions of a handful of people.
You can also see another sale in his feedback but I can't bring it up to view it, the listing was #181625967734 

Wow that's shocking.  Someone who may or may not trade in rare variants may have sold another copy ( not the same copy, mind you) at some point in the last seven years.  

You're really onto something now. 

What must you think of Golden Age guys who literally openly trade the same copies of rare pre Robin Tecs (as an example) amongst themselves over and over, or those same copies that appear on comic connect and heritage within one year ?  My god ! 

 And there have been far more than the (actually two) sales you think were made by the one buyer.  Check GPA for the full accounting of other record breaking sales across multiple grades and label types, and then make mental note of the in total of 0 CGC copies currently available on eBay to explain why this book has been blowing your mind since 2002. 

-J.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[bababooey]

23 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

48 minutes ago, bababooey said:

Well I don't usually bother with these non-Spidey threads but it took me about five minutes to scroll back a few pages and find where someone had linked to a sales result & voila...

Remember that same e-bay buyer who bought three copies recently for crazy prices...turns out he was previously a seller of this book.  Now I'm pretty sure that will be meaningless to someone like @Jaydogrules but I will let the others reading this make their own decision on whether or not sales history for a book that is rarely traded should be trusted when that history seems to be derived from the actions of a handful of people.
You can also see another sale in his feedback but I can't bring it up to view it, the listing was #181625967734 

Wow that's shocking.  Someone who may or may not trade in rare variants may have sold another copy ( not the same copy, mind you) at some point in the last seven years.  

You're really onto something now. 

What must you think of Golden Age guys who literally openly trade the same copies of rare pre Robin Tecs (as an example) amongst themselves over and over, or those same copies that appear on comic connect and heritage within one year ?  My god ! 

 And there have been far more than the (actually two) sales you think were made by the one buyer.  Check GPA for the full accounting of other record breaking sales across multiple grades and label types, and then make mental note of the in total of 0 CGC copies currently available on eBay to explain why this book has been blowing your mind since 2002. 

-J.

Edited 15

So is that the sort of response you were "setting me up for" with your repeated requests for a evidence of re-listing?  Glad I could help you get that off your chest.   

Bottom line, one e-bay entity is pretty deeply involved with this book's sales history. 

[Jaydogrules]

31 minutes ago, bababooey said:

So is that the sort of response you were "setting me up for" with your repeated requests for a evidence of re-listing?  Glad I could help you get that off your chest.   

Bottom line, one e-bay entity is pretty deeply involved with this book's sales history. 

One guy (maybe) bought and sold tbree unique copies in seven+ years and you believe that constitutes being "deeply involved"?   

I know for a fact that as recently as about two years ago the boardie nWo  (John) had three unique copies himself at once.  He sold two on the boards and almost sold a third raw copy to Jerome  (Lethalprotector) when he was trying to track down a slabbed 9.8 copy (which he was finally able to do after looking for one and advertising in the WTB section for nearly a year). And, just like your example, that doesn't prove anything, let alone demonstrate any nefarious or questionable activities.   I just think you're grasping at straws here because you don't like what the book (and other big money rare variants) sell(s) for. And like I said before, that's soooo 2003.

-J.

[darkstar]

When someone routinely spends their time crying foul over popular books that are heating up being the result of shilled listings on eBay, it becomes quite interesting when that same person takes every step possible to denounce any notion of the idea that one of his coveted investments may be the target of price manipulation. But I suppose when you've anointed yourself as the gatekeeper for these books that you'll do anything to protect said investment. It does seem quite silly to suggest that a far more common and inexpensive book like Rick and Morty 1 or ASM 300 is being subjected to eBay shilling while at the same time dismissing the idea that a far more rare, and expensive, book is being similarly targeted. Especially when one accepts the idea that it is far easier to create a false trend and sales data for a book where the number of available copies is small. But of course any questionable listing or sales data/trend can be pushed aside; nothing more than the result of a skeptic having an irrational hatred for an inanimate object. It must be quite difficult to get around in a world where the one way street is king.   

[Jaydogrules]

Easy.  Unless the same book is being re-listed after a shill bidder "wins" an auction and/or multiple copies flood the market in a proximate time frame after the fact (which actually has happened with that Rick and Morty variant, and others), then where's the shilling ?  Quite to the opposite of your point (?) the common books that everybody has in bulk are the very sorts of books that are easiest to shill with the most upside.  When a book only sells a few times a year, it's a hundred times easier to spot a re-list from a fake sale- something that has not happened here, despite the tiresome oblique suggestions otherwise.  The book sells for a mint.  Deal with it and move on with your life.  

And the notion of an ebayer (maybe) buying and selling three different copies over a nearly eight year time span demonstrating something questionable is so demonstrably preposterous it does not even warrant a serious response.  

-J.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[bababooey]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

One guy (maybe) bought and sold tbree unique copies in seven+ years and you believe that constitutes being "deeply involved"?   

There were three recent purchases and two sales from years ago. Two of his recent purchases were from a party who has sold other copies.  There were no subsequent relistings from the latest purchases.  Do you bother to click the links?  

Edited July 22, 2017 by bababooey
Typo

[Jaydogrules]

16 minutes ago, bababooey said:

There were three recently purchases and two sales from years ago. Two of his recent purchases were from a party who has sold other copies.  There were no subsequent relistings from the latest purchases.  Do you bother to click the links?  

Yes this is one of the books that i follow.  I'm familiar with those sales and the 8 others that have happened in the last 12 months in multiple grades and label colours.  

One person buying two copies of the same book is not proof of anything. Again, there are boardies who will tell you that they have bought this book every time they see a copy, either to flip or slab and flip.   So what ?   The problem comes when it's the same 0 and/or low feedback bidders "winning" books at unsupported amounts and then seeing that book re-listed.  That's the purpose of shilling.  To create a false demand and/or false FMV on a book for subsequent sales.  How many listings on eBay do you see for this book right now?  I just see the one 9.6 Voldy copy with 65 watchers.   And even if the buyer of the two 9.8 copies decided to sell one at this point, several months after the fact, that doesn't prove anything either, since he arguably got a deal on it, since subsequent 9.8 copies have sold for more than he paid for his.  The appetite for the book appears insatiable (the raw copy was pushing  $1000 after less than a day before the seller pulled the auction).  This is the single most coveted Batman variant that there is, and really, the only one that is worth anything significant.  Thanks to the differing way DC has released their variants compared to Marvel over the years, this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who follows the modern market, forget about variants, just the modern market, period, in general.  

-J.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[Lazyboy]

1 hour ago, darkstar said:

When someone routinely spends their time crying foul over popular books that are heating up being the result of shilled listings on eBay, it becomes quite interesting when that same person takes every step possible to denounce any notion of the idea that one of his coveted investments may be the target of price manipulation. But I suppose when you've anointed yourself as the gatekeeper for these books that you'll do anything to protect said investment. It does seem quite silly to suggest that a far more common and inexpensive book like Rick and Morty 1 or ASM 300 is being subjected to eBay shilling while at the same time dismissing the idea that a far more rare, and expensive, book is being similarly targeted. Especially when one accepts the idea that it is far easier to create a false trend and sales data for a book where the number of available copies is small. But of course any questionable listing or sales data/trend can be pushed aside; nothing more than the result of a skeptic having an irrational hatred for an inanimate object. It must be quite difficult to get around in a world where the one way street is king.   

Even if everything is totally legit, it shows how shallow the market really is for some items when one or two guys are involved in many of the transactions for that item, especially on the buying side.

I recall another niche years ago where one guy was going after basically every copy available. Then he stopped and prices dropped. Then he sold and prices dropped more.

[Jaydogrules]

I can't believe you just used the words "niche" and "shallow" with anything having to do with the demand for Batman.

You are aware that Batman epemera has at least a little more demand than Maxx ashcans, right ?  

-J.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[darkstar]

It seems certain people don't understand that there are eBay buyer and seller teams that work together to create false, publicly accessible, sales data on items and then use that data to not only push further sales on eBay but also privately through black pools wherein expensive items are bought and sold to avoid middlemen and oversight. Lazy shilling where a user simply creates a second account to bid up his own listing is not the limit to scamming people on eBay.

It seems certain people also don't understand that this is not the only Batman variant that commands a good amount of money, as the Batman Grendel silver ashcan exists. And if that book existed in 9.8 and was hyped publicly anywhere close to what has happened with Batman 608 then its price would undoubtedly surpass the RRP to 608.