ANOTHER auction ended early - X-Men #94

[heartened]

Rumor has it he only paid $6000 for the page...

 

A rumor that isn't true.It was more than you all think.

 

Whatever it was, it's less than it's worth. I'm sure Mark wouldn't pay more than he thinks it's worth. It is not a Grail for him, so he wouldn't have overpaid for personal reasons.

[delekkerste]

Rumor has it he only paid $6000 for the page...

 

Not true.

[mister_not_so_nice]

What was it? I had heard the 6k value thrown around too.

 

Yeah, I read that someplace too.

 

Oh yeah, on the first page of this thread

[jjeanius]

Whatever it was, it's less than it's worth. I'm sure Mark wouldn't pay more than he thinks it's worth. It is not a Grail for him, so he wouldn't have overpaid for personal reasons.

 

Exactly. Again, I'm glad it went to such a good home.

[COMICKINGS]

 

Whatever it was, it's less than it's worth. I'm sure Mark wouldn't pay more than he thinks it's worth. It is not a Grail for him, so he wouldn't have overpaid for personal reasons.

 

Mark has overpaid many times on art and people thought he was nuts but nobody ever talks about that. I'm sure the people he overpaid on some things he's bid ridiculously on never gave him any money back after the auction. But let him make a score once in awhile and see how he gets clobbered by everybody. Lay off the guy!

[jjeanius]

 

Whatever it was, it's less than it's worth. I'm sure Mark wouldn't pay more than he thinks it's worth. It is not a Grail for him, so he wouldn't have overpaid for personal reasons.

 

Mark has overpaid many times on art and people thought he was nuts but nobody ever talks about that. I'm sure the people he overpaid on some things he's bid ridiculously on never gave him any money back after the auction. But let him make a score once in awhile and see how he gets clobbered by everybody. Lay off the guy!

 

WOW. Talk about totally missing the point.

[COMICKINGS]

Oh,I get the point genius. I'll email somebody in a heartbeat with an offer to end an auction. Early bird gets the worm. You're stuck in those Fairy Tales you've been collecting. This is the real world. Ebay is a business to sell collectibles. BUSINESS. Not a hobby/trade network. They practically promote emailing bidders directly with their,end auction to the high bidder option. So what this piece isn't a GRAIL for the guy that got it. It's a hot item that will maybe lead to a grail. Not everybody on Ebay is a doctor,or has been an established art dealer for 25 years,and can afford to sit around and play snipe at the very end. When you are into a market where there's big money to be made,and something nice hits the table,you gotta be the first to make a move,and hopefully be the one to come out with the prize. I would love to see the list of known people that also emailed this guy before and after it was sold. Mark is just the one that got it.If stuff like this hurts your feelings and you get all bent over it,maybe collecting butterflies is more your speed.

[comix4fun]

How about everybody take a deep breath?...I sense this is about to get personal and that won't forward the discussion. There is really no call for it.

 

Some people may think that enticing someone to pull a piece off of Ebay is unethical, while others may not. Everybody gets it. No amount of bluster is going to change anyone's mind.

 

Personally I never understood the logic the seller would use in pulling a piece down, if a few people are talking about large offers I would tell them to bid their max and do their best. It doesn't seem to get the seller the max dollars out of the piece.

 

Chris

[clickhere-migration]

Other than contacting someone saying:

 

"Please do not end this auction early as I plan on bidding a large amount"

 

or

 

"I am planning on bidding at least (insert amount) please do not end it early"

 

I think that end auction early offers suck.

 

It is an AUCTION. Not a best offer early sales.

 

Hey let's all bombared Heritage with offers prior to next weekend on the next signature auction! Then let them laugh at us. ssheesshh.

[Timulty]

Well, I can understand why some people might pull a piece off of ebay. Those pesky fees on large items would be part of it, I suspect.

[jjeanius]

Well, I can understand why some people might pull a piece off of ebay. Those pesky fees on large items would be part of it, I suspect.

 

I disagree. eBay final value fees on high dollar items average about 3%. So let's say, just for argument's sake, that the seller accepted an offer of $8000, but that the piece would have reached $10,000+ if the auction had run it's course. Sure, the seller saved $300...but would have received a bid $2000 higher. Does that make sense to you?

 

COMICKINGS: I already CLEARLY stated that, while Mark is the most "visible" example of this behavior (for the X-Men piece, the Miracleman cover, and whatever else...), it's the actions taken that I disagree with, not simply this one individual. Perhaps you forget, but eBay is for AUCTIONS. I don't mind getting outbid...if someone else is willing to spend more on a particular butterfly than I am, then I guess he gets it...I just don't like people trying to circumvent the system simply for monetary gain. For me this is a HOBBY, and I enjoy it immensely...but I'd hope that I could leave the real world BUSINESS of cutthroat dealings and back room shenanigans at my day job. I guess this is too much to hope for.

 

And don't worry, I already knew where you stood before you started talking down to me on this board. I remember you getting attacked for similar bidding practices by members of the valiant boards a few years ago. It's good to see that nothing has changed in either your behavior or in the way you treat your fellow board members. I'm just glad I don't share any of your collecting interests.

[COMICKINGS]

I already knew where you stood before you started talking down to me on this board. I remember you getting attacked for similar bidding practices by members of the valiant boards a few years ago. It's good to see that nothing has changed in either your behavior or in the way you treat your fellow board members. I'm just glad I don't share any of your collecting interests.

 

Oh,but you do share the smart [embarrassing lack of self control] remarks...

 

#1 example...

 

At least it's nice to know that it went to a good home and not to someone just trying to flip it for a buck....

 

#2...

 

well, at least he's a very humble person whose site name doesn't imply the least bit of arrogance.

 

#3...

 

he just saw an opportunity to pull the rug out from under everyone else, and then put an even higher price tag on it himself.

 

#4...

 

Again, I'm glad it went to such a good home. "

 

 

Everybody realized how you felt about the guy after the 2nd blast.Shut up already.I like the guy.He's a friend of mine.Why is it ok for you to drag somebody across these boards,but when somebody speaks up for the guy,you get all defensive?

 

 

...what's that saying about glass houses?

[M2]

Well, I have made a point to defend myself. Usually, in a public forum like the internet, rumors and gossip are the norm. But, for those that would like to know, read on. And for those that would prefer to have their own thoughts, disregard the below. In fact, don't even waste your time reading it.

 

I have been collecting comics since 1975. Started collecting original art only 10 years ago. Very late to the game in my opinion as it took 20 years to realize the art was available (I was BIG into still photography starting 1977), so I am the insufficiently_thoughtful_person. Never met Kirby or Buscema (can you imagine didn't even know they were in the same building in 1988 and 89) at my first couple of San Diego Cons as I ran around looking for certain comics.

 

90% of my collection of art is from LIVE auction houses. It always seemed I was one of the few people that was willing to pay more than that other person at the LIVE auction because I felt it was worth whatever it took. Hell, it was one-of-a-kind not one of the better conditioned books, etc.

 

Well, like everyone else (well not really) I became aware of eBay early on and loved the auction format. I would anticipate the end of the eBay auction, check out where the auction was at maybe the day of it's conclusion or even sometimes a few hours before it was about to end.

 

As time went on, I noticed more and more the auctions were being pulled. I thought I had a very good chance of winning and here they were gone and I had zero chance. So, how did I combat that? Well, I thought it would not be out of line to start writing to eBay sellers and asking them this question:

 

Are you going to let the auction run to it's completion?

 

I would say that for the most part, they all answered yes. And I won my fair share of auctions that were completed.

 

Then, about 2 years ago, I noticed I was still getting the answer Yes alot, but the eBay sellers went against their answers a lot more often. Maybe 40% of time they told me yes, the auction is staying up. And when I would get those emails stating my auction bid has been cancelled. I would write to the seller asking him; "What happened?" Usually, they came back with; "Yeah, I know I said I would leave it up, but I got a great offer." Quite a few of the times, it turns out they accepted offers that were less than I would have been willing to offer if I knew they were taken offers.

 

Hence, I have adjusted once again to this present conditions. If one does not adjust I guess one can give up as the other option.

 

The question I ask nowadays:

 

Is there a price I can offer that you would be happy with to sell the item versus completing the auction? It's that simple. I am not aggressive. I am not rude. If the person says they are going to keep the auction up, I ask that they please do, but if they are going to change their mind, it would be appreciated if they could please send an email and I would get back asap. That's it.

 

The X-Men 94 page seller told me he had offers of $4k and $6k. I asked the question is there a price I can pay that he would be happy with. He did what others mostly do. He left it up to me to better the offers he currently had. In my opinion, I blew away the offers he had with my offer. He apparently agreed.

 

I do not like doing this, but apparently if I stand pat, I will reduce my chances to zero on most items. I am looking for art on my Want List, but very rarely find any available for sale. Thus I put things up as Trade Offers as usually they are items on my Want List also, but I hope they will help me obtain in a trade pieces that folks won't sell currently for cash. But, because I now have something on their Want List, maybe they would be willing to possibly to a deal.

[scourge456789-migration]

Well, I have made a point to defend myself. Usually, in a public forum like the internet, rumors and gossip are the norm. But, for those that would like to know, read on. And for those that would prefer to have their own thoughts, disregard the below. In fact, don't even waste your time reading it.

 

I have been collecting comics since 1975. Started collecting original art only 10 years ago. Very late to the game in my opinion as it took 20 years to realize the art was available (I was BIG into still photography starting 1977), so I am the insufficiently_thoughtful_person. Never met Kirby or Buscema (can you imagine didn't even know they were in the same building in 1988 and 89) at my first couple of San Diego Cons as I ran around looking for certain comics.

 

90% of my collection of art is from LIVE auction houses. It always seemed I was one of the few people that was willing to pay more than that other person at the LIVE auction because I felt it was worth whatever it took. Hell, it was one-of-a-kind not one of the better conditioned books, etc.

 

Well, like everyone else (well not really) I became aware of eBay early on and loved the auction format. I would anticipate the end of the eBay auction, check out where the auction was at maybe the day of it's conclusion or even sometimes a few hours before it was about to end.

 

As time went on, I noticed more and more the auctions were being pulled. I thought I had a very good chance of winning and here they were gone and I had zero chance. So, how did I combat that? Well, I thought it would not be out of line to start writing to eBay sellers and asking them this question:

 

Are you going to let the auction run to it's completion?

 

I would say that for the most part, they all answered yes. And I won my fair share of auctions that were completed.

 

Then, about 2 years ago, I noticed I was still getting the answer Yes alot, but the eBay sellers went against their answers a lot more often. Maybe 40% of time they told me yes, the auction is staying up. And when I would get those emails stating my auction bid has been cancelled. I would write to the seller asking him; "What happened?" Usually, they came back with; "Yeah, I know I said I would leave it up, but I got a great offer." Quite a few of the times, it turns out they accepted offers that were less than I would have been willing to offer if I knew they were taken offers.

 

Hence, I have adjusted once again to this present conditions. If one does not adjust I guess one can give up as the other option.

 

The question I ask nowadays:

 

Is there a price I can offer that you would be happy with to sell the item versus completing the auction? It's that simple. I am not aggressive. I am not rude. If the person says they are going to keep the auction up, I ask that they please do, but if they are going to change their mind, it would be appreciated if they could please send an email and I would get back asap. That's it.

 

The X-Men 94 page seller told me he had offers of $4k and $6k. I asked the question is there a price I can pay that he would be happy with. He did what others mostly do. He left it up to me to better the offers he currently had. In my opinion, I blew away the offers he had with my offer. He apparently agreed.

 

I do not like doing this, but apparently if I stand pat, I will reduce my chances to zero on most items. I am looking for art on my Want List, but very rarely find any available for sale. Thus I put things up as Trade Offers as usually they are items on my Want List also, but I hope they will help me obtain in a trade pieces that folks won't sell currently for cash. But, because I now have something on their Want List, maybe they would be willing to possibly to a deal.

 

Mark,

 

Whats the story with those Super Hero Marvel stamps ? Are they the real deal?

[M2]

Hi. Yes, they are the real deal. I bought them when they were all on one sheet. Spent a little over $900 getting them all framed up individually. Very unique and pretty cool.

[*paull*]

Mark, did you read the thread where the stamps were discussed?

[M2]

I heard from others what someone was saying. But, up until today, I never took the energy to respond. The stamps are real. Dated 1/9/64 on the reverse of the sheet. Not sure if just Kirby, Wood & M. Severin but for the majority of the 36 stamps, those are the folks that worked on them. I do not visit here that often - Unless folks are telling me that someone has said this or that, so if you have questions or comments, feel free to email at: journey2@mindspring.com

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[otherworldsj33]

I generally feel that ending a auction early is unethical. If the seller ends it early due to a offer from a buyer, it seems to me like the piece was in reality ADVERTISED on ebay, weather that was the intention or not, and it goes against the spirit of what a auction is about. I don't like it as a seller, and I have always refused to end early in the few times I was asked, and I have never inquired as a buyer/bidder..I don't know the federal laws regarding this subject, but if I was a decision maker for ebay, I would have strong penalties against ending auctions early. To me, this is just another example of money and greed taking precedence over principals.

[Mister Trent]

I heard from others what someone was saying. But, up until today, I never took the energy to respond. The stamps are real. Dated 1/9/64 on the reverse of the sheet. Not sure if just Kirby, Wood & M. Severin but for the majority of the 36 stamps, those are the folks that worked on them. I do not visit here that often - Unless folks are telling me that someone has said this or that, so if you have questions or comments, feel free to email at: journey2@mindspring.com

 

Sincerely,

Mark

 

Mark

 

I originated that discussion on this forum: "The Original MARVEL COMICS Silver Age STAMPS Artwork", which is still up for viewing on - and I've brought that topic back to this opening page of the OA forum..

 

There is nothing new there, that doesn't echo views I expressed to you via private e-mail a few months back when you posted some of this art on CAF (see my comments appended to your DAREDEVIL stamp, for example).

 

In essence, I very much doubt that the stamps date from 1/9/64 - despite any date that may have appeared on the reverse (was this date hand-written?) and, as you've now confirmed, the stamps were originally drawn on one sheet (as opposed to individually). The work, for the most part, is poor (badly drawn/badly lettered) and I think it's stretching credulity a bit far to suggest that the likes of Kirby, Wood and Severin all worked together on one piece of art - creating ("first time pencil to paper") Silver Age appearances of the likes DAREDEVIL, CAPTAIN AMERICA, etc.

 

Your DAREDEVIL stamp, for instance, is (so very obviously) based on the character's RED costume that debuted in DD # 7 - yet, you insist it pre-dates DD # 1, and the YELLOW costume??? So, if I was to subscribe to your claim, it seems as though Wally Wood contributed a drawing to this series of stamps of a character yet to appear (and when he did appear, only to have a different costume and to be drawn firstly by Bill Everett and, secondly, Joe Orlando)

 

The fact that you have these stamps on your FOR TRADE section of your Web site seems to suggest you consider them important/high-ticket items? As such, I think it is important that would-be-traders/buyers are open to what, exactly, is on offer - and if the're what you claim them to be . . . and, like I say, I very much doubt that the date/artists you suggest are factual.

 

Terry Doyle