Important information about storing comic books in fire proof/resistant safes

[Aman619]

most bank safe deposits vaults are open all day long, so the air inside cant be too stagnant. Might be wet though.

[BronzeBruce13]

Related Article currently in the latest Scoop

 

GPA's and CGC's going out soon...

 

 

[codfish]

I still think it is a red herring. Moisture released by these safes should be easy to deal with. I have read countless articles online posted by users of these safes that all admit moisture is present but with proper precautions metal objects, stamps, and other such "fragile" materials can be kept safely in these safes.

 

That the Hulk books were manufactured with bum staples doesn't fly with me either. It would be a spectacular coincidence that just one single HG issue in a fire safe would corrode more rapidly than the likely thousands of others that are out there in inadequate storage conditions.

 

I was given several early Daredevil's that had been stored in really poor and moist conditions for probably the same amount of time and in a much more oxygen rich environment and not one single copy had rusted out staples ... or rusty at all. This is despite showing moisture stains on most of the rest of the book.

 

One only has to google to find that moisture IS present but there are ways to deal with it. Publishing articles about fire safes with woefully poor research is just not wise. It is great that they are warning people that their MAY be an issue it would be really good to find out more facts.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Red Hook]

I do have to agree with the Cod. Instead of rushing to lay total fault on the safe manufacturers, I think a more thorough analysis is due.Seems like it's all getting wrapped up too neatly and too quickly.

 

Red

[BronzeBruce13]

Cod & Red... believe me, I'm not wrapping anything up.

 

I think if anything "sinister" is at play here, it will certainly reveal itself over time if that's what either of you are suggesting? For me personally, more examples of this same corrosion would need to surface (with similar history) before I would start to openly/publicly speculate in that direction. The possibility of a chemical interaction with certain safes or types of safes (fire-proof) has also been raised, so I'm not sure how anyone would get the idea that any conclusions have been reached and that mositure is the lone culprit?

 

Also, I mentioned that the other 3 books, while thankfully just showing the very beginnings of rust/corrosion, would no doubt (at least to me) look like the 182 in time had they been left in safe. Now that may actually support your speculation (if I understnd you) to a degree as 1 of these books was from the same source. The other 2 are unidentified (submitter-wise) at this point, but I am "trying" to find out.

 

Right now I'm concentrating on getting the word out to others that have their books stored similarly and are unaware of the possible risks. I'm not providing answers/solutions as i just don't have any. I also have not had enough time and opportunity to do much more than I am already am with my other real-life responsibilities. I welcome any and all assistance in researching this issue further.

 

Part of my efforts are to make all safe owners (that have valuable comics/collectibles in them) to be aware that they should check their comics asap all things considered as time may be an issue. Others could have the beginning signs of a problem or would have had one had they not taken any action. If that turns out to be the case... "waiting" to produce a more thorough and better researched article would not seem to have been a wise decision to me.

 

I just want everyone to have their "guard up" and to research their safe in more detail and not assume everything will be OK. For instance, certain safe owners may not realize that they are required to routinely "air out" their safes. Another (which may be a very crucial point) is that, like myself, other safe owners may not be aware that desiccants actually expire an need to be changed periodically. I had no idea and don't see that tidbit in my manual.

 

Understand, I'm not saying that this information is not available within the respective manuals in some cases, or through research. That said, others, like myself, may NOT have had enough information presented in their safe manuals and thus may be operating under a false sense of security. Simply put, I don't want anyone else to suffer any losses as I have if this issue turn out to be exclusively related to the safe (unsafe) environment.

 

Steve Borock and I kicked around some ideas and are going to do some tests with my safe. He will be sending me various inexpensive slabbed and unslabbed comics to put in my safe under the same conditions (virtually unopened for any signifcant lenght of time with the same silaca gel packets that are probably expired) and we'll see what we learn.

 

This remains an open investigation in my mind and I plan to keep my eyes (and mind) open on the subject... and again welcome any and all assistance gathering information.

[Red Hook]

Thanks for the update Bruce.

 

After the events of last summer, I'm just a little hesitant to take official explanations as gospel.

 

I wasn't suggesting in any way that you, personally, were being anything but "above board".

 

 

Brad

[codfish]

Bruce might I suggest in your tests:

 

1. To test the possibility of bum staples try and obtain another Hulk book.

 

2. Obtain some of the indicator dessicant like this one http://www.drierite.com/catalog3/page4b.cfm the faster it becomes exhausted the more moist the environment is.

 

3. Try and find some other chemical indicator strips that could test for other thigs such as pH, H2S (hydrogen sulfide) and other vapours that may be off gassed that are corrosive. Maybe the safe company may even be forthright and tell you what MAY be off gassing besides just water vapour.

 

One of the things that is bothering me is that for water moisture to help create rust oxygen must be present and I was always under the impression that safes of any kind should be relatively airtight. So the reason I say test for other gases is that gases like H2S do not need oxygen to work their "magic" they just need exposure to an unprotected metal surface (since it is and acid). Water vapour will also not require as much oxygen if protective layers are removed fom the metal surface. That is why I say test books with cleaned staples.

 

My understanding is that you did have dessicant in the safe so unless you did not change it regularily or there is a whopping huge amount of moisture in the inner safe chamber I really don't think moisture would be the culprit. I find it so odd there were no moisture effects on the books since I would think a very humid environment would have to cause such defects.

 

Also, wouldn't microchamber paper deal with some of the other gases too? I know that slabbed books are not hermetically sealed or anything but wouldn't their design stil make the exchange of gases very slow? Could there be some chemical treatment gassing off the slabs causing this effect?

 

So many questions.

[codfish]

How about Safe Deposit boxes? Since they are in Bank vaults that look like they might be airtight, can a similar thing happen to books stored in safe deposit boxes?

 

Interesting note to this question. I was watching a program on National Geographic channel here in Canada and it was called the Gospel of Judas. Back in 1978 an old codex was found in Egypt that ultimately was determined to be the Gospel of Judas. The final leg of its odd journey was from Egypt to New York where the Egyptian collector tried to sell it to a University but failed. He placed it in a Bank Safety deposit box and ther it sat for 16 years. Do you know what the end result was? Not moisture damage at all. It dried out and crumbled into thousands of pieces.

 

Just FYI

[eaglessbchamps-migration]

i recently ordered fireproof safe from heritage(before these posts) to store things, comics included, but we also got the dehumidifying machine thing that is going to be inside of it, so I am quite interested in seeing any new news for it to be safe to store them in there for long-term. I emailed Heritage, the safe company, and waiting for a reply.

[BronzeBruce13]

Thanks for your input Cod... and link.

 

I will definitely be testing a variety of raw and CGC'd books in the safe as mentioned. I'll try and see if I can locate a low grade hulk 182 as well. I will also place an order for the indicator dessicants.

 

As for the chemical indicator strips, I'll need to do more research unless you or someone else can make a suggestion.

 

 

Bruce might I suggest in your tests:

 

1. To test the possibility of bum staples try and obtain another Hulk book.

 

2. Obtain some of the indicator dessicant like this one http://www.drierite.com/catalog3/page4b.cfm the faster it becomes exhausted the more moist the environment is.

 

3. Try and find some other chemical indicator strips that could test for other thigs such as pH, H2S (hydrogen sulfide) and other vapours that may be off gassed that are corrosive. Maybe the safe company may even be forthright and tell you what MAY be off gassing besides just water vapour.

 

One of the things that is bothering me is that for water moisture to help create rust oxygen must be present and I was always under the impression that safes of any kind should be relatively airtight. So the reason I say test for other gases is that gases like H2S do not need oxygen to work their "magic" they just need exposure to an unprotected metal surface (since it is and acid). Water vapour will also not require as much oxygen if protective layers are removed fom the metal surface. That is why I say test books with cleaned staples.

 

My understanding is that you did have dessicant in the safe so unless you did not change it regularily or there is a whopping huge amount of moisture in the inner safe chamber I really don't think moisture would be the culprit. I find it so odd there were no moisture effects on the books since I would think a very humid environment would have to cause such defects.

 

Also, wouldn't microchamber paper deal with some of the other gases too? I know that slabbed books are not hermetically sealed or anything but wouldn't their design stil make the exchange of gases very slow? Could there be some chemical treatment gassing off the slabs causing this effect?

 

So many questions.

[codfish]

I will look into test strips for other chemicals. There may such item in some of our supply manual in our lab. I have to go near work tomorrow so I will stop in, if I remember, and grab the catalogs. I would gladly help in research too I I had access to a fire safe. I have plenty of books that I could sacrifice to better our knowledge base.

 

 

[georgehagenauer-migration]

Very interesting as I've been planning to get a fire resistant file cabinet-though mainly for art not comics, Did the comics rust in spite of being encapsulated i n a CGC capsule? or were they just in regular mylar

 

BestGeorge Hagenauer

[adamstrange]

Very interesting as I've been planning to get a fire resistant file cabinet-though mainly for art not comics, Did the comics rust in spite of being encapsulated i n a CGC capsule? or were they just in regular mylar

 

BestGeorge Hagenauer

 

They were in CGC holders.

[maxstuf]

After reading this thread I thought it best if I checked a few of my books. So far no problems but My safe is not one of the types mentioned here. Here is a pic that shows how I keep some of my books.

 

[Mr. Zipper]

After reading this thread I thought it best if I checked a few of my books. So far no problems but My safe is not one of the types mentioned here. Here is a pic that shows how I keep some of my books.

 

 

You might want to uncock the Ruger before placing in on the scale.

[maxstuf]

Thanks I wondered if any one would notice. It was done on purpose.

[CW]

Is that a P90? I have one in my safe. And the charter arms is a nice touch.

[Mr. Zipper]

Is that a P90? I have one in my safe. And the charter arms is a nice touch.

 

My P89 is under my pillow.

[Red Hook]

I have a stick.

[mica]

I have a stick.

You might want to upgrade.