CGC Research & Development for Shaken Comic Syndrome?

[Wally's Comics]

Does anyone know if CGC has done any R & D for SCS?

 

If not, It would make sense to do so... Right?

 

 

Either CGC is overgrading a lot or it is SCS...

 

I wonder how many trips on average a book can take before it shows some SCS?

 

There have been a lot of interesting threads on the overcurculation

of SCS books because collectors are flipping hoping to snag a better copy.

 

I wonder what would be a good solution for this?

 

Are the "better" cases working?

 

Would a information database be useful where an owner gets place in a databank for ownership and each time an item is mailed the owner can sent CGC an update

that it has been mailed and the new owner could do the same thing when he decides to sell and mail it... thus keeping track of the number of times a cgc

book has been through the system.

 

maybe this is just too difficult to ask people to do, but I feel that CGC's

rep could be way tarshed down the road if this situation remains dormant.

 

 

what's your take?

 

 

[arexcrooke]

To do R&D on SCS CGC would have to admit that it happens. This is something that I dont think that they have ever acknowledged.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Most SCS can be 'fixed' through the practice of spot pressing. Since pressing is not considered resto by CGC, it has become the band-aid solution to the continued incidence of post-slabbing damage.

[Wally's Comics]

To do R&D on SCS CGC would have to admit that it happens. This is something that I dont think that they have ever acknowledged.

 

If that is the case then we should create a stance on the issue...

 

 

SELLERS: I say let's start with a book CGC 9.8 and when ever we sell a book to board members that sell - include the book with the shipment of other books. Then keep a log on how many times

the book was sent and where. And scan the book whenever the book is receieved and post it...

 

Anyone want to participate? I mean we are looking at a couple of $'s here but it's better than nothing being solved about it...

 

I say you can get a nice 9.8 for $20-30 bucks (or less) then send it to the an honest seller that would participle and he would send it to other honest sellers in the chain...

 

Honest Sellers: What do you say?

 

LET'S SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!

 

 

 

 

[osborn_fr]

Too bad the pictures are not here anymore, but Ze-man started this thread a few years ago...

 

Mylar -VS- Inner Well, A simple SCS Experiment.. results inside

[sterlingcomics]

Too bad the pictures are not here anymore, but Ze-man started this thread a few years ago...

 

Mylar -VS- Inner Well, A simple SCS Experiment.. results inside

 

In fact, that thread actually helped aid CGC in fixing SCS for Modern books. Since Modern books aren't usually thick, and that Moderns in general aren't expensive, they have actually implemented a well that applies more pressure to the book, therefore eliminating SCS.

 

Now, older books are still being holdered in the older well. The logic, as told to me by Borock, is because that older books come in a variety of thick sizes (100 pagers, 80 pagers, 52 pagers, etc) and he believed the potential damage of causing staple tears etc was greater than SCS.

 

As everyone knows PGX uses the Modern well that CGC uses for ALL of their books, which is why there hasn't been any reported cases of SCS on PGX books (granted the number of PGX to CGC books is miniscule).

 

I started a survey a while back and it seemed given the threat of tears vs SCS that most collectors would rather take the risk of SCS. My problem is...just how bad is the threat of tears?

 

I personally think that they need to solve this problem once and for all, because considering the prices we generally pay for CGC books I expect better protection plain and simple.

[Ze-man]

Mandi is traveling the world as we speak, might take longer becasue of waiting for each Cap n mandi report......But it should be interesting to see how he fares after a year or so of traveling. And not only mailing the slab, but traveling around town with the person..similar to repeated Comic Con set up and take downs. I also dont think CGC has not addmitted SCS isn't real, only VERY minor vs the number of books they slab.

 

Osborn/Sterling,I was out of town last week when my webhost expired. Forgot to take care of it before I left town. Lost EVERYTHING, hundreds of photos in my public file. Only myself to blame

 

 

Ze-

[Davenport]

 

LET'S SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!

 

What mystery? It's been addressed on the record.

Steve Borock Interview

 

"That's what postal insurance is for, whether you ship you comic in a mylar, CGC case, or in anything else. CGC has certified over half a million comic books, if "SCS" was a major problem, we would be hearing it from every major collector and dealer in the country."

 

Holder R&D? Covered:

 

"That said, we are always trying to improve our holder and have offered some of the top engineers in the world "big money" to come up with something better and they cannot."

[Ze-man]

 

LET'S SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!

 

What mystery? It's been addressed on the record.

Steve Borock Interview

 

"That's what postal insurance is for, whether you ship you comic in a mylar, CGC case, or in anything else. CGC has certified over half a million comic books, if "SCS" was a major problem, we would be hearing it from every major collector and dealer in the country."

 

But HG collectors have complained. I just think alot of HG books do not lend themselves to SCS because they are well....in HG shape to start with. Not much overhang, tightly bound..etc..And besides arent the BSD the ones who are also cracking, pressing and resubbing books?( in general terms of course ) So a little corner bend would not make then cause a ruckus...just press that suckah out along with the other minor flaws..

 

 

And how exactly does one file a claim for a SCS case with the USPS?.. "Mr Postmaster..see that number on the CGC label....well it is not that number anymore becasue of that little ding in the URC..see right there...look closer. This book was worth $5,000 before I mailed it..now nobody will pay 5x guide for it because it has 2 new dings."

 

Is that possible?..has anyone ever filed such a SCS based claim, and won?Grading is subjective...so doesnt that mean all bets are off unless the slab was smashed by a worker going..postal?

 

 

Ze-

[DawgPhan]

 

LET'S SOLVE THIS MYSTERY!

 

What mystery? It's been addressed on the record.

Steve Borock Interview

 

"That's what postal insurance is for, whether you ship you comic in a mylar, CGC case, or in anything else. CGC has certified over half a million comic books, if "SCS" was a major problem, we would be hearing it from every major collector and dealer in the country."

 

But HG collectors have complained. I just think alot of HG books do not lend themselves to SCS because they are well....in HG shape to start with. Not much overhang, tightly bound..etc..And besides arent the BSD the ones who are also cracking, pressing and resubbing books?( in general terms of course ) So a little corner bend would not make then cause a ruckus...just press that suckah out along with the other minor flaws..

 

 

And how exactly does one file a claim for a SCS case with the USPS?.. "Mr Postmaster..see that number on the CGC label....well it is not that number anymore becasue of that little ding in the URC..see right there...look closer. This book was worth $5,000 before I mailed it..now nobody will pay 5x guide for it because it has 2 new dings."

 

Is that possible?..has anyone ever filed such a SCS based claim, and won?Grading is subjective...so doesnt that mean all bets are off unless the slab was smashed by a worker going..postal?

 

 

Ze-

 

Of course no one has filed a claim about SCS with the USPS because you cant file a claim with the USPS for SCS. The insurance at the post office covers the item if it is lost or damaged during shipping and when I say damaged I mean by them in something that occured outside of normal shipping. A box could be in pretty shape when it is delievered but in fact have SCS. No way is the USPS going to pay that claim. As far as they know the box arrived in the same condition. The SCS is caused by poor packing and not the fault of the USPS.

 

The issues is this is happening, people are talking about it and Steve decides to talk out of his [embarrassing lack of self control] again and deny that it really happens...big surprise there..

[Davenport]

 

But HG collectors have complained. I just think alot of HG books do not lend themselves to SCS because they are well....in HG shape to start with. Not much overhang, tightly bound..etc..And besides arent the BSD the ones who are also cracking, pressing and resubbing books? So a little corner bend would not make then cause a ruckus...just press that suckah out along with the other minor flaws..

 

Ze-

It seems fairly clear cut. If a comic book slides around freely inside an enclosure with hard sides then the paper will impact the harder surface. Repeatedly. Light impacts or hard impacts, depending on movement of the assembly. And shifting responsibility for movement-results to Postal Services is, well, convenient.

 

[nearmint]

And how exactly does one file a claim for a SCS case with the USPS?.. "Mr Postmaster..see that number on the CGC label....well it is not that number anymore becasue of that little ding in the URC..see right there...look closer. This book was worth $5,000 before I mailed it..now nobody will pay 5x guide for it because it has 2 new dings."

 

If the CGC holder was crushed, you might have some luck. But, I think it would be very difficult to collect on a claim where SCS occurred, but the holder was unharmed(which is usually the case).

 

I wonder if CIA(Collectibles Insurance Agency) would pay claims for SCS.

[drbanner]

In my experience, if your book suffers SCS during shipment from CGC to you, CGC will compensate you for the damage. I suspect they would not provide compensation for any SCS after that point as they have no control over how the book is subsequently handled.

[DawgPhan]

In my experience, if your book suffers SCS during shipment from CGC to you, CGC will compensate you for the damage. I suspect they would not provide compensation for any SCS after that point as they have no control over how the book is subsequently handled.

 

You are right...which makes it even funnier that they deny SCS being a problem when I know that they have made payments to people to cover books basically destoyed from SCS. Books that have yet to be replaced in that grade, books that might never be replaced in that grade...I am sure that CGC's accountant knows about SCS and I am sure that they plan to pay a certain % every year for it...why not just admit it?

[Ze-man]

 

But HG collectors have complained. I just think alot of HG books do not lend themselves to SCS because they are well....in HG shape to start with. Not much overhang, tightly bound..etc..And besides arent the BSD the ones who are also cracking, pressing and resubbing books? So a little corner bend would not make then cause a ruckus...just press that suckah out along with the other minor flaws..

 

Ze-

It seems fairly clear cut. If a comic book slides around freely inside an enclosure with hard sides then the paper will impact the harder surface. Repeatedly. Light impacts or hard impacts, depending on movement of the assembly. And shifting responsibility for movement-results to Postal Services is, well, convenient.

 

 

 

You are preaching to the choir Daven, Long ago I was a main agitator in the SCS battle. I hate the whole innerwell concept. As you said..Paper meet Hard Edge...not a big mystery who will lose everytime. Paper

 

After all the dust settled back then it became clear that there is no 100% safe way to slab a comic in a semi-permanant enclosure without some type of damage happening at some point. And if there was I bet Steve and Co. would buy the rights to it if it were made available to them and it was coff coff..cost effective.

 

To CGC's credit after the SCS stink was raised they did create alot of new sized innerwell blanks to be used to better fit the book being slabbed to avoid it sliding aound inside the well. Those wedges were just fugly.

They now send back alot more books unslabbed because they exhibit traits that slabbing would exasperate.

They created PCS to make money on SCS related dings ..oh wait, that one got nixed.

They even heat sealed the label into the innerwell after I whined like a little girl for months on end about it floating around loose in the innerwell. We can make a difference by debating topics like this, but in this case I think all that can be done, has been done.

If CGC really think's SCS is not that common, or they just cant/wont say so because it is simply bad press is anyones guess. But the die is cast, the mold is made and the Slab is here to stay until new technology comes around to make it obsolete. I hope that day comes, as does CGC I imagine. Because then everyone will want all their books re-slabbed in the new spiffy safer holder. Wait a second... Was this all part of the plan all along?

( I'm kidding)

 

Bottom line. Some books will suffer, some wont.

 

On the flip side how many books have avoided damage besause of the hard outer shell when being mailed countless times? The slab itself is flawed, but still does a pretty good job overall considering what we are putting in them.

 

Ze-

[arexcrooke]

Ive got a Thor 193 that was a 9.4 before SCS mucked up the top edge of the back cover. Now it is a 9.0 and free from its plastic case.

[Wally's Comics]

Ive got a Thor 193 that was a 9.4 before SCS mucked up the top edge of the back cover. Now it is a 9.0 and free from its plastic case.

 

I can't believe that you didn't just flip it and lay those problems on someone else...

 

 

[jbud73]

Here is my latest victim. FYI, this is the Pacific Coast copy of ASM 99. Its in the OHOD (Old holder of Death) and has been tossed around the collecting community a fair bit. I am the 5th owner, that I know of - though I'm keeping it, a tangent issue that I'm interested in is what everyone thinks the responsibility of the seller is to disclose SCS??? Lets just say I was unaware at the time of purchase

 

[Ze-man]

I would love to see a scan of it when it was slabbed, or close thereafter.(I assume it was sold on Heritage/Clink/Pedigree?) Do you happen to have the grading notes to compare what damage was there pre slabbing?

 

For your loss..

 

 

 

 

Oh and to answer your question, I think that is almost a form of non disclosure. Selling a slab with a small scan because it has been graded by CGC, "If it says 9.6 on the label, then by god what else do you need to know?"

 

We already have NDP, why not NDSCS

 

You say you bought it unawares, did the seller you bought it from do this in some fashion? Or was it dinged enroute to you?

 

Ze-

[jbud73]

I called for the notes and there were "no notes" given for the book, all they know is that Steve was the finalizer. With the other visible defects I seriously doubt that TLC was factored into the original grade.