Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[agro23]

First issue Marx toys, original cast iron coin banks, some U.S. coins, dolls--er--action figures like Barbie & G.I Joe as mentioned, Hot Wheels, Dinky Toys, Coca Cola merchandise, colonial furniture, colonial silverware, humels and other collectible porcelin, the list goes on.

 

The "first in the field" issue doesn't hold back Obadiah. The "is it a comic book?" argument holds it back.

 

Antiquarian book collectors are into the Victorian and Platinum comics moreso than are comics collectors (and I will go out on a limb and say that will be always be the case). And it's a good thing too so that people like me can dabble and get fair prices forever.

 

Could you just see something like The Brownies: Their Book worth as much as say Batman #1? No? Good.

[buttock]

It is not my intention to preach or persuade.....

 

Bull

 

All you've done is preach and make a convoluted and misleading argument about how great your book is. You manipulate everything to make your particular OO (a reprint by definition) seem like something it isn't. (just look at how you twist things in the response to Earl without answering any of his questions).

 

Lies, lies, and more lies.

[showcase4]

You manipulate everything to make your particular OO (a reprint by definition) seem like something it isn't. (just look at how you twist things in the response to Earl without answering any of his questions).

 

Lies, lies, and more lies.

 

Well Buthead ( Freudian slip... meant to say Buttock), sounds like you need to spend more time with a therapist, and less time on the boards. Find 1 single lie in my post, and I will acknowledge you as right....

[OldGuy]

there is no Superman without Obadiah Oldbuck...you can't have a comic book superhero without a comic book existing in the 1st place

 

Then where did OO come from.........

[OldGuy]

I am an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and stupid, eh?

who you are is speaking so loudly, no one can hear what your saying.

You are living proof that there are no eduactional or social requirements to partcipating on the CGC Boards.

 

Thank you Mr. Punctuation, Capitalization, and Spelling!

 

[comicdonna]

Showcase- are there any collectible fields where the 'first' in the field holds close to the top value in that field? I can't think of any. I agree with a previous poster that Victorian Age comics have more a a historical museum curiousity appeal that will never appeal to the 'mainstream' comic book collector.

Very nicely put. It's the comic collector, that set the standards of value on a comic book. For the most part, comic collectors are not interested in Victorian Age comics, no more than they are interested in most Dells. I have owned many 9.4 - 9.8 books including Tom Thumb, John Wayne, Zorro, Roy Rogers and many others. Beautiful books, that I had to practically give away. If I owned books like Amazing Fantasy #15, Fantastic Four #1, Amazing Spiderman #1, X-men #1, Hulk #1 in the same condition, I would be able to retire by now.

[showcase4]

Obadiah Oldbuck came from a publisher in New York named Wilson and Co. They published the humor magazine Brother Jonathan, and Obadiah appeared in a special supplement ( Extra No. 9 ) dated September 14th, 1842. Obadiah Oldbuck was created by Topffer, and was originally printed in Europe in the French language. Wilson and Co. translated the comic to English...and viola! ...America had its 1st comic book. The fact the a previous edition was in french is not relevant....what is relevant is that an American publisher printed the comic, and it was in English. This is what makes it America's 1st comic..printed in the United States, for the United States, in our language.

[mica]

Scans?

[CentaurMan]

You know, I'm just not seeing it. Sure, it's a book in which a story is told in sequential pictures, in a panel format. Great. But that sounds to me more of a precursor to other modern books that have a similar style (such as the Calvin & Hobbes compilations), not magazine-style comic books. And since it's just a translation of an earlier foreign edition, it's really more like a precursor to an Asterix & Obelix book than a Calvin & Hobbes book.

 

My whole collection is very early comic books. Generally speaking, if it's from 1941 it's too recent for me. I'm a huge fan of the earliest forms of the Comic Book genre. And let me tell you, I have no interest in this Obadiah Oldbuck thing. I think showcase's strident explanations of its significance are misguided, and I think the odds of Golden Age comic collectors adopting it as a book of relevance are very, very low.

 

Maybe you should find a board devoted to collectors of early Asterix & Obelix books (translated into English, or course, since OO isn't even the original edition) and explain to them how without OO none of their stuff would have ever happened. You might get traction there.

[showcase4]

You know, I'm just not seeing it. Sure, it's a book in which a story is told in sequential pictures, in a panel format. Great. But that sounds to me more of a precursor to other modern books that have a similar style (such as the Calvin & Hobbes compilations), not magazine-style comic books. And since it's just a translation of an earlier foreign edition, it's really more like a precursor to an Asterix & Obelix book than a Calvin & Hobbes book.

 

My whole collection is very early comic books. Generally speaking, if it's from 1941 it's too recent for me. I'm a huge fan of the earliest forms of the Comic Book genre. And let me tell you, I have no interest in this Obadiah Oldbuck thing. I think showcase's strident explanations of its significance are misguided, and I think the odds of Golden Age comic collectors adopting it as a book of relevance are very, very low.

 

Maybe you should find a board devoted to collectors of early Asterix & Obelix books (translated into English, or course, since OO isn't even the original edition) and explain to them how without OO none of their stuff would have ever happened. You might get traction there.

 

 

This is actually more simple than it appears. Some comic book had to be the 1st...it may look different, feel different, have a different binding and page count, but there is a 1st comic book out there. In the case of the United States, it is "The Adventures of Obadiah Oldbuck". The book has the most appeal to a collector of historically important comic books...this is a different mindset then most collectors, who are looking for the intro of a key character as in All American 16, or a classic cover as is the case with Supense 3. If you don't appreciate comic book history, then Obadiah is not going to do much for you. To see a fairly clear image of the front cover and interior page art, you can go click on the "Contact Me" tab at my website:

www.VictorianAgeComics.com

[CentaurMan]

If you don't appreciate comic book history, then Obadiah is not going to do much for you.

 

See, it's comments like that which raise my blood pressure. I very much appreciate comic book history, and I have minimal interest in OO because in my mind it's clearly not a comic book. To imply that my lack of interest in OO is due to a lack of interest in comic book history is insulting.

 

We can debate whether OO "should" be interesting to people like myself who love the very earliest comic books, but to question my motivation for liking comics (claiming that people who don't like OO must be focused on 1st appearances or key covers instead of history) is ridiculous. I love the oldest comics, even the ones with crappy covers and irrelevant characters, and I couldn't care less about this particular translated book with cartoons in it. Them's the facts.

[showcase4]

If you don't appreciate comic book history, then Obadiah is not going to do much for you.

 

I very much appreciate comic book history, and I have minimal interest in OO because in my mind it's clearly not a comic book.

 

And herein lies the debate....."in your mind" it's not comic book. This is not the 1st time I've heard this. The truth is, no one persons mind is what defines Obadiah Oldbuck as a comic book or not a comic book...the industry has, and scholars have, and Overstreet has, and Universities have,...etc etc

[SuperBird]

nevermind, found it

[CentaurMan]

Yes, and wise people can reject the conclusions of "scholars", as they've been doing for ages, when those conclusions are potentially falacious. Nothing more close-minded than someone who believes everything he reads when his eyes clearly tell him something different. OO is so clearly not a comic book to me that showing someone's written opinion as "proof" claiming it to be such is laughable.

 

This is ridiculous. We're into religion now, not science. You believe one thing, we believe something else. So be it. Foisting your cult-like beliefs on others is of course going to be met with resistance.

[showcase4]

Obadiah Oldbuck for the FINAL time ( at least by me ) is DEFINATELY a comic book! Here are this COMIC BOOKS characteristics:

 

1. comic art by Topffer

2. comic art tells a story in a sequential series of single panels

3. each panel contains Toppfer art and tells a story ( in English ) with printed words at the bottom of each indivual panel, corresponding to the art.

4. 40 pages - made of hemp paper / hemp cover

5. 8 1/2" by 11" ( roughly )

6. has a spine , front and rear cover, and publishers info

7. published by Wilson and Co. of New York City

8. was distributed after printing to the public

9. story has a beginning, middle, and end - told in pictures and words

10. is dated --- September 14th, 1842

 

IF THIS IS NOT A COMIC BOOK, THEN WHAT IS IT ????

[mica]

Not to offend Centaurman, but I lean towards it being a comic book.

And I have no problem with it being thought of as a comic or protototype comic.

I also don't lump this book in with a Calvin and Hobbes because of it being a story and not a collection of dailies.

 

It's importance is another matter however.

 

Showcase-4 I would caution you against saying the statement about people that appreciate history should appreciate this book.

It does insult those that don't (even unintentionally)

 

Your book is nice. It's interesting. It's historic.

But it's not AS important as 30 other books that could and often are considered the top dog.

The word important itself means different things to different people.

It's nice to get a book you really like, so I'm sure you're pleased.

[showcase4]

Not to offend Centaurman, but I lean towards it being a comic book.

And I have no problem with it being thought of as a comic or protototype comic.

I also don't lump this book in with a Calvin and Hobbes because of it being a story and not a collection of dailies.

 

It's importance is another matter however.

 

Showcase-4 I would caution you against saying the statement about people that appreciate history should appreciate this book.

It does insult those that don't (even unintentionally)

 

Your book is nice. It's interesting. It's historic.

But it's not AS important as 30 other books that could and often are considered the top dog.

The word important itself means different things to different people.

It's nice to get a book you really like, so I'm sure you're pleased.

 

Thank for your comments, but just to clarify, I did not say people should appreciate this book. I said if you don't appreciate history, Obadiah is not going to do much for you...big difference

[agro23]

IF THIS IS NOT A COMIC BOOK, THEN WHAT IS IT ????

A book containing sequential art of a comic nature. But not in magazine form, hence not a comic book.

[mica]

I can appreciate history AND not think much of Obadiah.

It can be done.

I can appreciate comic history all the way back to Egyptian paintings inside a tomb, and still not devote half a footnote to Obadiah.

 

Your book is nice.

[seank]

 

Thank for your comments, but just to clarify, I did not say people should appreciate this book. I said if you don't appreciate history, Obadiah is not going to do much for you...big difference

 

I appreciate history and have written and published alternative history fiction. My bookshelf contains many volumes of American, Greek, and Roman history. I also appreciate comics and have written fiction and non-fiction related to comics.

 

Obadiah Oldbuck does nothing for me.

 

I have exactly zero Superman comics in my collection and as a matter of historical importance (IMHO)(financial factors ignored for the sake of argument), I'd rather have an Action #1 or a Superman #1 than an Obadiah Oldbuck.