My Response 9 9

[esquirecomics]

Let's not get crazy. Obviously the owner would have Hi-Res scans of such an expensive item for insurance purposes.

 

I wouldn't presume. Its not required to my knowledge.

[Mr. Zipper]

Geez, guys, its potentially a $3 million dollar book. One would think (hope even) it is very likely in a bank safety deposit vault. No way I would be rushing to go retrieve it, scan it, and risk possibly damaging it through the process for the mere sake that others want to see it.

 

It is a copy of Action #1. I bet anything it looks like other Action #1s, but just better condition. I'd love to see it myself, don't get me wrong, and I always post images of very expensive books that I own, but NOTHING I have comes even close to $3 million, much less even $200,000. World of difference.

 

Now if he already has a picture/scan of it from earlier days, that's a different story. I don't know.

 

Mark, I don't think anyone was expecting him to run out yesterday or today and scan it in response to this thread.

 

But haven't people been asking for years?

 

Given that he's owned the book for more than two decades and the number of people who have allegedly seen it can be counted on two hands, one must conclude he's not eager to let people see it.

[MK Ultra]

I think it's great that he doesn't let anyone see it. It's created a life of it's own. Keeps up the interest.

[esquirecomics]

Geez, guys, its potentially a $3 million dollar book. One would think (hope even) it is very likely in a bank safety deposit vault. No way I would be rushing to go retrieve it, scan it, and risk possibly damaging it through the process for the mere sake that others want to see it.

 

It is a copy of Action #1. I bet anything it looks like other Action #1s, but just better condition. I'd love to see it myself, don't get me wrong, and I always post images of very expensive books that I own, but NOTHING I have comes even close to $3 million, much less even $200,000. World of difference.

 

Now if he already has a picture/scan of it from earlier days, that's a different story. I don't know.

 

Mark, I don't think anyone was expecting him to run out yesterday or today and scan it in response to this thread.

 

But haven't people been asking for years?

 

Given that he's owned the book for more than two decades and the number of people who have allegedly seen it can be counted on two hands, one must conclude he's not eager to let people see it.

 

I understand. But this book for most of the last 25 years as been the, or close to it, most expensive comic book. No matter when the time was it was worth a significant amount of money. Perhaps when it was worth $26,000 I would be willing to risk getting it from the bank vault. Maybe even $250,000. But $1-3 million? No way.

 

Again, I don't know if he has a scan or photo or not, though if he does he has his reasons for not desiring to share it. Disappointing? Yes. Worthy of so much discussion and debate? Not really, IMHO. Deserving of disdain and anger towards him? No.

[The Black Hand ®]

I don't blame him for not showing it or scanning it. Can you imagine how many times he's been asked? I don't even like to scan my books for fear of fading the cover. Rational or irrational. I get nervous when people want interior shots because of stress put on the spine. One slip, one drop, one sneeze, one bend, one tear. I'd take a digital camera shot of the cover for insurance purposes, monitor the environment it's in and build up the suspense, cause if it has degraded to a vf+ or so, the value will plummet, better to keep everybody guessing. I absolutely don't blame him for not showing it. Personally, I don't care, I'm sure it looks like all the others.

[DeeDee-migration]

 

Robin had such a wide acting range in those days.

 

S

 

I for one, admire his tremendous versatility.

[Sid]

Thats a restored copy !

The sad thing is after all of my work on this a few months ago, Norinn Radd found this image online. It had already been done.

 

LMAO nice one

[Sid]

I don't blame him for not showing it or scanning it. Can you imagine how many times he's been asked? I don't even like to scan my books for fear of fading the cover. Rational or irrational. I get nervous when people want interior shots because of stress put on the spine. One slip, one drop, one sneeze, one bend, one tear. I'd take a digital camera shot of the cover for insurance purposes, monitor the environment it's in and build up the suspense, cause if it has degraded to a vf+ or so, the value will plummet, better to keep everybody guessing. I absolutely don't blame him for not showing it. Personally, I don't care, I'm sure it looks like all the others.

 

ditto.

[markseifert]

Given that he's owned the book for more than two decades and the number of people who have allegedly seen it can be counted on two hands, one must conclude he's not eager to let people see it.

 

Well, imo that's a separate issue from having a good pic of it in circulation.

 

In fact, you could certainly make a case that it's not a bad thing that he hasn't let too many people handle it. Even with experienced collectors, I'd be nervous about even the slightest bit of jostling (and an accumulation of such over time), let alone an accident of some kind.

 

That brings to mind another thing though -- I'd be curious to know details about what sort of preservation and climate control measures the book is contained in. A regular mylar inside a climate controlled vault, or something more/different?

[sacentaur]

Dave and I are obviously at odds, but nonetheless I would adamantly defend his right to do what he wants with his own book.

 

The Larson copy of Marvel Comics 1 was displayed (by that WalMart guy, IIRC) causing a major fade and a potential devaluation of the book by 10's of thousands of dollars. Bummer, huh?

 

I like to show off my books, Dave doesn't - that will never be a bone of contention with me.

 

I do understand others desire to see the Grail, but c'mon...he paid for the privilege of owning it, and shouldn't it be his book to do with as he very well pleases?

 

STEVE

[Monstro]

yup he definitely does, but to me it’s like catching a 15 pound bass on a lake by your self

[Pirate]

I'd rather have the cash in the bank personally

[Monstro]

x 100

[Ze-man]

 

Again, I don't know if he has a scan or photo or not, though if he does he has his reasons for not desiring to share it. Disappointing? Yes. Worthy of so much discussion and debate? Not really, IMHO. Deserving of disdain and anger towards him? No.

 

I hope for posterity's sake he has the book scanned and photographed 100 times over(safely and professionally). While this book may be his, it is bigger then him, me, you.. anyone. Of course it his right to do with as he pleases. But I hope for the sake of comicdom it has been recorded visually for future generations to see and enjoy.

 

Comics were meant to be enjoyed, yes the value of certain books makes them less approachable, but keeping them in a vault.... never to be seen is just a shame imho. Then again great art collections have always been that way. Museums hold a fraction of the great art in the world. But private collections, seen by only a chosen few hold unknown treasures only dreamt of by art lovers.

 

We are not so different it appears.

 

Ze-

[DeeDee-migration]

Dave and I are obviously at odds, but nonetheless I would adamantly defend his right to do what he wants with his own book.

 

The Larson copy of Marvel Comics 1 was displayed (by that WalMart guy, IIRC) causing a major fade and a potential devaluation of the book by 10's of thousands of dollars. Bummer, huh?

 

I like to show off my books, Dave doesn't - that will never be a bone of contention with me.

 

I do understand others desire to see the Grail, but c'mon...he paid for the privilege of owning it, and shouldn't it be his book to do with as he very well pleases?

 

STEVE

 

I realize that. Its his book and its obviously his right to decide what happens to it. He can write his name all over it if he wants to. But knowing you have something so special that means so much to so many, and refusing to share a picture of it just reminds me of that kid in kindergarten who has all these awesome toys but doesn't let anyone see them just because he can. Its not like we're asking him to let us touch it or handle it, just a pic for pete's sake. But whatever.

[batman_fan]

Having been on the boards for some time and taken my share of beatings for expressing my opinion and experiences such as CLINK screw-up, Showcase New England's non-disclosure of restored books even after it has been pointed out to them, CGC inconsistancies in grading. I have learned to keep my mouth shut, leave the problems hidden and move on. Steve has brought up issues he has had, many people have jumped to defend the people he has raised issues with. I can't speak for Dave Anderson as I have never dealt with him, but I have dealt with Metro over the years and have issues with their grading as well. What do you do? Well they have a return policy which a lot of people will beat off over, but who get stuck with the shipping charge? In my case, I did. For me, it is a waste of time and money to do business that way and I myself HATE the hassle of having to email or phone someone, be told why I am at fault but they will take it back and then go through the time and cost to do it. Now I am much more careful when buying. I want very large scans even in CGC holders since I think their grading is all over the map but their restoration check is pretty decent. After this post, maybe I won't have to worry about buying from Metro, but for the record, I have also had issues with their grading as well.

[steelhelmet]

First, I can't believe anybody would be ragging on Steve Carey.

 

He scans his books for us to see by volume. Nuff said.

Second, the books he was looking to sell to some BSD's are no-nonsense top-caliber.

But yet some still want to question the quality of said books.

THE BOOKS HE WAS LOOKING TO SELL WERE CONSISTENT IN QUALITY WITH HIS PERSONAL COLLECTION.

 

I would like to know if Ciorac is feeling particularly whole after recieving "chipped down the side Marvel keys" in exchange for his Bob Kane Batman painting, a crazy valuable piece?

7-day exchange/return policy? Maybe not this time? Hearing this made me angry at work thinking about this and it wasn't even my painting.

[ciorac]

First, I can't believe anybody would be ragging on Steve Carey.

 

He scans his books for us to see by volume. Nuff said.

Second, the books he was looking to sell to some BSD's are no-nonsense top-caliber.

But yet some still want to question the quality of said books.

THE BOOKS HE WAS LOOKING TO SELL WERE CONSISTENT IN QUALITY WITH HIS PERSONAL COLLECTION.

 

I would like to know if Ciorac is feeling particularly whole after recieving "chipped down the side Marvel keys" in exchange for his Bob Kane Batman painting, a crazy valuable piece?

7-day exchange/return policy? Maybe not this time? Hearing this made me angry at work thinking about this and it wasn't even my painting.

 

Carey is TOPS in my book.

 

I think shipping alone on the painting was hundreds of dollars. It was huge. I still feel I got the short end of the stick on that deal, because I did. But it was a long time ago and I don't dwell on it. The other thread about this topic reminded me of it and I shared my experience.

 

At least I still have a picture of it.....

[thedarkknight]

is it any wonder mr. anderson doesn't stay on these boards.

 

I agree.

 

Not to isolate any one person, but anyone who wonders why so many major collectors and dealers stay away from these boards just needs to read above at the childish and/or unnecessary banter that was posted by some people. Not only does this thread address a very serious issue between two collectors that has now unfortunately taken a public turn before resolution, but the response by others certainly doesn't encourage new forumites who wish to discuss serious issues to join these boards.

 

 

A lot of childish banter does take place on these boards, sometimes that makes them fun. Other times, tedious.

 

But to be fair Mark, in the area of disclosure you should applaud forumites who share their honest experiences with dealers. If they are being dishonest, then shame on them. But if someone has a legitimate beef or problem with a dealer that was not resolved to their satisfaction, then what is wrong with sharing that information? Even if it is with someone of renown?

 

I had a bad experience with Dave, does that make him despicable? No. Was it a crappy deal? Yes. Would I buy from him again? With caution, extreme caution.

 

As far as Steve Fishler is concerned, I may take issue with his grading sometimes (as I do with most people because I am harsh), but he is a very honest, forthright guy. In my dealings with him, that go back many years, he has always been straightforward with me, and stepped up to the plate to make things right when he didn't have to.

 

Not that he needs me to defend him, but if he did, I would.

 

My

 

No, no, you are misinterpreting the focus of my rant. It was not directed at Dave, or either Steve (although I personally did find Steve F's comments against Steve C. unnecessary (though I understand why), I did not find them childish as they clearly were substantive and dealing with the general issue). I was reacting to the majority of other posts that were nothing but goof ball comments that served absolutely no substantive purpose whatsoever. Those posts are quite clearly identifiable and were, no surprise, made by many of the same people who virtually always follow the same path.

 

I wholeheartedly encourage forumites to openly share their experiences, whether positive or negative, with dealers or other forumites.

 

And, yes, to those who mentioned it, this is a "message board" though I fail to comprehend why that means adults should act like *spoon*. Of course, as you say, sometimes that makes the boards fun but such conduct should take place in appropriate threads. There are numerous light-hearted threads created in this section but this thread was certainly not one of them. But to each his own. I'll primarily stay in the GA section where this conduct rarely surfaces.

 

I'm sorry, but I thought you were a lawyer. Try reading the Bill Of Rights. I appologize for sounding like a here, but when people talk about censorship, I get very angry. If you really meant it, shame on you. If not forgive me.

[sacentaur]

Thank you for the posts bat_fan, steel, and Bill, and others - much appreciated.

 

FYI, West at CGC has just notified me that the Adventure 60 I sincerely believed had some minor resto (gloss and seal) was resubmitted and came back Blue. I believe in full disclosure whether I'm right or I'm wrong, and in this particular instance, CGC says I was in error.

 

My apologies to Dave for including this book in the rest of the discussion.

 

STEVE