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Ronin- underappreciated? or underwhelming?
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132 posts in this topic

1. Master Splinter vs. Master Stick

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What is a good ninja without a wise Master? Originally the pet rat of ninjutsu Master, Himato Yoshi, Splinter trains the young Turtles into the ninja warriors we love. But, how did Splinter receive his name? Maybe it has something to do with Daredevil’s Stick, who is a Master martial artist and trainer of Matt Murdock, Daredevil’s alter ego.

2. The Foot vs. The Hand

The enemies in both franchises share a special relationship. In the Ninja Turtle world, The Foot Clan is a household name, lead by the infamous Shredder. This is a pretty clear parallel with Daredevil’s The Hand, which originally debuted in Daredevil #174. In both series, both groups of villains are pretty similar as a group of costumed ninja “bad guys”.

3. A Similar Origin

The best for last. The origin of Daredevil is pretty well known, where a young Matt Murdock is the victim of a chemical truck accident. A mysterious chemical splashes Murdock in the face during the accident, blinding him, but also hyper-attuning his remaining senses. The Ninja Turtles were created in a similar accident, where a truck loses a canister of ooze, which hits a young boy exiting a pet store. Although this boy is not hit directly by the liquid, the Turtles fall into the sewer, where they encounter Splinter and come in contact with the mutating ooze. As seen below, there is a pretty clear reference to the Daredevil origin, where a young man is hit in the face by a can of ooze, specifically “near his eyes”.

 

In another world, Matt Murdock returns home safely with his new pet turtles and is lost to history.

Edited by shadroch
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On 1/8/2007 at 8:48 AM, SuperBird said:

I'm of the 'underappreciated' camp. I read it in the late 80's, and thought it was fantastic. It's one of those books I go back to read again and again.

Back then, I thought Ronin really sucked.  Must everyone I know was excited to read it, and it was massively hyped, because Miller was coming off a great DD run.  But, what we got was a very confusing story with an art style that did not seem an improvement.  It was a massive disappointment.   

In fact, when it was announced that Miller would be doing DK, there was not a small amount of trepidation.  The memory of Ronin lingered, and many folks were ready to give DK a pass.  I think DK really benefited from the low expectations that Ronin set. 

 

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On 5/5/2017 at 6:11 AM, JTLarsen said:

You do know he's considered an innovator in terms of comic book layouts, right? Starting with Daredevil. And into, uh, Ronin.

Miller is more of a perfecter than an innovator.  His DD layouts were straight out of the Krigstein work book (probably also owed some to LW&C).  His Ronin style owed a lot to Moebius as well.

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48 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Miller is more of a perfecter than an innovator.  His DD layouts were straight out of the Krigstein work book (probably also owed some to LW&C).  His Ronin style owed a lot to Moebius as well.

Everyone stands on the shoulders of giants.

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1 hour ago, JTLarsen said:

Everyone stands on the shoulders of giants.

Absolutely true.  Even those become giants, like Miller.  In my opinion, the following sequences from DD 164 are in my top 5 of comic panel sequences of all time:

DD164-700x519.jpgimg_3837.jpg

But, my NUMBER 1 panel sequences are from the story that clearly inspired Miller and of which the above is a homage:

bernardkrigstein-masterrace-page-008.jpg

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On ‎16‎-‎09‎-‎2017 at 12:24 AM, sfcityduck said:

Absolutely true.  Even those become giants, like Miller.  In my opinion, the following sequences from DD 164 are in my top 5 of comic panel sequences of all time:

DD164-700x519.jpgimg_3837.jpg

But, my NUMBER 1 panel sequences are from the story that clearly inspired Miller and of which the above is a homage:

bernardkrigstein-masterrace-page-008.jpg

Awesome, - whos this guy Kriegstein?

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I know I'm not the first to say this, but when Miller is doing Superman, he's actually doing Kurtzman and Wood's Superduperman. I think that becomes even more evident with Frank's more recent, DK2 and beyond style.

Personally, I loved Ronin. I also enjoy Frank's current style. It's nuts. So kinetic, full of energy. I don't like it as well as I like his earlier work, but I still dig that he is doing something that inspires him to go nuts.

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37 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

Awesome, - whos this guy Kriegstein?

doh!  I'm going back to the GA boards now.  LoL!

 

More seriously, he was a highly influential artist for EC, Atlas, and DC in the late 1940s and 1950s who is known for his innovative panel arrangements and time breakdowns, especially as used in the story "Master Race," from Impact 1, from which the page above is taken.  Art Spiegelman famously argued in a thesis back in 1969 that Master Race was the greatest comic story ever drawn.  Krigstein was a huge influence on Steranko and Miller, among others.  Fantagraphics has some great books on Krigstein that I encourage you to seek out.

Edited by sfcityduck
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1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

doh!  I'm going back to the GA boards now.  LoL!

 

More seriously, he was a highly influential artist for EC, Atlas, and DC in the late 1940s and 1950s who is known for his innovative panel arrangements and time breakdowns, especially as used in the story "Master Race," from Impact 1, from which the page above is taken.  Art Spiegelman famously argued in a thesis back in 1969 that Master Race was the greatest comic story ever drawn.  Krigstein was a huge influence on Steranko and Miller, among others.  Fantagraphics has some great books on Krigstein that I encourage you to seek out.

Thanks for putting me out My misery.

Kriegstein looks like pure awesomeness.

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44 minutes ago, Mr bla bla said:

Any archive edtions to be recommended?

Get "Messages in a Bottle" in paperback if you are ok with a soft cover.  It can be found for as little at $15 new from Amazon sellers.

For a hardcover, get "B. Krigstein Comics" - which will set you back considerably more for a new copy (as its out of print), but used copies are fairly affordable.

"B. Krigstein v. 1" is a great bio.

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16 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Get "Messages in a Bottle" in paperback if you are ok with a soft cover.  It can be found for as little at $15 new from Amazon sellers.

For a hardcover, get "B. Krigstein Comics" - which will set you back considerably more for a new copy (as its out of print), but used copies are fairly affordable.

"B. Krigstein v. 1" is a great bio.

Thnx ...

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     Those Superman covers are just horrendous....                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Back in the early 80s, I thought he was one of the greatest comic writers in its' history, but his art was strictly from hunger.  His layout and page design are innovative and creative, but the artwork itself still does absolutely zero for me...

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37 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

without RONIN there would have been no DARK KNIGHT RETURNS series. RONIN changed the comics/graphic novel landscape in the 80s and is a pivotal work. 

Because Ronin sucked so bad, there almost was no Dark Knight Returns.  First issue of Ronin much more plentiful than DK 1 because DK 1 was an iffy proposition after Ronin.  Our expectations were high for Ronin because of DD, and really low for DK because of Ronin.  

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