Arrival dates on Pep 22, Pep 23, and Jackpot 4 confirm my thoughts all along...
2 2

103 posts in this topic

Any updates on this discussion? Will CGC and Overstreet change their notes regarding Pep 23 and Jackpot 4?

 

Don't understand why Overstreet would have to update any of their notes on these 2 particular books as everything appears to be correct. ???

 

The issue seems to be CGC's interpretation of Overstreet which is clearly incorrect if they are denoting Jackpot 4 as the second appearance of Archie on their labels.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's funny. They're not explicitly noting Jackpot 4 as the 2nd appearance, but as far as I know, every copy they've graded says "Same month as Pep 22", which is of course implicitly incorrect since it's implying that it came out the same month, which it didn't. So while it's not an explicitly incorrect statement, it's definitely deceptive and should have no bearing as it signifies nothing.

 

And although they've never labeled any book as the "2nd appearance", at some point in the last 2 or 3 years, someone at CGC saw fit to change the notes on Pep 23 to "3rd appearance of Archie". Now, aside from being incorrect, what bothers me is that someone recently made this change without consulting Overstreet, anyone on here, or doing any kind of research. But now that it has been brought to their attention they suddenly have to run it by Overstreet before they make a change.

 

:mad:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I just got word that they are leaning towards making the changes, but it won't make a notation in the next Price Guide as it's too late.

 

I pretty much figured that, but like lou pointed out, technically Overstreet doesn't need to change anything, although a distinctive designation would be appreciated in the future.

 

Now just to wait and see if CGC has made a final determination.

 

Also, what do people think the notes should say exactly? Aside from the obvious "2nd appearance of Archie, Betty, and Jughead" and "Statue of Liberty Cover", I feel there should be a nod to the fact that it's the 1st time they are depicted as bonafide teenagers. It should be significant given the success of the franchise was because teens resonated with the gang being depicted as teenagers, not little kids. Granted, I'm sure it was probably intentional to debut them as younger in the first issue as a sort of lead-up/intro, but I dunno. Either way, the difference in Betty is unmistakable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work. I would with all you stated in the notes. Cgc has noted facts of much lesser importance in many books, so I think your suggestion is informative and important to the collector.

 

2nd appearance Archie, Betsy and Jughead; 1st appearance as teenagers.

Statue of Liberty cover.

 

In which auction will you place your books? Will you resubmit your pep 23 to have the notes changed on Pep 23? Mine states only "Statue of Liberty Cover"

 

David

Edited by TheSurgeon
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, if mine only said "Statue of Liberty Cover" I probably wouldn't have even thought anything of it(and maybe that's why no one has since they only recently labeled 23 incorrectly, and obviously none of the J4 owners were gonna complain!), but the fact that my copy is already consigned and is mislabeled is very frustrating. When you give a company thousands of dollars to grade your books you just expect them to come back labeled properly, particularly when it comes to major titles worth thousands.

 

My books will be in the August event auction at Comicconnect. It's a fairly Archie-centric auction with my Peps, a full run of Archie's, another Pep 22(8.0 EP resto), Archie 1 (7.0 MP resto), Archie 1 NG, and a bunch of other early Peps and Archie's.

 

I'll resubmit my 23 as soon as I get official word from CGC. Hopefully sometime soon, not sure what more needs to be determined.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the update from CGC...

"We are going with:

 

Pep 23-

 

On the stands before Jackpot #4

2nd appearance of Archie.

Statue of Liberty cover.

 

Jackpot 4-

First appearance Mrs Grundy.

First Archie cover appearance.

Archie begins."

 

Also, I received word from Bob Overstreet that there will be a note in the new guide stating that "Pep 23 was on stands 1 month before Jackpot 4".

 

Good work to everyone who contributed to preserving the historicity of these important books.

Edited by MagicMasonry
Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, I received word from Bob Overstreet that there will be a note in the new guide stating that "Pep 23 was on stands 1 month before Jackpot 4".

 

Good work to everyone who contributed to preserving the historicity of these important books.

 

Are they referring to the new guide that will be coming out if a few weeks from now or the one slated for next year in 2015?

 

I would find it extremely surprising that it would be in this year's edition unless this change was already slated before the enquiry was even sent into OS last month. After all, are they really going to pull the book off the presses and re-insert this revision just for this one change?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. Great work on this MagicMasonry. You should get some kind of no-prize award for your keen detective work and persistence in proving a definitive answer to the question. Will you get your pep 23 placed in a new holder?

Edited by TheSurgeon
Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow. Great work on this MagicMasonry. You should get some kind of no-prize award for your keen detective work and persistence in proving a definitive answer to the question. Will you get your pep 23 placed in a new holder?

 

Yes, good idea if CGC is willing to do it for you on their dime! :wishluck:

 

Not sure if it is worth it if you have to pay for the new holder yourself. Especially since this should already be a known fact by most of the people bidding on this book. I remember unsuccessfully bidding on Pep 23 on 2 or 3 previous occasions years ago and in every case, it was clearly identified in the auction listings as being the 2nd appearance of Archie.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow. Great work on this MagicMasonry. You should get some kind of no-prize award for your keen detective work and persistence in proving a definitive answer to the question. Will you get your pep 23 placed in a new holder?

 

Yes, good idea if CGC is willing to do it for you on their dime! :wishluck:

 

Not sure if it is worth it if you have to pay for the new holder yourself. Especially since this should already be a known fact by most of the people bidding on this book. I remember unsuccessfully bidding on Pep 23 on 2 or 3 previous occasions years ago and in every case, it was clearly identified in the auction listings as being the 2nd appearance of Archie.

 

And you should get some kind of no-prize award for your keen unsuccessful bidding efforts.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Until now, the auction houses could advertise Jackpot 4 as "2nd Archie appearance, same month as pep 22" and advertise pep 23 as "2nd Archie appearance" also. No more double dipping into 2nd appearance of Archie pool.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if it will be in the 2014 guide or 2015. From the sound of it, it might be the 2014. We'll see soon enough.

 

I'm definitely getting my label updated as the current label is an eyesore in my opinion. I don't care about the 100 bucks it'll cost to ship it back and forth. I think it's cool that it will be the 1st copy officially recognized as the 2nd appearance at auction.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if it will be in the 2014 guide or 2015. From the sound of it, it might be the 2014. We'll see soon enough.

 

I'm definitely getting my label updated as the current label is an eyesore in my opinion. I don't care about the 100 bucks it'll cost to ship it back and forth. I think it's cool that it will be the 1st copy officially recognized as the 2nd appearance at auction.

 

You should see if CGC would add that in the notes: First copy of Pep 23 to be officially recognized as 2nd appearance of Archie.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Surgeon :)

 

Btw, if you look in the new OSPG next to Pep 23 they specified "on sale 11/41". A little more detail like "2nd appearance of Archie" would have been nice, but I guess it's a start. Since Jackpot 4 says "on sale 12/41" people can at least figure it out now. But it still bugs the heck out of me that they have Archie 1, 2, and 3 listed as "scarce", but not Pep 22 or 23 which are, you know, only about 3 TIMES more scarce. (shrug)

Edited by MagicMasonry
Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks Surgeon :)

 

Btw, if you look in the new OSPG next to Pep 23 they specified "on sale 11/41". A little more detail like "2nd appearance of Archie" would have been nice, but I guess it's a start. Since Jackpot 4 says "on sale 12/41" people can at least figure it out now. But it still bugs the heck out of me that they have Archie 1, 2, and 3 listed as "scarce", but not Pep 22 or 23 which are, you know, only about 3 TIMES more scarce. (shrug)

 

Yes, everything is exactly the same as the previous guides except for the added notation on Pep 23 as follows: "(1/42; on sale 11/41)"

 

The biggest opportunity for improvement here though is with respect to the valuation itself. For example, this year's guide details 4 separate reported sales of a Jackpot 4: 1) CGC 2.0 copy for $6,265; 2) CGC 2.0 copy for 8,350; 3) CGC 3.0 copy for $6,100; and 4) CGC 3.5 copy for $18,000. Not exactly exactly of the chronological order of these 4 sales, but certainly looks like a good deal for the 3.0 buyer in comparison to the other three reported sales.

 

Yet this year's guide for Jackpot 4 places a value of only $1,500 for a 2.0 copy and $3,000 for a 4.0 copy; with top of guide coming in at a "whopping" $19K. Typical nice & slow increases in valuation for OS, so it looks like there are still years of increases left in the guide for this particular book.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
2 2