skybolt

On 6/24/2022 at 10:21 AM, captainzombie said:

It is possible that they could be trying this as a test to slowdown some of the crappy amount of submissions that are coming through. They probably feel there are many books coming through that are worthless bogging things down. While they should not be telling someone what is worthwhile and what is worthless, we know at the end of the day people were submitting all kinds of cheap books to churn a profit. This has added to the backup.

 

This is a good point. For example, I work for a civil engineering firm that typically goes after large design fee expressway reconstruction type projects. At some point they figured out that winning local type work with limited design budgets was not worth it, especially when you consider having to hire additional staff and dealing with clients that want a Rolls Royce for Hyundai type money, it just made sense to consolidate and concentrate on the money making projects.

CGC is likely facing a similar situation. For them it may be a good decision to eliminate 25% of slow modern submissions that bog down the system and cause inconsistencies in long TAT's, QC, grading, pressing, etc., which leads to customer dissatisfaction. The last thing they want is for the large volume submitters to seek business elsewhere due to these issues.

On 6/24/2022 at 9:10 AM, captainzombie said:

 

It will chase some people away just as skybolt and ninja mentions. You have those that are sending every single brand new book in thinking they will churn a profit which was one of the biggest issues of the last 2 years. It may not eliminate that crowd just yet, but give them 2-3 submissions where they barely make any money to no money and then their mind set will change on their strategy.

There is a possibility that it also slows down Fast Track Modern submission too. Right now it costs a total of $39 and with a price hike, we could be at $45 or even $48 hypothetically. Now people are going to really rethink is this book worth $45-50 in CGC costs and not including their shipping both ways.

Once you throw in the inconsistent grading and falling prices on books due to the potential recession + inflation on general necessities, this will eliminate some people from continuing to submit books. I know that some of you guys strictly send to CGC to sell. I am a mix between the two, I send enough books in where I cover my CGC costs with half of the books that I sell and the other half are for my PC. Then sometimes I end up getting PC books grade so much lower that I have to put them up for sale and then hunt down a better graded version of the book or a high grade of the book to play the game all over again.

Honestly this is bad as an overall business practice to keep raising prices every several months.

 

I've been watching some CGC unboxing videos on Youtube, and this one person had 25/25 random modern books come back as 9.8 after prescreening. He was putting all the books up for auction later that day and said he's basically providing a community service since he'll break even on these books. I'm assuming he's doing this exercise for his Youtube channel, which barely had any views. I'm sure that after a couple more of these submissions he'll tire of the process and stop submitting books, especially if the price hike causes him to lose money.

On 6/24/2022 at 8:17 AM, Stefan_W said:

I seriously doubt anyone will be scared away by paying over $30 per book. What will slow submission rates down is big dips in the market where people are no longer making money hand over fist on everything they send in. It looks like that type of market correction is already happening so we will see if TATs start to come down over the next few months. 

In the past I've submitted a lot of books that sell in the $50 to $75 range in 9.8. My thought process was that I'll keep the books in my collection for a bid and later sell for a small profit. If the cost to grade these type of books goes up to $30, I can imagine a lot of people staying away from submitting these type of books. Combine this with the slower market and inconsistent grading, I can certainly see a 50% drop in slow modern submissions (at least in the short term).

That being said, once the comic books are hot again in a few years, I can see the market adjusting to the new grading fees. For example, although 18-20 years ago it only cost me $15 to grade a book, I could barely sell them for $25-$30 back in the day. Nowadays I can easily get double these prices for these type of non key books.

On 6/23/2022 at 7:35 PM, captainzombie said:

So your grades are all over the place and quite the range there. After this last submission, I have learned my lesson sending in multiple copies on one book. I literally combed over 6 copies of this ASM book that I sent in and only 3 of them made the cut from my review, yet one of the books still got a lower grade.

How long were these books at CGC? I wonder if reversion could have sat in if these were there for a few months.

If you look at my submission and the grades that I posted earlier today. It is so weird, some books that got a 9.4, should of been 9.6 and even 1 of them 9.8. I will crack that book when it comes because something is off for it to get graded this badly.

Then I got some 9.8's that I thought were going to be 9.6. Just very odd all around.

I know that Web of Spider-man #1 is a tough book to get a 9.8 for sure.

 

I really hope that professional pressers are not relying on CGC grading the books within a short period of time so that the books don't revert back to original form. Like I've mentioned before, I have books that were quick pressed by CCS over 5 years ago and still don't show any signs of reversion. I'll wait until I get the books back before making a judgment. They could just be undergraded like other submissions.

On 6/23/2022 at 3:01 PM, captainzombie said:

What grades did the rest of the books come back as? Did you quickly go from G/E/I to pretty much Shipping like in the past?

It was 1 - 9.8, 10 - 9.6's, 3 - 9.4's, 2 - 9.2's, 2 - 9.0's, 1 - 8.0 and 1 - 7.5. I didn't expect the 8.0 and 7.5 to come back as 9.8's, but expected higher grades. I will say that I will never submit multiple copies of 1 book in one submission, especially if they're from the 80's. I had 9 newsstand copies of Web of Spider-Man #4 and 6 of #5 and none of them came back as 9.8. At least if you spread them out, the hope is that 2/3 of them would get graded by an experienced grader. Like I mentioned above, I still need them in hand to check the pressing job. Most of these books were not circulated and only had minor corner bends, which could easily be pressed out. 

It's interesting that the 1 book I really wanted back as a 9.8 (Web of Spider-Man #1 Newsstand Edition) did come back a 9.8.

Also, I'm not sure if it's the luck of the draw, but that last 10 or so submissions that were pressed by CCS, were ultimately graded by someone whom I agreed with the grades they were assigning. On the other hand, the 4 that were pressed by a 3rd party, I've felt the grading was extremely harsh and likely went to a newbie grader.

Ugh, looks like I ran into another newbie grader. After pressing by a 3rd party, only 1 of 20 books came back as a 9.8. I'll need to check the press job when I get the books back, but most of the books were 9.8 candidates even without pressing.

On 6/23/2022 at 8:36 AM, thingsofstuff said:

10 book Modern Slow with pressing

Delivered 5/3/21

Received 6/21/21

CCS Billing 1/12/22

Scheduled for Grading 6/20/22

CGC Billing 6/20/22 (for this and all pending CGC orders so that was fun)

Grading/Encapsulation/Imaging 6/21/22

Quality Control/Finalized 6/22/22

Shipped 6/23/22

Were you happy with the grades? 

My 4/6/2022 received slow modern submission just went into G/E/I.

Just got back my last CCS submission of 19 books. I had previously noted I got 13 - 9.8's, 5 - 9.6's and 1 - 9.4. After careful inspection, I agreed with every single grade. CGC, please give me the same grader next time. 

On 6/17/2022 at 12:19 PM, Iconic1s said:

That’s pretty inconsistent… I’ve got recent 9.6’s, 9.4’s, and even an 8.5 with no grader notes!  Meanwhile they give a 9.8 to a book with ‘fingerprints’ literally in the grader notes??  What the heck are they doing!!!

So, NOTHING on this book was worth mentioning in Grader Notes before slamming an 8.5 on it!!  Meanwhile they give a book with fingerprints a 9.8!!

 

Honestly, at this point it's like playing Russian Roulette. Your submissions basically have a 33% chance of being graded by a newbie who gives out 8.5's and 9.0's like candy for production type defects.

I contacted CGC about my 4/11/2021 CCS received submission again, and they admitted it was overdue. They said they'll their best to locate it and get it back to me as soon as possible. This is my last 2021 submission.

On 6/15/2022 at 7:50 PM, captainzombie said:

 

 

Sky, I would contact eBay to get those neutral/negative feedbacks removed. Not sure what size your account is, since these are professionally graded and encapsulated what the book looks like inside the case should not matter and should be based on the grade. If you say the book is a 9.8 in your listing, its a 9.8.

I do get tired of the clowns on ebay, we've been selling on there for 19 years. We have a pretty sizable account since we sell used auto parts and people man are a real piece of work. I could write a few books on my experience with some of the customers and even worse their customer service over there.

The Ebay buyers that annoy me the most are the ones that chide me for listing a 9.8 graded copy for $100, since they can get a raw high grade copy from their LCS for $2. I just ignore their response.

On 6/15/2022 at 4:31 PM, Petroman said:

That's ridiculous.  The grade speaks for itself otherwise why the heck are we all wasting so much time and money grading books?  You didn't come up with the grade, CGC did.  If their standards have changed its certainly not your fault. 

Honestly, I'd rather they just ask for a refund instead of giving a neutral or negative feedback.

On 6/15/2022 at 1:32 PM, captainzombie said:

Oh WOW! That is quite the amount of books and to not even get 1 9.9 is a disservice. I'd love to see a 9.9 or 10 up close to see what warranted it the "PERFECT" book.

One issue I've noticed with selling on EBay these days, is that buyers are starting to buy into the harsher CGC grading. I've gotten a couple of neutral feedbacks in the past few months where the buyer thought a 9.8 copy should not have a non-color breaking tick mark along the spine or a slightly rounded corner. 

On 6/15/2022 at 12:24 PM, captainzombie said:

I can understand where you are coming from since you are primarily selling books. I am collecting and also selling to help fund the good old hobby. I agree with you that a 9.6 vs 9.8 at times is very minimal which is crazy as to why we don't see more 9.9 and 10.0's as there are books out there that could fall in that range, yet they get a 9.8. You then have 9.8 books getting a 9.6 and so forth.

I've submitted a couple of thousand books over the past 20 years and still no 9.9's.

On 6/15/2022 at 10:28 AM, captainzombie said:

 

I have been doing the same thing. If books come back at a lower grade, I just end up listing it on ebay. Then I hope that I can come across a better copy to submit to CGC or just buy the book already graded at the grade that I want.

I had this issue happen to me with Wolverine #66 v3 which is the first Old Man Logan. I kept buying $25 raw copies that were in high grade and even with a small issue, I kept getting grades in the 9.0-9.4 range. I gave up after buying and submitting so many, that I bought a 9.8 at a reasonable price. Then I ended up with another raw copy that was so good that I submitted it and that darn thing came back with a 9.6, which I would have been okay with.

My thumb of rule on graded books. If books are from the 90's to current year, I would want 9.6 and 9.8 grades. I think a 9.6 is decent and not a bad grade. Anything that is 80's and older, I am fine with 9.6 and lower since the older the books get the harder it is to get ones in really good shape. My biggest issue is how inconsistent the grading is at CGC that is causing us to get some of these lower grades. They just received another submission of mine this morning, so I will be interested to see how this batch fairs.

I agree with all your points.

The interesting thing is that since I'm mostly buying and selling these days, my focus has been on getting 9.8 grades for most post 1980 submissions. However, when I was collecting 10-15 years ago, I would mostly go after 9.6 copies. In my head I couldn't rationalize paying 3 times as much to obtain a better copy, which required special lighting or a magnifying glass to see the defect. 

One thing I do hope CGC fixes moving forward is consistent grading for production type defects. For example, I just received a 9.8 grade for an X-Men #30 (1994) where the staples are well pushed into the spine. However, in a previous submission, a Superman: The Man of Steel #19 was downgraded to a 9.0 for a similar issue.

On 6/15/2022 at 9:07 AM, Gaard said:

Just curious...

What do you guys do with something like that? Crack it and throw it in a drek box, sell it at auction, something else?

Since this was a run of the mill low cost book, I would just list it on Ebay as a 6.0 and take the hit. Someone will get a nice looking 6.0 copy.

On 6/13/2022 at 3:41 PM, skybolt said:

Here are the results for the last of my four 6/25/2021 slow modern CCS submissions that went into grading last week (a fifth one is still at CCS).

13 - 9.8's, 5 - 9.6's and 1 - 9.4. All in all 55 of the 94 books graded came back as 9.8. Not bad considering how badly I've done in recent submissions.

I just received 4 of my submissions, which included the fifth one mentioned above. The grades for the last batch were lower than expected:

8 - 9.8's, 13 - 9.6's, 2 - 9.4's, 1 - 9.2 and 1 - 6.0. This time around I did receive grader notes (moderate bends to cover) for the 6.0 book, which didn't  make any sense. First of all, these books were pressed by CCS and secondly, the book looks like a 9.8 to me sitting in the case. In any case, since this was a low dollar issue I won't sweat it too much.

Overall, I thought CCS did a great job pressing the books. There were a few copies where the non color breaking spine ticks weren't removed via quick press, but this was my fault. Over the past year I've learned that quick press will not work for thicker, hard stock type covers. This was no surprise.

For two submissions where on average 2/3 of the books came back as 9.8's, the grading was strict, but very fair. On the other hand, for the other 2 submissions where only 1/3 of the books came back as 9.8's, I would say each submission had 4 books graded as 9.4 or 9.6, which look like 9.8's to me. Overall, I will be honest and say that I did receive a handful of 9.8's, which could've easily been graded as 9.6's.

So my overall conclusion is that I was satisfied with how the books were pressed, and after careful inspection of each book, I didn't have too many head scratchers. 

Another couple of things I've learned from this whole experience is to a.) go back to recording the raw and potential pressed grades of the books before submitting (to avoid surprises after 1 year), and b.) to keep my grading consistent and not assume that CGC will be grading tightly or loosely at any given time. 

On 6/9/2022 at 11:18 AM, skybolt said:

My 3rd CCS pressed submission was just shipped. 15 - 9.8's, 6 - 9.6's, 3 - 9.4's and 1 - 9.0. No grader notes. 

I'll check these books when they come back, but am relatively happy with the grades.

Here are the results for the last of my four 6/25/2021 slow modern CCS submissions that went into grading last week (a fifth one is still at CCS).

13 - 9.8's, 5 - 9.6's and 1 - 9.4. All in all 55 of the 94 books graded came back as 9.8. Not bad considering how badly I've done in recent submissions.

On 6/9/2022 at 3:42 PM, skybolt said:

This is interesting. These books just went from Shipped to G/E/I. Has this happened to anyone before?

So this afternoon I received 2 separate FedEx shipping notices.  I'm pretty sure one was for this submission and the other for another CCS submission. I get the feeling that instead of marking the second submission as shipped, they went back and changed this one to G/E/I instead. Need to e-mail CGC to make sure these books show up on the census. 

On 6/9/2022 at 11:18 AM, skybolt said:

My 3rd CCS pressed submission was just shipped. 15 - 9.8's, 6 - 9.6's, 3 - 9.4's and 1 - 9.0. No grader notes. 

I'll check these books when they come back, but am relatively happy with the grades.

This is interesting. These books just went from Shipped to G/E/I. Has this happened to anyone before?

On 6/8/2022 at 5:39 PM, skybolt said:

My second CCS submission was just shipped with disappointing results. 9 - 9.8's, 9 - 9.6's, 4 - 9.4's' 2 - 9.2's, 1 - 9.0 and 1 - 6.0. No grader notes, including on the 6.0 copy. I will reserve judgment until I have the books in hand.  Lately I've been having problems getting 9.8's on 80's Spectacular Spider-Man issues, since the copies I submitted all had miswraps.

My 3rd CCS pressed submission was just shipped. 15 - 9.8's, 6 - 9.6's, 3 - 9.4's and 1 - 9.0. No grader notes. 

I'll check these books when they come back, but am relatively happy with the grades.

On 6/9/2022 at 10:26 AM, ak47po said:

CGC needs to update their grading scale, or show this to the new graders.

 

I think the problem is that these new graders are taking these grading standards too literally. For example, in the past, CGC has allowed miswraps, miscuts, slight upper corner spine tears for hard stock type covers, staples pushed into the spine, overhangs resulting in slightly rounded corners, books that don't have perfectly flat spines, indentation from die-cut covers, etc. for 9.8 graded copies. The above grading scale gives these new graders freedom to hammer any manufacturing defect if they feel it impacts the overall look of the book. I can see a new grader seeing a quarter inch miswrap as being a moderate manufacturing defect, hence keeping it from achieving anything higher than a 9.0 grade.

On 6/9/2022 at 8:45 AM, ak47po said:

CGC New grader training instructions.

Received: 6/1/22

Shipped: 6/9/22

Don't waste your money on F/T.

I know everybody thinks they have a 9.8's but really.

I'm sorry to hear this. It's like CGC is allowing each grader to use their own standards to grade books. If someone doesn't like slight miswraps or production type errors, then they're perfectly within their rights to give you whatever grade they want. I see that these new graders have jumped over to fast track moderns now. With Economy lagging these days. it's a safe assumption that they'll be moved to this tier next.