New School Fool

Nicely put, but I'm not claiming anything you mentioned is disinformation. I've been privvy to around seven sales of monoprints on the secondary market, about 3 of these have undersold, and when you see these monoprints, it's easy to see why. They looked awful. To say that monoprints don't hold their value is pure misinformation. In reality it's a lot more nuanced than that. To also further say that an artist will print another monoprint whenever they're low on funds without any proof that this has taken place is also pure misinformation. I have no doubt of what monoprints are and I'm actually not comparing them to Original Art, I would just like straight up facts and not fears to be reiterated to someone new to the hobby. Finally, I will say this. I will always hold Original Art in higher regard to monoprints. Yet, I read all the fear mongering on this forum but still decided to take the 'risk' on buying a monoprint because the artwork quite frankly blew me away. I was very pleased with what I received. The paper and ink quality was of a very high standard and yes, you can feel the ink raised on the paper. A lot of the opinions on monoprints in this forum seem to be based on heresay rather than actual tangible experience.

Dude...Greg Woronchak does really great work. How long did it take him to create all those recreations, and what are the dimensions?

I apologize if you feel I had offended you in anyway, snide commentary really isn't my bag, just stating my opinion. I guess we should agree to disagree...? Thankfully I haven't taken this personally but through our discourse I did wonder what type of collector you actually are. If you have a link to your CAF gallery, it would be great to look through it if you would be so kind as to post the link up. This New School Fool could learn a thing or two ;) - Peace!

I appreciated your honesty...Yet you probably think I'm obnoxious because I don't agree with you. As per my earlier post, I was simply highlighting the fact that the views expressed in this forum are a facet of the hobby as a whole and not the mainstream, despite what you think. Yes, the newbie deserves assistance, but telling them not to buy monoprints because of x and y isn't really assisting them, it's imposing your preference and preconceived notions onto them. I'm simply telling them to buy what they love and be happy. What don't you like about that? It's clear the majority of this forum are not into Artist Proofs and Monoprints, which is cool but they still sell! Pepe Larraz, Russell Dautermann and Jorge Jiminez have pieces that disappear minutes after the drop....No one here is buying them so who is? Do you still think your advice is the voice of the mainstream?

Read through that thread again. I think you'll find that Twanj was pointing out two examples of Monoprints that sold and that was it. I accidentally attributed those two sales to them both losing money which I later re-corrected to state that one actually made money in the sale. I know you're desperate for a good example so keep looking my friend ;) Don't know about you dude but I treat my hobby as a hobby and my investments as investments. Some people collect comic art to just collect comic art...and yes, obviously some pieces can rise in value over time. Did I not say in my earlier post here that going for monoprints as an investment is probably not the best option at the moment? Are you actually reading what I'm saying or just foaming at the mouth and shooting from the hip?

How can you 'go wrong' exactly? And why? Yes you're right. All the monoprints I have bought come signed and dated with a COA, and unique hologram. Recently artists are offering remarks with their monoprints. That does it for me but I have a feeling that won't work for you. There's hundreds of pen and ink pieces that have sold at a negative ROI...does that mean that all traditionally made pieces are a bad ROI? Recently I've seen two monoprints sold at auction that negate your 'ghost' example so I'm not sure what to make of this...that was told to you by a friend of a friend or whoever. Well, good thing I'm buying the art because I like it then and not to turn a profit ;) That's great, whatever floats your boat dude! You do you

Welcome to the hobby! I started a little earlier than you (2017) and also had similar questions when I started. While this forum is great to get advice on the hobby that you probably won't find elsewhere, I will caution you though that the demograph here represents just a fraction of the hobby in its entirety so the advice you get may not be indicative or the hobby as a whole....that's what I've found out anyway. I've found the age range also skews a little higher than ours here (40+ to ~70), art interests are reflect this age range. I'm not sure how many here are into modern art but the best advice I can give you is to just buy what you love. I'm seeing a lot of misinformation thrown at you regarding Artists Proofs in the comic art scene. (Digital Artists reprinting sold work, Monoprints not holding their value etc.) Straight up, this forum is not the place to ask about them as generally, no-one likes them here (for their own reasons) I would ask for evidence on each piece of "information" you get. If you are buying as an investment, they're probably not the best option to go for at the moment. But as this ever changing market evolves, no one knows what the future holds for Artist Proofs/Monoprints, especially as more and more artists move digital. I've bought a few monoprints from Jorge Jiminez and a few other artists and I'm very happy with them. I do have a lot more pencil and ink work though. Don't let anyone discourage you from buying art you like because 'they' think it's not up to 'their' standard. Buy what you like and you can't go wrong.

I'm not sure if any of you are aware of the Veve app? Veve is a digital collectables app which lets users purchase and display digital collectables on the blockchain. One of the things you can buy are digital comics which seems to be fueling sales of 'actual' comics amongst millennials. I was at a comic convention a few months ago that sold a majority of Bronze age comics. I came across an individual who seemed a little young to be there. When asked they explained that they had collected the digital comic on the Veve app and now wanted the physical copy. I had heard of this phenomenon before but wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Well now, Veve have started to sell Digital Original art (Artists Proofs) as NFTs. These are being offered as silent auctions and a few artists (Adam Kubert, Peach Momoko and Scotty Young amongst others) already have pieces sold. Now, I know a majority of you are not into NFTs but I feel it's worth being aware of them as they are an avenue of comic art sales and it seems a new market is emerging, one that could bleed into original art sales. There was an interesting conversation regarding NFTs a while ago in this forum and I think the possibility of being offered the NFT of owned original art was discussed. It seems that if you own an original art piece, another individual could very well own the NFT version. A Peach Momoko NFT recently sold, (Ghost Spider #2 cover) the original I narrowly missed out on buying (initially I refused the piece and then Peach's popularity skyrocketed. When I next inquired about it, it had sold!). I'm a little glad I didn't buy it now that a separate NFT has been sold to another individual. After the NFT sale, a few people in the Veve forum were inquiring on the original art. If anything, the sale of NFT art could lend itself to exposure of the original art market? For what it's worth, the original art was in the price range of $2500. The NFT art silent auction started at ~$1500. Not sure how much it sold for but the buyer has already relisted it for sale at ~2.5 Mil

Lol! That's not actually what I was doing/saying. You've totally misunderstood me dude, I'm definitely not here fighting my corner for flippers. Just to clarify, what I am bemoaning is the trend of modern artists work selling for the same amount as established great artists in the industry. The Titan pages for example, selling for an amount that should net you a McFarlane page. Fair enough it was a birth page, but still. (I will stop using this example though, as all the power to Felix and Ottley for their sale). ...And the other rep, clearly following Felix's example quoted a price for their new artist that was comparable to a good Dell'otto page.

Well @Nexus - I can't argue against your counter arguments, because you do have strong points that I agree with. Please don't take my previous post as a complaint but more of an observation. I do continue to have the utmost respect for you (though no-one is above criticism ;) ) I came to realize your pricing model was implemented to counteract the secondary market. To your credit, it's a smart and deserving move that puts the money with the artist. I do think collectors that don't immediately sell/flip get a raw deal though....Maybe this will encourage us all to become long term holders? I've seen high priced art that I cannot afford, yet I feel the price is justified. The artist is outstanding and the art is amazing. This is why I don't think I'm grumpy about being 'priced out'. Of course this hypothetical piece is going to command high prices, it makes sense. When I say 'ripped off' - to me there's disconnect as to why a piece is priced so high and I'm left scratching my chin. For the Titan pages, this may be down to the fact that I'm not the biggest Ottley fan, and to see a page by him priced comparability to others I feel are better artists leaves me bewildered. Same with the 120% marked up artist I mentioned in my previous post. But yes, 'Don't Like it Don't Buy it' is the number one rule to collect by. It's funny as I always recount the same to other collector friends with a smirk on my face. I would go further to say it's not reps or collectors that set prices but rather green collectors with deep pockets perhaps?

I thought I'd chime in on this, albeit very late as I have recently had an experience which echoes what @Xatari mentioned above. I also agree that @Nexus is somewhat responsible for the rise in prices. I was shocked at the drop prices of those Titan pages and they caused quite a stir in the channels I frequent. I was quite surprised that nothing was mentioned here until now. I actually have a friend who is a rep and we talked about Felix prices before I saw this post. They mentioned the same anecdotes: 'If you don't like it, don't buy it' and 'it's good for the artist' etc. And that's true. I asked why do I feel so bitter about it if that's so? They mentioned it's the sting of being priced out. That, I don't completely agree with. I think it's more the fact that I don't think the art is worth the asking price and buyers are probably getting ripped off. Now, don't get me wrong, I have great respect for Felix and what he's done for the hobby. My first piece of OA was through Felix. and I've managed to pick up a few through him. There was one transaction though that left me feeling that I bought into the hype and wasn't worth the price I paid (but hey-ho), and then, as some others have mentioned, things seemed to have escalated from there. Felix isn't the only one though. Earlier this year I paid for a piece by a repped artist that is relatively new to the industry. I doubt anyone here as any pieces by them. I paid, what I felt was, slightly more than the piece was worth. The artwork was too good to let go so I swallowed the cost. Less than a year later, I enquired about a piece by the same artist that is arguably not as good as the one I bought previously. prices for this artist have now more than doubled than what they were 10 months ago. I would understand if the piece was groundbreaking, but unfortunately it wasn't. The artist's work was also initially priced fairly high...I can't help feel that the rep is being manipulative. I've dealt with artists increasing their prices in the past but +120% in less than a year is just crazy.....and this is for a relatively new artist!

Race ran away!

I know this probably won't help, but to me I see this as just the nature of the hobby. You can't get everything you want in life. You live in Canada so that rules you out of obtaining art from certain artists. Well how do you think us European collectors contend with that? I actually consider you lucky! Think of it as a good reason to keep your money and find another artist to spend it on.

Oh wow, is this for real!? (or as Mike would say 'Are you kidding me!?!') Oh boy, Anthony has been extremely well behaved all things considered!

Care to elaborate on this comment? Because to me it seems you're saying "I don't have many female customers, therefore I can be as crude and as sexist as I want"

Does anyone know how to contact Charles Burns either for a commission or to purchase original art that isn't on the dealer sites? Big thanks in advance 😊

I've reached out to his rep David Yokai on Instagram and he's been very responsive: https://instagram.com/yokaidavid?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

There's a difference somewhat. Felix and Albert now give a preview of what will be available during the drop. At least you can decide whether it's worth your time to "attend". Even without the preview, during the drop you can spend 10 minutes glancing over the art to decide whether there's anything you want or not. What I dislike about the claim shows and why I stopped watching them is that there's no art preview, and I'm forced to sit through hours of bad jokes and theatrics just to see that the art isn't what I'd go for anyway. They're essentially a waste of time, and I'd often wish they'd get to the point. I know a lot of you have it on in the background while doing other things. For us Europeans, it eats into precious sleep time and I've come to realise that they're not worth staying up for.

What the origin of the "Thigh gap" joke anyway...? I can never understand why Bill says it. Is it something that's sought after in art by some collectors?

I currently in the process of buying two pages from them and have a payment plan set up. I'm corresponding with someone called 'Miles' and had a whole set of questions regarding the art before the 1st payment was made. Communication was faultless and Miles answered every email in a timely manner. Seeing how things are in another month or two when the pieces are paid is another thing but for now - all good.

I think it's obvious now that a high hammer price and artistic merit do not go hand in hand.

That sounds like really good advice. The last year or so I have definitely been a little too focused on chasing pieces. There's a dark side to this hobby and I'm pretty sure it can financially ruin you if you don't exercise restraint. At some point, I too will need to take a couple of years off, just to refocus myself if anything else.

Thanks, the seller obviously lost money in both of these examples. I'm personally not impressed with either piece, particularly the second but the cover should have gone for more. Ironically, Dauterman's monoprints generally sell quite well. I'm not a fan myself but a lot of pieces on his site are sold out. Not to make an excuse but I think in these examples, the artwork is kinda sucky! Edit: after looking through Dauterman's site, it seems the second example initially sold for $175 so the seller actually made money in that example - unbelievable!!

@RBerman - you raise some very good points. Thank you. All my monoprints have come with a signed COA and numbered 1/1. I have seen now a few reps offering remarks of your choice with monoprint - Black Diamond Art for example. Well, finally we have some conclusive market data of a monoprint sale on the secondary market. Art that isn't plain awful as in previous examples. A Jorge Jiménez monoprint sold at Heritage today. Jorge is the current artist on DC's Batman book. Batman is currently DC's top selling comic and Jorge is definitely one of DC's most talented artists. For this and various other reasons I liken him to Todd McFarlane of today. I personally had a similar feeling of awe after seeing Jorge's art as I did when I saw Todd's for the first time. It was Jorge's art that eventually convinced me to buy a monoprint, I just couldn't refuse. This result is interesting because a lot of Jorge's art is still available to purchase, so it was easy to compare if this went for enough money or not. I found a similar page on the reps site from an issue close to this one (a better page imho): http://www.comiconart.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=31846 There's probably a few other factors involved, but I think it's safe to say (at least in this example) that as long as the art on your monoprint doesn't absolutely suck, then it should at least retain it's value.

You raise a good point. But what about future earning potential for pieces contained within Artists Editions? I personally wouldn't bid on any pieces contained in those books knowing I can enjoy the art at a fraction of the price. As for the future market...in some ways it doesn't matter (for me). I'm not naïve enough to have bought my monoprints thinking they will accrue value over the years. They are killer pieces of art and I'm very happy with my purchases, even more so because they are generally cheaper than OA. That feeling won't change if they're ever rendered worthless. If they do become valuable, then hey! That's a bonus! The market is also a funny one, as in the contemporary art world it's not uncommon for an artist to release print runs of 10, 20, 50 or even 500...and then even artist's proofs on top of those. The price of the original run is never affected. Often prices shoot up overnight. I really do think monoprints are a cross hobby phenomenon and shouldn't be regarded in the same way as Original Art is.