FF Price Surge....what will the Guide say?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I just read this thread from the beginning....and finally reached the most recent post.

 

 

I have to say....this is one of the few times that I'm glad that I did.

 

Great thread guys.

 

[Aman619]

Im skeptical too. It COULD be great...but.

Lets face it. What worked for Spidey was the basic storyline of the loser kid whos life changes when he gets powers. It has immense human interest value that appealed across many demographics. AND - - the effects and acting etc didnt suck. You watched it and liked the characters and the story, even if you hadnt picked upa comic book in ten years.

 

Same with The Mask, and Men in Black. I doubt more than one in 20 of us here ever read those comics, but the movies wer interesting stories well-told.

 

So will the FF movie be any good? Or, could ANY FF movie appeal to a cross section of the total potential audience? Tough to say. The general public has now sat through a bunch of "kid gets powers and fights crime and seeks a lovelife" movies. So what will be "new and different" about FOUR kids/adults who get powers and fight a bad guy and bicker amongst themselves??

 

It needs a hook thats more compelling than "Hey lets get the good ol FF up on the screen next and gross a billion bucks worldwide!"

 

If it were up to YOU - - what would YOUR FF movie be about??

Not what you want it to be about, but what would appeal to the most ticket buyers?

[nearmint]

December 2004 was unrealistic given they haven't casted anybody yet, much less begun shooting.

 

Actually, some of the casting is complete, just not announced. A co-worker of my wife's was one of the top 5 contenders for the role of Johnny, but lost out. He doesn't know who got the part.

 

But...and I think this is great news...all five contenders read with Natalie Portman.

[Aces]

Doctor Doom!

What else...?

 

I'm not sure about a Silver-Age story arc though...

57-60 isn't possible since the Silver Surfer isn't part of the Marvel big-screen universe yet.

Someting like 39-40 without DD...?

Maybe they could even get a one (or two) scene cameo by Spider-man to help them fight Doc Doom.

First X-over in the movies!

That would be sweeeeeet!

[joe_collector]

Im skeptical too. It COULD be great...but.

Lets face it. What worked for Spidey was the basic storyline of the loser kid whos life changes when he gets powers. It has immense human interest value that appealed across many demographics. AND - - the effects and acting etc didnt suck.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again, but Spider-man is THE ONLY Marvel superhero that was virtually guaranteed to be a monster hit.

 

If you know the basic ingredients needed for a compelling movie, then it's easy to see how Stan hit all the notes with Spidey. The key element is that his origin story was also part of the very first story. It's wasn't a sidebar, it wasn't a throw-away, it was right there in AF 15. Contrast this with Daredevil....

 

Even AF 15 had a killer 3 Act structure, including a near-perfect depiction of the Hero's Journey. Pete starts out in the "normal world", is bitten by a spider, then is forced to re-examine his life after Uncle Ben is killed, face up to his responsibilities as Spidey, and finally become the hero his uncle always saw in him.

 

We're right there with Peter while he wrestles with this journey from geek to superhero, and that's the main reason it resonated so deeply with audiences.

 

That scene where Spidey sits on the building, looking down at a burglar driving away, music pounding, camera swirling, was the perfect definition of a "call to action". I'd bet 80% of the audience was thinking "Go!", and suddenly Spidey took that first step towards being a hero, swung off the building, and we were taken away.

 

Sure, the Green Goonhead ruined the last part of the movie for many, but that first half stuck to the books, and translated a perfect "movie comic book" virtually note for note. Stan did the work, but they didn't screw it up.

 

Now back to the FF movie: I'm sorry to say that I don't see any of the movie-like qualities that were present in Spidey, and it's obviously intended to be like The Hulk (no story, just FX).

[THE_BEYONDER]

I don't know.....I think the FF's origin would translate nicely into modern film.

 

 

[joe_collector]

I don't know.....I think the FF's origin would translate nicely into modern film.

 

Don't think in comic book terms, think movie.

 

Problems with FF story and design:

 

1) Multiple characters/team environment. One of the toughest to pull off, assuming you don't take the easy route and install Ben or Reed as "Tom Cruise" and the others as the background.

 

2) Not a very compelling idea.

 

A geeky nerd getting bit by a radioactive spider, gaining super powers, having to deal with the guilt of being a contributor to his uncle's death, and learning that "with great responsibility... blah, blah, blah", is.

 

Four people getting in a space ship and gaining superpowers isn't. There's no compelling story there, no backstory, no shadow, no character arc, no nothing. The only way to even hope to make this work is to concentrate on one character, one goal, and one baddy standing in the way, as in "Ben is the protag, and we need to cure him (or he'll go crazy and run amok), but that darned Dr Doom keeps getting in our way". Make Ben a ticking time bomb, insert an Alicia love angle and you're set.

 

3) Uninteresting title characters.

 

In the FF comic, the most interesting characters are the villains and allies, like Dr Doom, Surfer, Galactus, etc. Reed, Ben, Johnny and Sue are nothing more than guest stars in their own comic, and it's for good reason FF has one of the larger (and most ever-changing) supporting casts in comic-dom.

 

4) Seen-it-all-before Super Powers

 

We've seen strong men, fiery boys, and invisible gals just in the latest movies, not to mention multiple comic books, and when you're parodied by The Simpsons (Stretch Dude) and duplicated across many other characters, Reed isn't going to stand out either. Without the initial coolness of Wolvie's claws, Spidey walking up walls, or even Superman flying, it's tough to create a real buzz using retread powers.

[murph0]

I don't think Dr Doom would be good because people would just think he's Magneto with a diff costume

I'd think that Super-Krull guy could make a good villain in a movie.

 

Brian

[THE_BEYONDER]

I don't know.....I think the FF's origin would translate nicely into modern film.

 

Don't think in comic book terms, think movie.

 

Problems with FF story and design:

 

1) Multiple characters/team environment. One of the toughest to pull off, assuming you don't take the easy route and install Ben or Reed as "Tom Cruise" and the others as the background.

 

2) Not a very compelling idea.

 

A geeky nerd getting bit by a radioactive spider, gaining super powers, having to deal with the guilt of being a contributor to his uncle's death, and learning that "with great responsibility... blah, blah, blah", is.

 

Four people getting in a space ship and gaining superpowers isn't. There's no compelling story there, no backstory, no shadow, no character arc, no nothing. The only way to even hope to make this work is to concentrate on one character, one goal, and one baddy standing in the way, as in "Ben is the protag, and we need to cure him (or he'll go crazy and run amok), but that darned Dr Doom keeps getting in our way". Make Ben a ticking time bomb, insert an Alicia love angle and you're set.

 

3) Uninteresting title characters.

 

In the FF comic, the most interesting characters are the villains and allies, like Dr Doom, Surfer, Galactus, etc. Reed, Ben, Johnny and Sue are nothing more than guest stars in their own comic, and it's for good reason FF has one of the larger (and most ever-changing) supporting casts in comic-dom.

 

4) Seen-it-all-before Super Powers

 

We've seen strong men, fiery boys, and invisible gals just in the latest movies, not to mention multiple comic books, and when you're parodied by The Simpsons (Stretch Dude) and duplicated across many other characters, Reed isn't going to stand out either. Without the initial coolness of Wolvie's claws, Spidey walking up walls, or even Superman flying, it's tough to create a real buzz using retread powers.

 

I think the concept of "family" rather than "team"....will seperate the FF movie from the rest.

 

I have to disagree with your assessment of the FF's success in comics....

 

I was a huge FF fan, and although they have always had a top-notch rogue gallery.....there have been many great stories and sub-plots that had nothing at all to do with super-powered villians.

 

Remember that Byrne FF where the young kid doused himself in jet fuel....so he could become a HUMAN TORCH? That was a great story....and there wasn't a super villian in that book.

 

I agree that Alicia Masters should be involved......and I think the concept of unstable molecules could be explored as well.

 

An FF movie 'could' be great.....but I agree.....it will probably be absolutely terrible.

[joe_collector]

An FF movie 'could' be great.....but I agree.....it will probably be absolutely terrible.

 

That's really what I'm saying. Hollywood usually screws it up, and even with a "sure-fire 3 Act movie origin" like Spider-man, they still cooked the end and totally hosed the Goblin.

 

With not even a germ of a "compelling 2 hour movie idea" within FF (as far as I can see) this is a certain screw-up. This is likely going to be an example (along with Watchmen) as to why certain comic books don't really translate well to the big screen.

 

Now, a Wolverine movie would be right up there with Spidey for movie-appeal, especially since his character, powers and mysterious backstory literally carry the X-movies. Done right, a solo flick would explode on the screen.

 

An Elektra movie would be a much better starting point for a movie than Daredevil, as the character is much more compelling and mysterious, she has a backstory/shadow (death of father), and could really be fleshed out on-screen. Then again, they may have horked her too, by making the Kingpin the "killer of all" in the latest fiasco.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I'm sorry to say that I don't see any of the movie-like qualities that were present in Spidey, and it's obviously intended to be like The Hulk (no story, just FX)

 

There you are, foretelling the future again. You're sure to put Madame Cleo out of work soon.

 

As for how the FF may translate to the big screen, I think it might do well. Consider some of the unique qualities/traits of the title throughout the years:

 

- Its as much of a family as it is a team. I thought some of the best parts of the X-Men movies revolved around how the X-Men interacted amongst themselves. They didn't always see eye-to-eye, nor did everyone engage in a 24 hour hug fest. The inherent antagonism in the Wolverine/Cyclops/Jean Grey triangle made for instant character development. Wasn't this one of the trade marks of Marvel comics during the 60s that set it apart from DC...that the good guys didn't always get along? Did any team exemplify this concept better then the FF?

 

And the last time I checked, there are only four members of the FF...while the two X-Men movies had to incorporate several more main characters plus other lesser background characters into the plot. Fleshing out the FF characters over the course of a 2 hour movie shouldn't be that hard.

 

One more thing (no pun intended); I predict that this will be a very sleek, modernized version of the FF. Look for all the characters (including Reed and Ben) to be considerably younger then what we are used to.

 

- The origin might indeed be difficult to translate for a modern audience. The 45 year old tale of a space race to beat the commies to the moon just won't cut it, especially if the rumors of including Doom as part of the original "five" are true. However, all the info I read on early scripts seemed to indicate the writers are moving away from the origin story all together and more toward an established period in the FFs career, where they are already well-known and enjoying their celebrity. This to me is preferable then the hour long snooze-fest I had to endure through waiting for the Hulk to finally make his first appearance in his movie.

 

Lastly, the villain will be Doom. Need I really elaborate on the possibilities here?

 

I think this is the trickiest of the Marvel properties to convert into a movie, but possibly the best as well. Even if the trailers are killer, and the buzz is solid, and the actors top-notch, the FF movie will still get nowhere near the opening weekend record of Spider-Man. But, it can be pretty darn good. And if the -script is reflective of the YEARS of rewrites, the movie should sustain its momentum through most of the summer of 2005.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bronty]

I don't think Dr Doom would be good because people would just think he's Magneto with a diff costume

I'd think that Super-Krull guy could make a good villain in a movie.

 

Brian

 

Super-Skrull...

[murph0]

Yeh whatever his name is.. he's the guy that can change into other people and their powers, right? Or maybe Sub Mariner can fight the FF?

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

I think this is the trickiest of the Marvel properties to convert into a movie, but possibly the best as well.

 

I don't know about "the best" (Spidey is the most seamless, obviously), and while I do agree that it could be quite good, I don't have a great deal of confidence.

 

Spider-man was like giving Hollywood a pre-written movie -script on a platter, and they still figured out a way to screw it up, once they moved past the original material and into Green Power Ranger territory.

 

And look at the Hulk. A classic riff on Jekyl/Hyde and the first hour was like watching paint dry. Daredevil was a joke, and while the X-Men is a team-based concept and they deserve kudos for pulling it off, I still think Wolverine carries the movies, the current X-Men is a newer concept, and the nifty powers/CGI bring in the kiddies.

 

The Fantastic Four would be one property that would require a total revamp to work, and if they pull it off perfectly, has a chance to be quite a good flick. But with the above examples, I don't have a lot of faith.

[fantastic_four]

If it were up to YOU - - what would YOUR FF movie be about??

Not what you want it to be about, but what would appeal to the most ticket buyers?

 

I don't really know. I think I could come up with something, but not until I had been at the drawing board for a few days or weeks...can't wait to see what Bendis does with them and I find it interesting that he asked Quesada if he could take a crack at it. There's a lot of great material which could be molded into something original and compelling, but it also could end up being extremely derivate. I agree with Joe that Spidey is a much better character and AF15 was Stan Lee's opus, but the multiple relationships (Reed/Ben as buddy/buddy, Reed/Sue as husband/wife, Johnny/Ben as comedic rivals, Sue/Johnny as brother sister) present in the FF can also be appealing to a slightly older audience and to women if the material is good. If it feels like that recent "Lost in Space" movie with superpowers, then no, it's gonna suck.

 

I can't imagine that the movie won't focus on Doom. I think he can be a really great character, and his tie to Reed is compelling...I actually found their relationship in the unreleased FF movie somewhat compelling and they BARELY developed it. My favorite Waid issue recently was that prologue issue to the "Unthinkable" storyline where Doom went back to visit his childhood sweetheart...he's just SUCH a great villain! I don't think Magneto when I think Doom, I think Darth Vader--which is what George Lucas was thinking also, he admits he got Vader's look from Dr. Doom.

 

I can only assume those actors were reading with Natalie Portman because she's Sue! She does remind me of her in the face, now that I think about it...she's awfully short but oh well.

[supapimp]

if they were smart they would just do the movie like FF 1 versus the mole man and his minions.

[Drummy]

I think an FF movie will only succeed if the writers/producers focus on the "troubled family" aspect of the four heroes. Here's my fantasy :

 

The film itself would start "in medias res", with Reed Richards (George Clooney) discovering Dr. Doom's (Jeremy Irons) diabolical plot through his exceptional analysis of some hum-drum natural phenomenon (such as an earthquake in Asia that is somehow tied to an almost undetectable power source in Latveria). We never see Doom early on except in profile (and voice-over) - we only know that he scares the heck out of the FF, who have stalemated him many times before.

 

Soon Sue (Dianne Lane), Ben (CGI, but in human form Russell Crowe) and Johnny (you pick the actor) are in the mix, but it's clear that there are problems. Sue is concerned about how Franklin is being "raised," but can never get enough of Reed's attention - he's always immersed in his work, particularly a "cure" for Ben's condition. Ben, meanwhile, is portrayed as a brooding, sometimes funny, and reluctant hero, constantly inferring that Reed is to blame for his appearance and fragmented relationship with Alicia (either a complete unknown or Julianne Moore). Johnny is a show-off who uses his flame to augment his social life, but his puerile actions also contribute to a tenuous relationship with the US federal government (not to mention the NYC police). Fights break out among the four from time to time, allowing a taste of their super-powers to be revealed to the audience. Despite their problems, however, the four continue to help others, putting their own issues on hold for the time being.

 

Through their conflicts, the film's audience gets to flashback to their painful origin (revealing Reed's hubris) and the horror of the cosmic rays. Later in the film, when the foursome invades Latveria, Doom's origin and his ties to Reed are also revealed in flashback. Tensions among the four erupt when one of them (pick somebody - anybody but Ben, who needs to blame them) fails to accomplish a needed goal, helping set Doom's master plan into action. People start being threatened around the world, and only by working together can they stop Doom in time to save the majority of humanity; meanwhile, Alicia, Franklin, etc. are in mortal danger.

 

Eventually teamwork saves the day - perhaps with an important loss -, and the FF's personal frustrations are put on "simmer" instead of "boil over." Doom's plan is defeated but Doom, of course, escapes. During the conflict, however, Doom realizes that he can manipulate the Fantastic Four to aid their own destruction in the sequel. "Their failure to master themselves will cause them to serve another master..." he muses just before the film's denouement.

 

FF 2 will feature a Doom reappearance but also introduce the threat of Galactus. FF 3 is Galactus and the Surfer. FF 4 is Doom's stealing the Surfer's powers, leading to a massive battle scene.

 

Sound good?

 

Dan

 

 

[supapimp]

Sound good?

 

Dan

 

4 movies!?! sounds optimistic

[fantastic_four]

FF 2 will feature a Doom reappearance but also introduce the threat of Galactus. FF 3 is Galactus and the Surfer. FF 4 is Doom's stealing the Surfer's powers, leading to a massive battle scene.

 

Sound good?

 

Sounds great! Can't wait until FF 3--Galactus ROCKS!!!

[Aces]

I can't believe this thread hasn't gotten 5 stars yet!

I'll fix that...