noobie OA question #2: someone talk me OFF THE LEDGE!

[Jesusjon]

haha This thread started off as a no holds barred exploration of why to move from slabs to OA. But it could just as easily turn the corner to "why it's tough to be an OA collector" at this point. Maybe that will partially "talk you down" -- it's only fair you know this stuff.

 

The dark side:

 

This is a competition. Having to compete for art is something you'll either relish or despise based on your personality. Just remember there's lots of art out there, and not to take losing out to Alex Gonzalez (or AN Alex Gonzalez) personally. Of course, having to compete with the same folks you're networking with and befriending is going to lead to a pickle every now and again. If you try to act reasonably and with a reasonable amount of respect for your fellow collectors, then not TOO many people will end up hating you. (but someone/a few surely will, and be prepared for that to happen)

 

Money talks. Anyone can put together an absolutely incredible blue chip collection if they're willing to spend like money means nothing. Though not EVERY individual piece is obtainable, almost everyone "has their price" on a piece of art. This is both good and bad in that you will be lured toward bankruptcy the more in love with the hobby you become.

 

You will be outspent. Whatever you want to collect, there could easily be one or several people out there with more money outspending you, or simply spending what you cannot and obtaining the nice examples while you get nothing or face only obtaining lesser examples. While you can probably find a 10.0 copy of Killing Joke, you may likely never be able to acquire a page from the book. This may drive you slowly insane over your collecting career, Joker style.

 

People will try to take advantage of you. Just remember that if a dealer does it, it's just business. Sometimes it will be someone that calls themselves your friend. This will suck. Most importantly though, no one is holding a gun to your head to buy a piece of art. If someone starts to rake you over the coals or deal with you dishonestly, just walk away from the deal. Even if you get the art after that, you will likely not be able to look at it the same way again, and will likely be looking to sell at a loss very soon afterwards.

This includes artists.

 

Anyhow, it's a great hobby, but literally a year or so in, I almost quit, because learning some of the above lessons embittered me and stressed me out to no end. Some moments I'm still embittered, but you just have to learn to appreciate the gems of OA you do obtain and love, and not focus on keeping up with the Gonzalezes.

[PhiGam-migration]

I started with no focus which is why I have a lot of different stuff. I then went super focused on just kitson stuff and sold some of my non essential. Then jonjesper went and became an art rep, so I expanded my focus to add Mahnke.

 

Now I'm really moving all my slabs (down to like 6 SS books) to fund art. I'm on shiverbones list as people say everyone should have a shiverbones original.

 

My goal coming up is to move all non splash OA with the exception of my Kitson stuff. I want to work on cover/splashes/commissions for now on.

 

Some of my future goals are to get a Noto painted piece and a harris starman splash. OA collecting is the most fun I have had and as a result I hardly buy comics anymore.

 

this is the next step for me, if i decide to make the leap deciding which slabs to keep will be the easy part...

 

what i'd have to figure out next would be what my true niche would be

 

thanks for sharing, anthony

[PhiGam-migration]

Thanks (thumbs u

 

Im just really glad that I can own stuff from my favorite books and easily my favorite artist and still have money to eat! I first was big on ASM OA but there is this guy that seems to get all the great stuff, mostly from the artists rep'd by Spencer Beck, his name is Alex Gonzalez, go look him up on CAF, quite impressive. I think the turning point in my collection was actually recently. I have the sketch art that made the sketch cover to ASM 546, and i really wanted the inked finished version to go along with it. I talked to steve mcniven at NYCC last year and he said he didnt know if it was sold or where it was. I contacted spencer beck and asked if it had been sold and he said he thought it was since he didnt have it. Lo and behold a month ago it finds its way into Alex's collection, so i said screw it. Im strictly Invincible covers now, maybe the occassional splash, and the occassional Walking Dead cover.

Well quit being the "Alex Gonzalez" of Invincible! Leave some for the rest of us!

 

Tyler would be MY alex gonzalez Scoring up all of the sweet vinci covers before i even know they exist I would be happy to play as Tyler's second fiddle and go after all of my favorite vinci splashes, but then i'd have to compete with Kevin boyd! *sigh*

 

i have some more thinking to do, methinks

[PhiGam-migration]

haha This thread started off as a no holds barred exploration of why to move from slabs to OA. But it could just as easily turn the corner to "why it's tough to be an OA collector" at this point. Maybe that will partially "talk you down" -- it's only fair you know this stuff.

 

The dark side:

 

This is a competition. Having to compete for art is something you'll either relish or despise based on your personality. Just remember there's lots of art out there, and not to take losing out to Alex Gonzalez (or AN Alex Gonzalez) personally. Of course, having to compete with the same folks you're networking with and befriending is going to lead to a pickle every now and again. If you try to act reasonably and with a reasonable amount of respect for your fellow collectors, then not TOO many people will end up hating you. (but someone/a few surely will, and be prepared for that to happen)

 

Money talks. Anyone can put together an absolutely incredible blue chip collection if they're willing to spend like money means nothing. Though not EVERY individual piece is obtainable, almost everyone "has their price" on a piece of art. This is both good and bad in that you will be lured toward bankruptcy the more in love with the hobby you become.

 

You will be outspent. Whatever you want to collect, there could easily be one or several people out there with more money outspending you, or simply spending what you cannot and obtaining the nice examples while you get nothing or face only obtaining lesser examples. While you can probably find a 10.0 copy of Killing Joke, you may likely never be able to acquire a page from the book. This may drive you slowly insane over your collecting career, Joker style.

 

People will try to take advantage of you. Just remember that if a dealer does it, it's just business. Sometimes it will be someone that calls themselves your friend. This will suck. Most importantly though, no one is holding a gun to your head to buy a piece of art. If someone starts to rake you over the coals or deal with you dishonestly, just walk away from the deal. Even if you get the art after that, you will likely not be able to look at it the same way again, and will likely be looking to sell at a loss very soon afterwards.

This includes artists.

 

Anyhow, it's a great hobby, but literally a year or so in, I almost quit, because learning some of the above lessons embittered me and stressed me out to no end. Some moments I'm still embittered, but you just have to learn to appreciate the gems of OA you do obtain and love, and not focus on keeping up with the Gonzalezes.

 

VERY valuable insight for me Thank you!

 

and Thank you ALL for giving your thoughts...tyler, schmidty, agoo,mac-man, keith and even mr. carpenter have chimed in here with their wisdom

 

I can ask for only one more thing...MORE INPUT PLEASE

[Pirate]

Become acquaintances with people who have the same focus is important. I keep in contact with Kitson collectors on his yahoo board and just recently one of the big collectors put some stuff up for sale. I grabbed two great pages for a song as he knows me and knew the stuff would go to a good home. Networking is very important.

 

 

I sold a great black adam splash to Kevin Boyd as he likes kissing pages, so now he owes his soul to me.

 

 

[Drummy]

I agree with the need to work toward a focus, perhaps slowly and without a lot of purchases, then create the network of like-minded collectors.

 

Once a comics junkie, I moved from complete runs to HG slabs to key slabs and finally gave up on the comics altogether -- I felt like I was in Vegas and couldn't trust anyone anymore to be honest and consistent, and that includes CGC.

 

In art, I've found the people to be competitive and perhaps even manipulative, but at least the art itself isn't manipulated... After realizing that I could never afford the range of Bronze Marvel art I wanted on my teacher's salary, I focused on a nostalgic "high" that gets me fired up more than any other -- George Perez's brief run on Fantastic Four with Joe Sinnott as his inker. I'm now trying to put together only 7 issues of work (about 120 pages total) that will likely take me 50 years to even try to complete. But now I know most of the players in this market, have good relationships with many of them, and stick to my annual budget. By the end of this year, I hope to have 18 of these pages, about 15% of the total.

 

So -- find your holy focus, get to know the people involved, and be patient. If you chase middling art, you'll lose money and interest. Be sure each piece is a keeper!

 

Dan

[westform]

A few suggestions from someone that still lives in both worlds

1. Decide what you are going to collect and stick to it. I have seen people too many times jump around with their collecting and too often they fund the "new" passion by selling off the old passion at a loss. The reason is too often when someone jumps into a new collecting area, they buy recklessly and over pay.

2. Make contact with EVERYONE possible. Networking is key to tracking down items.

3. When you tell someone "if you ever decide to sell, let me know, be ready to buy it. If the opportunity comes up, you better plunk down the cash otherwise you may get a bad rep

4. Research before you buy. www.comicartfan.com offers FREE market data, USE IT!!!!

 

thank you

 

Regarding point #1. I feel I have made a career of finding new areas of interest in Original Art.... that's part of the fun for me. I like a wide variety of comics (always have) and so it seems natural to dip a toe in here and there. And, I practice and usually advice people to just jump in. Say you decide you want the perfect Cockrum Xmen page for you. Ok, they're pretty hard to come by, so buy the first decent example you can find. Then wait til the perfect example comes up or at least a better one and trade up. In the interim, more than likely the page you own will have gone up in value to match the increasing price tag of the perfect page you just found. That way you are not priced out of the market. A caveat to this rule: don't sell at a loss. If you follow the age old advice oft given here of buy what you like and can afford to lose, then you shouldn't ever have to sell at a loss. If you can't break even or make money on your fill-in Cockrum page, then keep it and don't upgrade. I have rarely had this happen myself unless I grossly overpay in a fit of mental spasm. (doesn't happen often). Usually the piece will have gone up as time has passed so it becomes easy and much more affordable to 'trade' up. In other words, don't spend all your time waiting for the perfect page and perfect deal. You may just wait yourself out of the hobby...

[BucOne-migration]

 

a lot of great advice, just wanted to add that knowing the right price to pay for a piece of OA

isn't always easy when you're talking about a one of a kind. Regardless of what the previous

owner paid or if it's new OA being placed in the market what is a fair price, especially if it's

not a key artist. The price could actually go down on some non key art. Example would be

if the art was hot at the time you purchased and cold when wanting to sell. I also noticed

most of you exited the Comic world for OA, but what about the GA hard to find key comics

that OA isn't available for purchase because it's been disguarded or someone has your

one of a kind cover or splash page, at least you can find it in a comic. Obviously comics

aren't the same animal but they are still very appealing especially early GA.

 

 

 

[BucOne-migration]

 

 

sorry forgot to mention, I feel todays comics have absolutely no collectible value what so ever,

even variants. So OA would definitely be the winner. Also wanted to add on the comic side, that owning a pedigree has a one of a kind feel to it.

 

 

 

[westform]

Yes, GA art is tougher but some is out there.... and, sometimes having to hunt and wait longer makes the payoff even more special. Someone posted a run of Planets maybe in this thread, you are not going to find many of those covers. The #1 is out there and one or two more, but that's all I've seen. And, yes, it's near to impossible to find a Timely Schomburg cover; you have to make due with a Harvey title pretty much. So, yes, there are tradeoffs. But, somehow it seems to work out. You find different examples, pages, sketches or recreations if you can't find the original. If your tastes are somewhat broad it is easier.

 

Prices are tough to figure for a newbie... my advice is ask someone who knows and will give advice... privately.

[westform]

forgot to mention, price could go down just as easily on 'key' art; reason being, you probably had to sell a kidney to buy it in the first place and who knows if you overpaid. There is plenty of quality but overlooked art that you can consider an even better 'investment'. Hey, if you bought a Blondie cover for $60 bucks in the last comiclink auction you could probably get twice as much in a few months.

[adamstrange]

And, yes, it's near to impossible to find a Timely Schomburg cover; you have to make due with a Harvey title pretty much.

 

If you like Schomburg original art, the cost per item is pretty darn high, even for the few Harvey covers that exist. The same scarcity rules apply to several other artists I really like and that limits my art collecting and keeps me motivated for my comics collecting. If I were someone that collected modern artists who made their pages available to the public, then I would be quite happy with TPBs to read and original art on my wall vs. a collection of slabs.

[PhiGam-migration]

well, I'm convinced..

 

I'm jumping off the ledge!

[Pirate]

some great mahnke pages on the bay right now

[PhiGam-migration]

some great mahnke pages on the bay right now

 

:o

 

did you guys see that?? mr. carpenter smiled!

 

he IS human!

 

 

[PhiGam-migration]

so, after taking the 'leap' it seems like i have a few steps...let me know if i'm missing anything:

 

1) make good contacts with the artist / dealer / other collector's with similar focus COMPLETED!

2) determine when / where / how to move extraneous slabs to gather funds for OA

3) determine OA collecting focus COMPLETED!

4) STICK to OA collecting focus

5) repeat step 4

6) gather all of the pretty, newfound OA and put it up on my wall

 

am i missing anything else?

[Pirate]

Your tastes will change.

[westform]

Your tastes will change.

 

I already mentioned that.... but it didn't make the top 6.

[comix4fun]

so, after taking the 'leap' it seems like i have a few steps...let me know if i'm missing anything:

 

1) make good contacts with the artist / dealer / other collector's with similar focus COMPLETED!

2) determine when / where / how to move extraneous slabs to gather funds for OA

3) determine OA collecting focus COMPLETED!

4) STICK to OA collecting focus

5) repeat step 4

6) gather all of the pretty, newfound OA and put it up on my wall

 

am i missing anything else?

 

 

You went WAY TOO FAST completing #4...coming from experience, you can't pick that out of thin air. You can't make that call with your head. It comes from the heart and it will take you a good long while to get there too with lots of twists and turns thrown in for good measure.

 

You will know when you are there when you find yourself appreciating the method of inking lines on a character's (cape, car, hat, leg) and you start to care little about which characters are featured as to who inked the piece and what era from the artist's professional life the piece came from.

 

Just sayin',

 

Chris

[PhiGam-migration]

hurmmm

 

i have selected invincible covers/splashes, jeff smith sketches and jae lee Dark Tower pages...i think that leaves enough room for tastes to change, don't it?

 

accounting for focus changes is tough to put in the top 6 for a noobie with less than ten total pieces!

 

edit: perhaps i did complete step 3 a little too fast...but i think i'm on the right track as far as a starting focus