Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[COI]

Okay, you win

 

 

 

How's the ankle?

[VintageComics]

Okay, you win

 

 

 

How's the ankle?

 

I can walk at about 50-60% of the strength I had. I can skip a little Probably won't be able to run for a couple of months yet (if at all - hopefully soon).

 

It's been a tremendous learning experience, for sure.

[COI]

Okay, you win

 

 

 

How's the ankle?

 

I can walk at about 50-60% of the strength I had. I can skip a little Probably won't be able to run for a couple of months yet (if at all - hopefully soon).

 

It's been a tremendous learning experience, for sure.

 

Good that you're getting around at least.

 

I know exactly how you feel. It's humbling.

[Logan510]

Greggy could benefit from a press.

You would benefit from a physical beat down.

 

 

Let him wipe the brown off his nose first

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

 

If anyone imagines there is conflict going on here, they are mistaken. This is a discussion between grown men, which requires sober judgment and critical analysis. That doesn't mean there is conflict.

 

[VintageComics]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

 

If anyone imagines there is conflict going on here, they are mistaken. This is a discussion between grown men, which requires sober judgment and critical analysis. That doesn't mean there is conflict.

 

Couldn't you just say something like "we're cool, bro."

[cloudofwit]

Some people just hold ideological beliefs on this. There is no compromise.

 

Dude, are you serious? Ideology implies irrationality, when I've made rational, logically sound arguments that you haven't actually engaged beyond telling me my arguments are emotional and existential. Just saying an argument is this or that isn't in itself an argument.

 

Last thing, just to clear the air, this is false.

 

Your concerns over whether or not a given book you own was pressed is often existential, you're concerned about the concept itself unless you have one of these poor mangled books where it is obvious. Also, many of these arguments are emotional arguments, so yes, I did say that and stand by it.

 

Your concerns over the impact on the hobby are very valid - I agree with many and I think others that are "pro" on this topic agree as well.

 

I once read an article that talked about "text only" arguments. The findings basically found that both sides come away from them thinking the other side held much more radical beliefs on the topic than they actually did. I always try to keep this in mind on here.

 

Everyone in this thread is OK by me, even if I disagree with your stance

 

If I may. Emotions tend to get a bad rap. Emotions and logic can date and ultimately wed...without necessarily wanting or having to divorce. I don't see irreconcilable differences at every turn. Didn't good ol' Aristotle many moons ago talk about how logos & pathos are both needed? (A similar analogy is that common school of thought that pits science & religion against one another, practiced by both sides. But it's wildly_fanciful_statement. Historically speaking, it can be proven to be wildly_fanciful_statement. It's understandable on the surface but it's ultimately shallow, lacking any gray or nuance.)

 

In other words, logic and emotion can be pressed. Together. Up against one another. Good God Almighty!

 

Mods notified.

[VintageComics]

Science and religion are two sides of the same thought.

 

The only thing separating the two is the ability of the person to understand the other side.

[SquareChaos]

Science and religion are two sides of the same thought.

 

The only thing separating the two is the ability of the person to understand the other side.

 

You're going to start a whole other thread with this one

[RockMyAmadeus]

Well if my car has a minor dent, in SOME cases I can knock out the dent. Haven't changed the parts, haven't even repainted. Does it count as restored? Can you always tell there was even a dent there before?

 

Has the car benefited? I would say yes. Has the owner also benefited? I would also say yes.

 

Is this so different then pressing a comic?

 

That is the exact analogy I used. Coming from the automotive industry (high end European cars like Porsche, Mercedes, Rolls, Jaguar, Lotus etc) it is industry norm to press out a dent without repainting the entire fender AND there is zero disclosure.

 

And even if there was, because it's invisible I don't think anyone cares.

 

Yeah, perfect analogy, except that when you press out that ding in a car, you do so to preserve its value, not to then flip that car for 10 times what you paid.

 

 

But the argument here is with the market and its absurd overvaluation of tiny differences in condition as represented by the numbers on the label, not with the analogy.

 

 

That's your argument, not the one underpinning Roy's analogy. I'm saying the analogy, on its own merit sucks, and even adding your point, the argument still sucks because the absurd overvaluation doesn't exist in the car market. You can't just discount the profit motive, as I highly doubt that Roy, who makes a living selling comics, would press books for their "benefit" without the profit motive inherent to the absurd overvaluation of uber high grades.

 

 

But the ability to "flip it for 10 times what you paid" isn't a function of the press....the press only fixes, it doesn't value the book at 10 times greater than it was. The market does that.

 

Of course books are being pressed for profit. Absolutely! I think, ultimately, what the whole pressing discussion has done is reveal the madness of paying 10 times the price for something that isn't 10 times better in condition. That's the real problem, here. And until and IF the market ever stops doing that, this will never, ever change.

 

I look at pressing in a completely different way than most. I look at a book and I say "I can make that book look better."

 

Most everybody else says "I can make that book worth more."

 

And that's why I haven't been successful as a commercial presser. I take too long, and work too much on individual books, and respect the paper, and don't try to force anything, whether the book is worth $1 or $10,000.

 

And that, obviously, doesn't work for most people who want pressing done. They don't understand the work AND skill AND talent that's involved in doing it right, and they certainly aren't willing to pay for it. And why should they? If they can pay someone to quick press a book, and it gets a 9.4, and I spend 6 hours on the book, and it still gets a 9.4 because of technical flaws....but damn does it look nice...then what's the payoff?

 

I love the work. It's amazing what is possible to do with old paper. It's incredibly rewarding. I imagine it's the same feeling people get who restore other things. It's just amazing what you can get this old, fragile, delicate paper to do.

 

But the market doesn't care about any of that.

 

Maybe someday it will. Who knows?

 

 

 

 

[Sqeggs]

Two parting thoughts before I give up on this thread.

 

1. Not only has the pressing horse left the barn, he's crossed the field, gone up over the mountain, hopped a freight train, got off at a port, boarded a ship and is now cruising somewhere in the South Atlantic.

 

2. Down through the years there's been an awful lot of off-putting stuff that's happened in the hobby from shady practices by some of the largest dealers, to undisclosed color touch and glue on high-dollar books, to faking of pedigree marks on books, to auction shilling, to the abrupt turn the hobby took when CGC arrived and books went from being read to being sealed away in plastic forevermore.

 

With all these other issues, I find it curious that using a press to remove a bend or a ding or two from a book causes some people such angst.

 

Hobbies are like everything else--jobs, friendships, marriages--in being a mixture of good and bad. I guess it's for each of us to determine whether the bad has started to exceed the good and it's time to exit.

 

Still, despite having read through all the anti-pressing sentiments, it's puzzling that it would be this issue that has made some people draw back from the hobby.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the noobs: before you start humping buttons, I'm friends with Roy and RMA, so no one's fighting here. Put on your big-boy pants.

 

 

If anyone imagines there is conflict going on here, they are mistaken. This is a discussion between grown men, which requires sober judgment and critical analysis. That doesn't mean there is conflict.

 

Couldn't you just say something like "we're cool, bro."

 

 

An emphatic No. My continued presence here is very much at risk. I need to not make ambiguous statements, then, about these situations and where I stand on them.

 

[Broke as a Joke]

How many people were pressing books before the existence of CGC?

[namisgr]

A tiny fraction as many as now. And you could still find high grade early Marvels that hadn't been manipulated.

[VintageComics]

How many people were pressing books before the existence of CGC?

 

Not many, but there were a couple of dealers who did it en masse even as early as the 1990's and there were possibly others. The two most well known are

 

Greg Buls, who I believe found the Circle 8 Collection (which was originally labeled as a Pedigree) as well as the Recil Macon Pedigree.

 

Marnin Rosenberg who found the Mass collection.

 

From what I understand (from Richard / Bedrock City) and others, both pressed their books extensively before selling.

 

Obviously, it wasn't nearly as mainstream as it is today.

 

 

[Buzzetta]

has any headway been made in this discussion over the last ten years ?

[namisgr]

has any headway been made in this discussion over the last ten years ?

 

Absolutely. I gave up on collecting runs of high grade SA Marvels that hadn't been pressed, and sold off my entire SA collection. As we've learned, several other hobbyists did, too.

[burntboy]

has any headway been made in this discussion over the last ten years ?

 

Absolutely. I gave up on collecting runs of high grade SA Marvels that hadn't been pressed, and sold off my entire SA collection. As we've learned, several other hobbyists did, too.

 

I stumbled across this thread a while ago and had to give up after i read the first 20pages from 2016. Not much has changed as far as opposite opinions go. I actually thought that this topic had finally succumbed to the back pages of comic history and pressing had simply become an accepted reality.

 

Seems that is still not the case. Was there anything in the last 25 pages that would be worth reading??

[namisgr]

Probably not, Harry, although some of the fruits of pressing have definitely reaped changes on the hobby over the past ten years. To name one, it's become tough to find high grade early Silver that hasn't been pressed, and the opportunity to collect long runs of unpressed high grade copies of these runs has diminished to virtually impossible.

[VintageComics]

has any headway been made in this discussion over the last ten years ?

 

Absolutely. I gave up on collecting runs of high grade SA Marvels that hadn't been pressed, and sold off my entire SA collection. As we've learned, several other hobbyists did, too.

 

The flip side of the coin is that many new buyers have entered into the hobby since pressing has become a mainstay and accept it, even when collecting high grade Vintage books.

 

There's always change.