Are "acid-free" backing boards truly acid-free? Time to pH test & find out! 13 13

[Define999]

Awesome post by the way! My two cents, if you really want a backing board or a comic box that acts like microchamber? Get one from the source.....

 

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_11/section11_14.htm

 

Expensive but the real deal....

 

I use Egerber boards and Egerber mylars for all my books. 5 sheets of microchamber interleaved in each book to deal with acidity. Someone earlier discussed the longevity of microchamber paper and how 7 years was conservative. Well I spoke with a gentlemen that was involved in the testing and creation of conservation resources microchamber paper. I talked to him when I placed my last order with CRI. I told him what CGC said about the 7 years inert thing. He laughed, and told me that microchamber paper was designed to protect valuable ephemera collections in the most polluted environments in the US... like the library's in our biggest cities. ie: New York, Washington DC etc.....

 

He told me the amount of pollutants and acids they pushed thru these papers during testing was staggering, and that realistically it could be 50 years before a sheet loses its acid nuetralization qualities.... If he wanted to sell paper he could have told me somthing different, so I tend to believe him. Real nice guy, and passionate about conservation. He told me that CRI loves comic collectors, they are quirky and different from the usual conversations they have with library archivest's.

 

One thing I remember him saying was that if you are not going to give a paper a deacidification bath which actually leaves a akaline buffer in the paper to be conserved. Next best thing is to make sure your enclosures are not contributing to the problem first. So no acidic woods, papers or plastics... and then make sure the paper is enclosed with microchamber for acid nuetralization from the paper itself. after that comes dark, stable, cool and non-humid environment etc.....

 

I wish I had recorded my conversation with the guy... someone should do an interview with people in the know at CRI. Oh, one other thing about microchamber technology is that it can be turned into almost anything... if you really want to get anal.... paint the inside of your comic enclosure with microchamber emulsion.

 

from the site....

MicroChamber Emulsion

MicroChamber Emulsion is designed to be applied to exhibit cases and display units, drawers, shelves and cabinet surfaces, and for use inside packing and shipping crates to protect artworks and valuable historic artifacts. Surfaces treated with new MicroChamber Emulsion protect against airborne pollutants from both indoor and outdoor sources, the cumulative by-products of deterioration, and harmful substances which migrate from materials such as wood. MicroChamber Emulsion is the only surface treatment which can provides preventative conservation protection in rooms which house collections, in conservation labs, photographic darkrooms, exhibition galleries, offices and homes. It is indicated in locations surrounding laser printers and photocopiers, and internal environments where high levels of ozone, peroxides and other airborne pollutants exist. MicroChamber Emulsion may be applied to paper, board, cloth, canvas, wood, metal, glass, plaster, painted or unpainted drywall, foam, plastic and to most common structural substrates. MicroChamber Emulsion will be effective applied in areas open to environmental air exchange or in closed storage, shipping and exhibition cases. Dries to an effective preventative conservation surface within eight hours. Contains activated carbon in an aqueous dispersion with calcium carbonate and acrylic polymer. pH 8.0, total solids 37.4% (± 1%). Patented. 750 ml. Item MCE-750.

 

link here.....

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/S%20CATALOG/MicroChamber.htm

[selegue]

Your understanding of biochemistry and cause/effect is about as deep as your understanding of pH buffers.

 

According to The Alzheimer's Society, the overwhelming medical and scientific opinion is that studies have not convincingly demonstrated a causal relationship between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease.

 

Yes, I know there there are some people still clinging to the belief that aluminum exposure "causes" Alzheimer's disease, but the connection has been debunked. Some people believe in astrology too.

 

JPS

It was a joke. We really didn't think we were going to have to defend ourselves where the correlation between Aluminium and Alzheimer's disease is concerned. However, now that we understand the ground rules, we will refrain from making any off-topic statement which can lead to an argument.

 

Sorry, I missed the irony.

 

JPS

[Eggman]

BCW Supplies: Thanks for contributing to the conversation. I have a few questions, please:

 

Are your boards lingin free?

Are your boards P.A.T. certified?

Do your boards contain Alpha Cellulose wood pulp?

Do your boards contain any recycled product?

Do your boards contain any optical brighteners?

 

Thank you again,

Eggman

[FFB]

Thanks for posting that. It confirms what people thought about CGC's 7-year estimate on the Microchamber paper being way too low.

 

Awesome post by the way! My two cents, if you really want a backing board or a comic box that acts like microchamber? Get one from the source.....

 

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_11/section11_14.htm

 

Expensive but the real deal....

 

I use Egerber boards and Egerber mylars for all my books. 5 sheets of microchamber interleaved in each book to deal with acidity. Someone earlier discussed the longevity of microchamber paper and how 7 years was conservative. Well I spoke with a gentlemen that was involved in the testing and creation of conservation resources microchamber paper. I talked to him when I placed my last order with CRI. I told him what CGC said about the 7 years inert thing. He laughed, and told me that microchamber paper was designed to protect valuable ephemera collections in the most polluted environments in the US... like the library's in our biggest cities. ie: New York, Washington DC etc.....

 

He told me the amount of pollutants and acids they pushed thru these papers during testing was staggering, and that realistically it could be 50 years before a sheet loses its acid nuetralization qualities.... If he wanted to sell paper he could have told me somthing different, so I tend to believe him. Real nice guy, and passionate about conservation. He told me that CRI loves comic collectors, they are quirky and different from the usual conversations they have with library archivest's.

 

One thing I remember him saying was that if you are not going to give a paper a deacidification bath which actually leaves a akaline buffer in the paper to be conserved. Next best thing is to make sure your enclosures are not contributing to the problem first. So no acidic woods, papers or plastics... and then make sure the paper is enclosed with microchamber for acid nuetralization from the paper itself. after that comes dark, stable, cool and non-humid environment etc.....

 

I wish I had recorded my conversation with the guy... someone should do an interview with people in the know at CRI. Oh, one other thing about microchamber technology is that it can be turned into almost anything... if you really want to get anal.... paint the inside of your comic enclosure with microchamber emulsion.

 

from the site....

MicroChamber Emulsion

MicroChamber Emulsion is designed to be applied to exhibit cases and display units, drawers, shelves and cabinet surfaces, and for use inside packing and shipping crates to protect artworks and valuable historic artifacts. Surfaces treated with new MicroChamber Emulsion protect against airborne pollutants from both indoor and outdoor sources, the cumulative by-products of deterioration, and harmful substances which migrate from materials such as wood. MicroChamber Emulsion is the only surface treatment which can provides preventative conservation protection in rooms which house collections, in conservation labs, photographic darkrooms, exhibition galleries, offices and homes. It is indicated in locations surrounding laser printers and photocopiers, and internal environments where high levels of ozone, peroxides and other airborne pollutants exist. MicroChamber Emulsion may be applied to paper, board, cloth, canvas, wood, metal, glass, plaster, painted or unpainted drywall, foam, plastic and to most common structural substrates. MicroChamber Emulsion will be effective applied in areas open to environmental air exchange or in closed storage, shipping and exhibition cases. Dries to an effective preventative conservation surface within eight hours. Contains activated carbon in an aqueous dispersion with calcium carbonate and acrylic polymer. pH 8.0, total solids 37.4% (± 1%). Patented. 750 ml. Item MCE-750.

 

link here.....

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/S%20CATALOG/MicroChamber.htm

[Aman619]

I love this discussion... and hope in the end we all really know the best solution for storing our comics. However, short of investing many $1000s in storage supplies to protect 10s of 1000s of comics from all eras, Im satisfied with boards and mylites and mylars packed securely in dark cool areas and rarely dislodged as being sufficient for my tenure over my books.

 

Yeah, I can see how Im allowing some deterioration to happen on my watch... but, arent only our best most historic books worthy of the Declaration of Independence storage efforts?

 

I mean, Bangzoom still has them in polyethelne bags! What does that tell you?

[lizards2]

I love this discussion... and hope in the end we all really know the best solution for storing our comics. However, short of investing many $1000s in storage supplies to protect 10s of 1000s of comics from all eras, Im satisfied with boards and mylites and mylars packed securely in dark cool areas and rarely dislodged as being sufficient for my tenure over my books.

 

Yeah, I can see how Im allowing some deterioration to happen on my watch... but, arent only our best most historic books worthy of the Declaration of Independence storage efforts?

 

I mean, Bangzoom still has them in polyethelne bags! What does that tell you?

 

I think that most of the archival type supplies are only really necessary in cruddy, humid, and/or polluted climates. If you are lucky enough to live in a dry, clean, moderate place it is money you could best spend elsewhere - like more comics.

 

I live in an optimal climate, but still opt for Mylite 2s and fullbacks for my expensive stuff - they look nice and are easy to handle. However, I do have 30-35 year old books purchased off the newsstand with no visible deterioration at all, even after being stored that long in cruddy polyethelene sleeves, and some for the past 20-25 years with cruddy, acidic backing boards.

[Aman619]

yeah. thats my experience too.

[BCW Supplies]

Also in the images that Mike provides, he demonstrates that the uncoated side of the new BCW Comic Backing Board is acidic with a pH level of 4. Further, he demonstrates that the pH level of the 2-year old BCW Comic Backing Board is acidic, also with a pH level of 4. Mike states in his conclusion that “these boards will actively contribute, on a molecular level, to the decay of your comic book from the moment they're placed inside the bag.” However, the fact that the pH level of the uncoated side of the BCW Comic Backing Board remains constant is evidence that the acid within the solid bleached sulfate board does not migrate to the comic book.

The follwoing quote is from Thomas Blackburn. Thomas Blackburn is the former President and Chief Operating Officer of Chesapeake Corp. If you are wondering why Mr. Blackburn's opinion matters in this discussion it is because Chesapeake Corp. is a leading supplier of cartons, such as milk cartons, which are also made from solid bleached sulfate. The difference between milk carton stock and the solid bleached sulfate that is used for comic backing boards is that milk carton stock is lined with polyethylene so that the milk doesn't soak through the carton.

 

I do not believe a stabilized acid base process sheet of paper will absorb any significant level of alkaline content from the coating.

Mike's study demonstrates that a stabilized acid base process sheet of paper, such as solid bleached sulfate, will not absorb any significant level of alkaline content from the coating which is also supported by Mr. Blackburn's statement.

[lizards2]

I just ordered another 1000 FBs from egerber on Friday afternoon

[BCW Supplies]

What worries me most of all is that BCW does not seem to understand how an alkaline reserve actually works...

Your understanding of biochemistry and cause/effect is about as deep as your understanding of pH buffers.

It blows my mind that somebody who's supposedly a representative of a company that manufactures comic book supplies could be so ignorant of the science behind the very items they sell.

We have now been told by three different members of this community that we do not understand how an alkaline reserve works, yet none have taken the time to explain it in detail. We stand by our statement that it is basic chemistry. As vacantpassenger pointed out, the calcium carbonate acts as a Lewis base. If anyone can explain how an alkaline reserve works in greater detail, please do so.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Mike's study demonstrates that a stabilized acid base process sheet of paper, such as solid bleached sulfate, will not absorb any significant level of alkaline content from the coating which is also supported by Mr. Blackburn's statement.

 

This is another in a long line of "conclusions" that you have come up with that is completely and utterly incorrect. Mike's study does nothing of the sort.

 

Are you Dana Kellum? "Internet Sales Manager for BCW"

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Where did you get the information that your boards have a "total 3% calcium carbonate" buffer "sitting on top" in the coating?

To clarify, the coating of calcium carbonate is the buffer. The buffer is not in the coating. It is the coating. To answer your specific question, the information is provided by the paper mills and verified by independent laboratory tests.

 

No, that is not an industry accepted definition.

The coating is a COATING.

Any paper labeled as "buffered", should not have any single layer which is acidic (let alone 97% of the board).

Your boards are NOT buffered.

There is a reason why all of the other manufacturers of coated SBS boards do not claim that their board is buffered.

 

When was the last "independent laboratory test"?

[InvstmntComcSuply]

vacantpassenger you are missing the forest for the trees. The coating is not absorbing the acid from the comic it is absorbing the acid from the board!

If this statement were true then solid bleached sulfate boards would turn yellow while they are still sealed in the package.

 

 

 

If this statement were NOT true then it would defy the laws of chemistry.

 

 

Let me cut to the chase and summarize all of this for you.

 

Calcium Carbonate has a pH of about 9.5

The front of the NEW unused BCW board that is, according to BCW sprayed with Calcium Carbonate, tested out at a pH of 7 in Mikes Study.

This means that the coating that BCW applies has already lost almost ALL of its alkaline properties by the time it has been purchased. Before it has even "seen" a comic book. This BCW board will continue to get more and more acidic as it seeks equilibrium with the 24 point thick pH4 SBS board it is sprayed upon, even if a comic book is never placed upon it.

 

 

[namisgr]

If anyone can explain how an alkaline reserve works in greater detail, please do so.

 

I already did, using solutions of the buffer Trizma as an example. For the same reason that the E Gerber fullback did not show an appreciably lower surface pH after being exposed to a comic in the original poster's experiment, the pH of stronger solutions of biological buffers are less effected by addition of an acid than weaker solutions of said buffer.

 

I also explained that calcium carbonate behaves in precisely this manner, as it is released by bone in the human body as a physiological buffer against conditions of metabolic acidosis.

 

It's one thing to completely misinterpret the results of Mike's experiment. It's another thing altogether to continue to insist otherwise despite being given a clearer explanation of the correct interpretation.

[namisgr]

Let me cut to the chase and summarize all of this for you.

 

Calcium Carbonate has a pH of about 9.5

The front of the NEW unused BCW board that is, according to BCW sprayed with Calcium Carbonate, tested out at a pH of 7 in Mikes Study.

This means that the coating that BCW applies has already lost almost ALL of its alkaline properties by the time it has been purchased. Before it has even "seen" a comic book. This BCW board will continue to get more and more acidic as it seeks equilibrium with the 24 point thick pH4 SBS board it is sprayed upon, even if a comic book is never placed upon it.

 

(thumbs u

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

This horse doesn't want to drink, because it might cost him some business and make him look even dumber than he already does.

Perhaps now would be a good time to point out that we have not made a personal attack on any member of this forum. We only came to discuss the study that Mike has posted in a polite and professional manner. In return we have been subjected to a barrage of insults by certain members of this community.

 

 

No surprise which members ether. Surprised they havn't been calling you a liar yet which seems to be one of their defenses when they are wrong.

 

BCW Supplies is confusing "statements of fact" with "barrage of insults".

 

BCW Supplies has consistently misrepresented the BCW comic backing boards and those of Gerber and Bill Cole. They have done this specifically to confuse potential customers into thinking that there is no difference between their coated SBS boards and the buffered boards of Gerber and Cole. They couch their arguments in misstatements of fact and inaccurate jumps in conclusion. Since chemistry is not a high priority for most people, many will take BCW's arguments to mean that there is simply a difference of opinion about the conservation merits of the different boards. This can not be further from the truth. There is NO difference of opinion among anyone that has even a modicum of knowledge regarding paper conservation. The BCW coated SBS board does not hold a candle to the buffered boards of Gerber and Cole.

 

I fully support anyone, including manufacturers, suppliers, dealers and other industry professionals who can add positively to the boards. However, when someone continuously misstates matters of fact, solely for their own financial benefit, they should be called out.

 

[mikenyc]

I have zero background in any science fields and barely passed my Chemistry Regents but can cobble together, with my limited brain capacity, what everyone is trying to express that BCW is clearly not getting.

 

No confusing numbers or fancy words needed. The Gerber boards don't show acid absorption because they work better, for a longer period of time, than your boards do. If you extend the time period of the study to X years eventually the Gerber boards will have a high acid ph like yours did in a much shorter period. That's all that is needed folks.

 

You actually need more, ok. If I took two boards, one with no coating and your board with coating, and compared them in 6 months, and the results showed the uncoated board as having a high acid ph and your coated board was still neutral would that mean the uncoated board was working better than the coated, which is your contention, or would it show that your coated board was still absorbing acid effectively hence the neutral ph, which is everyone else's contention?

 

I have no horse in this race one way or another but if you come on here and try to defend yourselves by repeating what is clearly an illogical conclusion, you are turning me off by insulting my intelligence. I actually use your boards for my everyday books but since you refuse to recognize your place in the hierarchy of archival protection, maybe I'll switch.

 

 

[ImageMask]

 

- Test were performed with a standard pHydrion pH pencil with distilled water.

 

pH of totally pure water = 7.............dependent on temp. Pure water pH, the distilled you used, is easily changed as it has almost no buffer capacity. CO2 in the air bonds with the distilled water so pH is changed. Possibly, with inside air,

into the acidic 5 range. The dye in the pHydrion pH pencil is acid/base and is enough to alter the results of pure water.

 

Just say'n it's not that easy.

 

[mikenyc]

 

- Test were performed with a standard pHydrion pH pencil with distilled water.

 

pH of totally pure water = 7.............dependent on temp. Pure water pH, the distilled you used, is easily changed as it has almost no buffer capacity. CO2 in the air bonds with the distilled water so pH is changed. Possibly, with inside air,

into the acidic 5 range. The dye in the pHydrion pH pencil is acid/base and is enough to alter the results of pure water.

 

Just say'n it's not that easy.

 

Fancy words and numbers!

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

- Test were performed with a standard pHydrion pH pencil with distilled water.

 

pH of totally pure water = 7.............dependent on temp. Pure water pH, the distilled you used, is easily changed as it has almost no buffer capacity. CO2 in the air bonds with the distilled water so pH is changed. Possibly, with inside air,

into the acidic 5 range. The dye in the pHydrion pH pencil is acid/base and is enough to alter the results of pure water.

 

Just say'n it's not that easy.

 

No, it is that easy.

The point IS that the distilled water has almost no buffer capacity. Thus it does not appreciably affect the pH of the paper you put it on. In addition to the fact that the same source of distilled water was likely used on all of the samples.