Comics You personally can't Understand Cost So Much

[RockMyAmadeus]

I could post 1,000 posts on the greatness that is Born Again.

 

It is the greatest Daredevil story ever told, ever. It nails Matt Murdock with scalpel precision, introduces plot elements that are still "borrowed" to this day, and makes the Kingpin into a real badass, and not the fat, impotent goon he'd been up to at that time.

 

"Nothing said "gangster" about this until now. Your work was perfect, Kingpin. You shouldn't have signed it."

 

I can't put into words how I feel about "Born Again". As corny as it may sound, I thought about that story, and in particular issue 228, during the stickiest times of my childhood. My childhood copy was coverless by the time I was done with it.

 

Do you still have it? I've long since lost the only comic I ever read during my childhood, Rom #47.

 

Born Again...just greatness. It's a masterclass in plotting, page layouts, dialogue, plot devices, elements...it's just a masterpiece.

 

I have zero problems putting Born Again amongst the top 5 Marvel stories ever told. Maybe even top 3.

[500Club]

There are few stories that capture the absolute essence of a character like Miller did with DD in Born Again.

 

Maybe Bats in Year One. Maybe.

 

Definitely Joker in Killing Joke.

 

Certainly Swamp Thing in American Gothic.

 

Perhaps Spidey in Deaths of Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy.

 

The Thing in "This Man, This Monster."

 

That's about it.

 

 

Byrne, with Lex Luthor, in Superman 2 and the backup story in Superman 9.

[Logan510]

Oh, and nobody really cares that DD #168 is Frank Miller's first writing.

 

They really don't.

 

The book is valuable because it introduces Elektra, who was about the most kickass female character introduction in the entire Marvel U up to that point.

 

Where Frank Miller's writing starts to matter is Ronin, then DD #227-233, then Dark Knight. Then Year One. Then Sin City. Then 300.

 

And that's about it.

 

They might not care now ( though I doubt that ), but at the time it came out it was a big deal.

[COI]

I could post 1,000 posts on the greatness that is Born Again.

 

It is the greatest Daredevil story ever told, ever. It nails Matt Murdock with scalpel precision, introduces plot elements that are still "borrowed" to this day, and makes the Kingpin into a real badass, and not the fat, impotent goon he'd been up to at that time.

 

"Nothing said "gangster" about this until now. Your work was perfect, Kingpin. You shouldn't have signed it."

 

I can't put into words how I feel about "Born Again". As corny as it may sound, I thought about that story, and in particular issue 228, during the stickiest times of my childhood. My childhood copy was coverless by the time I was done with it.

 

Do you still have it? I've long since lost the only comic I ever read during my childhood, Rom #47.

 

Born Again...just greatness. It's a masterclass in plotting, page layouts, dialogue, plot devices, elements...it's just a masterpiece.

 

I have zero problems putting Born Again amongst the top 5 Marvel stories ever told. Maybe even top 3.

 

It should still be at my mother's house somewhere. I really should go try to dig it up.

 

For me, it's #1, followed by ASM 121-122, then maybe the Dark Phoenix Saga.

[500Club]

I could post 1,000 posts on the greatness that is Born Again.

 

It is the greatest Daredevil story ever told, ever. It nails Matt Murdock with scalpel precision, introduces plot elements that are still "borrowed" to this day, and makes the Kingpin into a real badass, and not the fat, impotent goon he'd been up to at that time.

 

"Nothing said "gangster" about this until now. Your work was perfect, Kingpin. You shouldn't have signed it."

 

I can't put into words how I feel about "Born Again". As corny as it may sound, I thought about that story, and in particular issue 228, during the stickiest times of my childhood. My childhood copy was coverless by the time I was done with it.

 

Do you still have it? I've long since lost the only comic I ever read during my childhood, Rom #47.

 

Born Again...just greatness. It's a masterclass in plotting, page layouts, dialogue, plot devices, elements...it's just a masterpiece.

 

I have zero problems putting Born Again amongst the top 5 Marvel stories ever told. Maybe even top 3.

 

Along with my rack copies, I have the original tpb ...well read, and among the oldest tpb's I own.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

[COI]

[Park]

Greatest DD story ever told.

 

Ever.

 

Bendis can suck it.

 

I had gotten into DD a few years before then and he was right up there with Spidey for me until I read this story. I loved the story and it blew me away but, to me, DD turned to immediately afterwards and I could never get into it again.

 

I think within 6 months to a year, I had stopped buying it altogether and had no interest in DD anymore. It was weird.

 

A few years ago my nephew had me read a DD trade that was when Bendis was rolling along and it was very to me.

 

 

[rjpb]

Given a 40 year history of high grade price appreciation far outstripping low and mid grade, it was inevitable that collectors would start paying super-premiums for "best copies" once they could be somewhat quantified ( CGC), but I have to agree with others, that the multiples paid for 9.8/9.9/10.0 ( whatever is currently "highest grade") copies of books over readily available 9.4/9.6 copies are insane. Especially when one considers that the price ratios between an 8.0 and 9.6 copy of a Golden Age book is likely to be far less than that between a 9.6 and 9.9 copper/modern semi-key.

 

Random thoughts on specific books.

 

I get the interest in TTA #27 - Ant Man ay be 4th tier - but he is the second Marvel SA character to appear - TTA #27 coming out the same month as FF #2, and the book has been a key for SA Marvel collectors since the beginning. I don't collect SA Marvels, but if I did, this book would interest me more than say TOS 39 ( never was an Iron Man fan).

 

Adventure #210 - first Krypto. I don't really get this either. I'd think Action 252 ( 1st Supergirl) would have more interest, and even if easier to find, would command a higher price than Adventure 210, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Iron Fist #14 - seemed overvalued even when anyone cared about the character - its initial rise in value was all because Sabretooth was supposed to be Wolverine's dad, which apparently is not the case. Whoop-dee-doo.

 

I can appreciate the interest in esoteric Bronze like Night Nurse, that were little collected by comic geeks when they came out. I look at this stuff the same way I see price variants - part of the interest is that they are harder to find in any decent condition than most Bronze Age books, and that they are esoteric and not something the typical "fan boy" cares about. Prices may seem goofy compared to random issues of more broadly collected titles, but generally less than more abundant third tier keys from the same era.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There are few stories that capture the absolute essence of a character like Miller did with DD in Born Again.

 

Maybe Bats in Year One. Maybe.

 

Definitely Joker in Killing Joke.

 

Certainly Swamp Thing in American Gothic.

 

Perhaps Spidey in Deaths of Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy.

 

The Thing in "This Man, This Monster."

 

That's about it.

 

 

Byrne, with Lex Luthor, in Superman 2 and the backup story in Superman 9.

 

. Read 'em both, and didn't have much impact.

 

Lex Luthor discoves Clark's identity, then rejects that info..?

 

:shrug:

 

Maybe I'll read it again.

[This is water]

There are few stories that capture the absolute essence of a character like Miller did with DD in Born Again.

 

Maybe Bats in Year One. Maybe.

 

Definitely Joker in Killing Joke.

 

Certainly Swamp Thing in American Gothic.

 

Perhaps Spidey in Deaths of Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy.

 

The Thing in "This Man, This Monster."

 

That's about it.

 

And Watchmen is the absolute deconstruction of those.

 

RMA, Born Again is pure gold. Defiantly one of the heights of his writing career.

 

I don't know if I will not be shuned from this conversation but I also enjoyed Daredevil:Yellow

 

I want to pick it up again.

 

[COI]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

[500Club]

There are few stories that capture the absolute essence of a character like Miller did with DD in Born Again.

 

Maybe Bats in Year One. Maybe.

 

Definitely Joker in Killing Joke.

 

Certainly Swamp Thing in American Gothic.

 

Perhaps Spidey in Deaths of Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy.

 

The Thing in "This Man, This Monster."

 

That's about it.

 

 

Byrne, with Lex Luthor, in Superman 2 and the backup story in Superman 9.

 

. Read 'em both, and didn't have much impact.

 

Lex Luthor discoves Clark's identity, then rejects that info..?

 

:shrug:

 

Maybe I'll read it again.

 

Profile of arrogance, and a subtle cruelty.

[Larryw7]

 

Brings back memories of reading this when it was new. Fantastic stuff, I may need to track down reader copies.

[Logan510]

Born Again is very good but I honestly enjoy his first run more. Born Again reads like a great "last Daredevil" type of story.

[rjpb]

Got to agree with RMA - "Born Again" is peak Miller, and one of the best superhero story arcs ever.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

[Logan510]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

This really explains a lot...seriously

[RockMyAmadeus]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

This really explains a lot...seriously

 

What, my obsession with the material published in the 1980's...?

 

[This is water]

Spoiler - long, effusive post ahead. Read at your peril!

 

 

Listen...I never read comics as a kid. Don't know why, but I didn't. The only comic I ever remember reading is Rom #47.

 

I didn't seriously get into comics until my 18th year. And I'm a fairly smart, fairly well educated guy. I do not have the emotional attachment to comics that a lot of fans do, because I wasn't 9 or 10 or 11 when I read them.

 

I am like that with movies. I saw Poseidon Adventure when I was 8 on some Saturday afternoon matinee thing on TV, and LOVED it. Thought it was the greatest movie ever made. And I was, and remain, a HUGE fan of action suspense films.

 

So, when I saw it on VHS at Costco around 1994, I bought it. Then I watched it.

It was awful. Just hideous.

 

And that sullied the memory for me, in a way. I don't do that anymore.

 

So I can understand how things may not hold up. I enjoyed Dark Phoenix, but it wasn't the earth shattering experience that most folks who read it as a kid thought. The dialogue is stunted and hideous, and painful to read. The PLOTTING is EXCELLENT, and the plot elements were fantastic...but as a work of literature, it falls very short.

 

Born Again has no such issues. I read it the first time when I was 19-20 or so. I have read it a couple of times since then. It has none of the issues that Claremont suffered dramatically from, and even Byrne to an extent.

 

It.

 

Is.

 

Perfection.

 

If you haven't read it...go ahead, do yourself a favor, and pick up the issues. They are CRIMINALLY cheap for what they are.

 

I completely agree. I have nothing to add other than I blame DD 228 being one of my earliest comics for my inability to read most vintage stuff.

 

Think how I feel.

 

As an adult, the very first comics I read were:

 

Born Again

Killing Joke

Animal Man (Grant Morrison)

Miracleman

Swamp Thing (Alan Moore)

Giffen and DeMatteis' Justice League

Batman Year One

Dark Knight Returns

Watchmen

Sandman

 

These were MY FIRST EXPOSURE TO COMICS.

 

I mean, really, what chance did the older stuff have...?

 

This really explains a lot...seriously

 

What, my obsession with the material published in the 1980's...?

 

 

That's what I was thinking.