New to OA Collecting, Advice, tips? 9 9

[ExNihilo]

7 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

You have good instincts, although, I wouldn't call it drek. The professionals who do it work hard and produce quality illustrations. Some are better; some are fan favorites, but if it is published, it has to have some artistic merit.

I didn't mean to belittle the artists work.  I merely meant certain issues that are less desirable or find their way into dollar bins, I would imagine that the original art associated with that cover and interior pages would likely find a very small number of interested buyers.  Not only now, but even more so in the future.  I guess I misunderstood the definition of drek as I thought it referred to books that tended to be "worthless" due to some combination of story and/or art that just didn't stick with a larger part of the consumer base.  Not necessarily that the art itself is bad, but more...unmemorable.

 

7 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

My suggestion is that you stay away from the stuff you wish you could have if you could afford it because that's the thinking which can lead to a financial wreck. I don't buy things except from "play money".

Yeah, this is the problem at hand.  I could buy certain pieces, but the result would be me ending up in an ever increasing more difficult financial situation.  I have some level of control over my spending, but between continuing to collect comics, my desire to continue traveling domestically/internationally, along with spotting the occasional sculpture that might catch my attention, and some grail art pieces that I wish to someday own, it becomes a balancing act of "what's most important".  In the short term this means some slight disappointment at having to resign myself to the fact that I won't be getting one thing, but such is life...you don't get what you always want.  I just feel that my attention gets pulled in different places instead of focused on one thing or hobby (hence why I was curious if others collect other things or if they had to give them up in order to pursue OA).

 

8 hours ago, alxjhnsn said:

As for what I collect - air miles, comics, and comic art.

Yes!  I "collect" air miles/credit card points as well.  It's the only thing I collect that's guaranteed to yield me a positive return.  

Edited July 11, 2018 by ExNihilo

[alxjhnsn]

7 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

Yes!  I "collect" air miles/credit card points as well.  It's the only thing I collect that's guaranteed to yield me a positive return.  

Right there with you. 

2M miles on United and quite a few on AA. 

Since Feb, over 85K on United. 

OTOH, my wife, daughter, and I had a great long weekend in Charlotte for Heroescon thanks to “free” flights and rooms. 

 

#firstworldproblems

[alexgross.com]

i am not really an original art collector. i have just a few pieces, i'm mostly a comic collector. i have this frank miller page from the 4 issue wolverine limited series, this is from issue #4. as it doesn't have logan in it, i know it's not nearly as prized as other pages. how can i get a decent idea of the rough value of a piece like this? do you think CL or Heritage are good ways to sell original pages like this? any input would be appreciated. thanks-- 

[alxjhnsn]

Yes, I'd ask CL or Heritage to sell it though private placement is an option.

Here's my standard answer (as a spoiler because I post it often).

Spoiler

You might want to explore the following resources

• The website Comic Art Tracker can help you find art and look at current asking prices for similar pieces.
• The OA auction archive at Heritage Auctions – This archive presents the results from all of their OA auctions.. Once you sign-up and get an id, you can search for pieces by your artist and see what they have sold for.
• The CAF Market Data - More auction results (more than 1,000,000) are available if you join the Comic Art Fans site, pay for Market Data access, and access eBay and other auction sites as well as Heritage.
• The Comic Art Database. It contains transaction records entered by the owners of Comic OA.
• Dealer sites. Dealers, generally, post their art with fixed prices though there are exceptions. There is a list of dealers on CGC OA board and the Dragonberry site has a list as well. The CAF site will search the inventories of several dealers for you. [Of course, Comic Art Tracker is better.]
• Blouin Art Info which tracks sales at major art auctions. It can turn up some Comic OA as well. Look for the “Art Prices” item on the top right of the screen
• Jerry Weist's Comic Art Price Guide - Heritage published a third edition of it. In my opinion, it's a good history book and might be useful for comparison work, but it was out of date a year before it was printed.
• A topic  on the CGC OA boards, A-level panel page valuations by artist/run - thoughts/additions/changes?, holds a discussion that relates to your question. It provides some "generally agreed upon" ranges for popular runs by popular artists on popular characters.
• The Biggest OA Prices thread tracked some of the largest sales in the OA space. While that particular thread has stopped; it's probably worth reading for the discussions. Meanwhile , the information is still being updated - just with a different mechanism.
  • The price information moved to The OA Elite blog. Click on the categories on the top of the page to see the updated list.
  • The discussion moved to Biggest OA Prices: The Blog.

New buyers and sellers often find that OA is too hard to price. I agree that it is difficult. However, I think that there is a valid reason. Each piece is unique. Uniqueness make art sales generally and OA specifically non-linear.

Examples of how piece can differ in ways that impact pricing include:

• Content: Consecutive pages could and do sell for radically different amounts based on their content. 
• Page Layout: In general, you might say:
• Covers > 1st Page Splash > Other Splash > 1/2 splash > panel page
• However, that's not always true either. The right panel page can be much more compelling than a bland splash.
• Penciler vs. character: There are "A-list" artists, but not all of their books/characters have the same value. Kirby FF pages generally go for more than JIM/Thor pages which go for more than Cap pages (2nd run) which go for more than ...
• Pencilers/inkers combinations - Kirby/Sinnott FF pages rank above Kirby and anyone else on FF, but a Kirby/InkerX FF page might be more or less than a Kirby/Stone Thor page. Hard to tell.

Finally, you should join the comic book OA community. The three main points of Internet contact are:

•  Yahoo's comicart-l mailing list
• The Comic Art Fans website
• The CGC OA Board

The main points of physical contact are probably:

• San Diego Comic Con
• New York City Comic Con
• Heroes Comic Con - Not a lot of comic art dealers, but a huge number of artists who generally will draw and have portfolios to sell
• Comic Art Con - A twice yearly show in northern NJ within relatively easy reach of both NYC and Newark Airport
• NYC Comic Art Expo - only one so far, but more are promised; not thing but art people (dealers, individual sellers, and buyers) and a few local artists.

One last comment, if you are looking to buy or sell, spend the time to learn the market. That might take 6 months, but it's worth the time.

 

[John E.]

16 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

i am not really an original art collector. i have just a few pieces, i'm mostly a comic collector. i have this frank miller page from the 4 issue wolverine limited series, this is from issue #4. as it doesn't have logan in it, i know it's not nearly as prized as other pages. how can i get a decent idea of the rough value of a piece like this? do you think CL or Heritage are good ways to sell original pages like this? any input would be appreciated. thanks-- 

That is a cool piece. Pages from this series are always in demand. Since there's no Wolverine present, it does negatively affect the value though. I'd be surprised if this pages sold for less than $3k in auction. My guesstimate is $3,000-$4500, certainly not anywhere near $10,000.

ComicLink would be happy to take this off your hands and place it in their auction. Heritage won't take your stuff unless it's valued at least $5,000, so sending this by itself may not get you through the doors unless you have more art to put up on auction.

Also, as a disclaimer, it's hard to predict the value of individual pieces, even for the seasoned collector. Often times we're way off. So this thing could end at $2900 or $6,432.10. Thus, take these ballpark figures with a grain of salt.

[RCheli]

What is everyone's recommendation for online auction for their pieces among the different companies? Between Heritage, ComicLink, Comic Connect, Ebay and others, I just want to know if anyone has had good/bad experience selling (not buying). 

[John E.]

On 7/31/2018 at 11:09 AM, RCheli said:

What is everyone's recommendation for online auction for their pieces among the different companies? Between Heritage, ComicLink, Comic Connect, Ebay and others, I just want to know if anyone has had good/bad experience selling (not buying). 

I mostly sell on eBay and I’ve never had a problem with it or with a buyer. I think what helps is having lots of good photos and honest descriptions with full disclosures about any major damage or loose and missing stats, etc. Drawback to eBay is that you pay more in fees between eBay and PayPal and technically shipping  

When Heritage is set up at comic conventions, I’ve approached them about selling but they won’t taking anything from me unless I have at least $5k in art to hand over. 

I’ve not sold through Comic Link but would like to in the future. Only issue I see though is that some pieces go for much less than they would have on eBay. These are the smaller pieces not the high ticket ones.   

Most collectors tend to stay away from Comic Connect. 

[RCheli]

Thanks for the reply.

I have numerous pages of OA, but they're all 50s/60s romance art. Some are nice, but they are much more niche than superhero/sci-fi/action stuff that tends to sell well and quickly on eBay. I have some things that I suspect would sell better in Heritage than eBay, but I have no real facts to back that up. (Just middle-age-guy intuition.)

[Rick2you2]

On 8/2/2018 at 10:46 AM, Jay Olie Espy said:

I mostly sell on eBay and I’ve never had a problem with it or with a buyer. I think what helps is having lots of good photos and honest descriptions with full disclosures about any major damage or loose and missing stats, etc. Drawback to eBay is that you pay more in fees between eBay and PayPal and technically shipping  

When Heritage is set up at comic conventions, I’ve approached them about selling but they won’t taking anything from me unless I have at least $5k in art to hand over. 

I’ve not sold through Comic Link but would like to in the future. Only issue I see though is that some pieces go for much less than they would have on eBay. These are the smaller pieces not the high ticket ones.   

Most collectors tend to stay away from Comic Connect. 

I'm curious about why you wrote this about Comic Connect. While I think I have only bid on one thing it has posted over the years, that has to do with the offered selection more than anything else.  

[John E.]

5 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I'm curious about why you wrote this about Comic Connect. While I think I have only bid on one thing it has posted over the years, that has to do with the offered selection more than anything else.  

Not too long ago there was a thread on Comic Connect where Boardies vented their frustrations toward CC’s dated website which reflected my experience. My main frustration is fruitlessly trying to search for specific art. I don’t know if the site has improved since then because I don’t check it anymore. 

[Rick2you2]

4 hours ago, Jay Olie Espy said:

Not too long ago there was a thread on Comic Connect where Boardies vented their frustrations toward CC’s dated website which reflected my experience. My main frustration is fruitlessly trying to search for specific art. I don’t know if the site has improved since then because I don’t check it anymore. 

It makes for a hard search, and there is a lot of junk (at least for my collecting habits). I basically just go through the whole pile and see if anything catches my eye.

[PhilipB2k17]

On 7/26/2018 at 8:34 PM, www.alexgross.com said:

i am not really an original art collector. i have just a few pieces, i'm mostly a comic collector. i have this frank miller page from the 4 issue wolverine limited series, this is from issue #4. as it doesn't have logan in it, i know it's not nearly as prized as other pages. how can i get a decent idea of the rough value of a piece like this? do you think CL or Heritage are good ways to sell original pages like this? any input would be appreciated. thanks-- 

Yeah. Talking head panel pages from this series, which have minimal Wolverine, have recent auction sales of between $7-$8K

I think $3-4K is a fair estimate, but pages from this series are in high demand, don’t come up that often, and this has that classic Miller negative space look, with ninjas. So I could see it pushing $5k at auction. 

[alexgross.com]

6 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yeah. Talking head panel pages from this series, which have minimal Wolverine, have recent auction sales of between $7-$8K

I think $3-4K is a fair estimate, but pages from this series are in high demand, don’t come up that often, and this has that classic Miller negative space look, with ninjas. So I could see it pushing $5k at auction. 

thanks very much for this, and for your reply too jay. it's very helpful. i had no idea the page would potentially have so much value. it makes me want to hang into it more. 

[PhilipB2k17]

23 minutes ago, www.alexgross.com said:

thanks very much for this, and for your reply too jay. it's very helpful. i had no idea the page would potentially have so much value. it makes me want to hang into it more. 

It’s a minimum low to mid 4 figures page, for sure. Plus it’s a Frank freakin’ Miller page from the Wolverine mini. So, yeah, keep it. It’s great. 

[JadeGiant]

On 8/12/2018 at 6:13 PM, www.alexgross.com said:

thanks very much for this, and for your reply too jay. it's very helpful. i had no idea the page would potentially have so much value. it makes me want to hang into it more. 

Keeping the art for appreciation purposes sounds great to me!

That said, a key thing to remember for auction houses is the fees that are taken on your sale ... you wouldn't see $5k if that is where the item ended during the auction. FYI

[Siege Perilous]

Newbie question - when certain dealers websites have pieces listed as being “on hold” what exactly does that mean? Someone has offered to pay? Someone has partially paid? What if the status on the site never changes, is it fair game to inquire with the dealer?

[Mighty Hal]

37 minutes ago, ZimmermanTelegram said:

Newbie question - when certain dealers websites have pieces listed as being “on hold” what exactly does that mean? Someone has offered to pay? Someone has partially paid? What if the status on the site never changes, is it fair game to inquire with the dealer?

It usually means the dealer has accepted someone's offer on the piece, but the transaction hasn't yet been completed. I've inquired on a couple of pieces that were on hold "forever", only to have each dealer tell me that the art had been sold. 

 I don't see any harm in asking, though. You might be luckier than me.

[T Shen]

Apologies if this has been covered in the past, I didn’t think it was possible to catch up on posts from the last seven years

What is the etiquette for haggling on prices of OA at conventions/artist appearances? I know it should never hurt to ask, especially if done in a respectful manner, but if there are prices clearly labeled for a page, is it tacky to offer a lower amount? I obviously find it easier to do so if a piece is posted on the internet but just feel awkward when I’m face to face with the artist/seller. Anyone care to share their experience?

[malvin]

1 hour ago, T Shen said:

Apologies if this has been covered in the past, I didn’t think it was possible to catch up on posts from the last seven years

What is the etiquette for haggling on prices of OA at conventions/artist appearances? I know it should never hurt to ask, especially if done in a respectful manner, but if there are prices clearly labeled for a page, is it tacky to offer a lower amount? I obviously find it easier to do so if a piece is posted on the internet but just feel awkward when I’m face to face with the artist/seller. Anyone care to share their experience?

There are no rules.  Usually you gotta give something to get something, so I wouldn't make an offer if I was only buying 1 page.  I might try if I was buying 2 pages though.

Here is an obvious one that I am sure you know.  Don't haggle on a commission price before they draw it!

Malvin

[John E.]

On 11/3/2018 at 11:44 PM, T Shen said:

Apologies if this has been covered in the past, I didn’t think it was possible to catch up on posts from the last seven years

What is the etiquette for haggling on prices of OA at conventions/artist appearances? I know it should never hurt to ask, especially if done in a respectful manner, but if there are prices clearly labeled for a page, is it tacky to offer a lower amount? I obviously find it easier to do so if a piece is posted on the internet but just feel awkward when I’m face to face with the artist/seller. Anyone care to share their experience?

When I lived in California I was attending about 7-10 cons a year. Usually you see the same artists con after con with the same art in the portfolio. If that’s the case, I would offer about 80% of the sticker price. Remember, they aren’t eBay, so don’t lo-ball an artist. 

I remember an artist who i had built rapport with in the past by buying his comics off his table, paying him for sketches, chatting, had brought some fresh vintage art with him. I found a piece of art that I liked (unpublished, single figure, no background) that wasn’t priced, and I asked him how much he wanted. He closed his eyes, raised an eyebrow, did the uhhhhhh, and gave me a price of $225, a price that I balked at. I made a counter offer for $175 in cash, which may have still been too much, but he accepted it. The point is that I felt comfortable making a counteroffer because of previous rapport. He knew I was a fan and not a flipper.

There are artists who will voluntarily offer you discounts. I remember Bob Layton had a two sketch covers left over from a previous con that he offered my friend and me a 50% discount or something (this was also past the peak of the current con so all his buyers came and went already). Then there are those artists that just won’t budge. 

The important thing is that you need the ability to read a person. 

One last thing, if you’re the first to show up at an artist’s table and he or she has fresh pages from this month’s book and you see something you want for a few hundred dollars (it’s not a $5k cover) don’t haggle, don’t hem and haw, and just buy it. If you want it that bad, chances are someone else does too and willing to pay full price. Regret in this hobby is a B.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Jay Olie Espy
I realized I wrote that I attended 7-10 cons a month, instead of a year.