New to OA Collecting, Advice, tips? 9 9

[Andahaion]

Would anyone here offer to comment on Jim Lee's various Superman art?  I know what I like, but am relatively new on the OA circuit and would appreciate some context from a holistic perspective.  "For Tomorrow" seems to be regarded as one of his artistic high points, but "Unchained" is beautiful also and appears to have a lower entry point.  I suppose I'm trying to balance several factors that will guide my decision on which to pursue and it's helpful to hear different views (especially from veterans).  

Happy to take responses here, via PM, or over the phone if anyone is so inclined.  I'm a relatively nice person.  

[MagnusX]

On August 16, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Andahaion said:

Would anyone here offer to comment on Jim Lee's various Superman art?  I know what I like, but am relatively new on the OA circuit and would appreciate some context from a holistic perspective.  "For Tomorrow" seems to be regarded as one of his artistic high points, but "Unchained" is beautiful also and appears to have a lower entry point.  I suppose I'm trying to balance several factors that will guide my decision on which to pursue and it's helpful to hear different views (especially from veterans).

Happy to take responses here, via PM, or over the phone if anyone is so inclined.  I'm a relatively nice person.

I am not a fan of Jim Lee "For Tomorrow" or "Unchained"
but that is just because of the writers
the stories are both weak or bad,
the art is great, but without a solid (Story) foundation they are Mehhh at least...

There are pages here and there that are just Amazing;
but if you are looking for Great Superman / Jim Lee pages
go for: "Batman / Hush" or "Justice League"
All Star Batman is another place to look
Miller dialogue and Lee art it's a perfect combo...

[rocket1312]

On 8/16/2017 at 11:32 AM, Andahaion said:

Would anyone here offer to comment on Jim Lee's various Superman art?  I know what I like, but am relatively new on the OA circuit and would appreciate some context from a holistic perspective.  "For Tomorrow" seems to be regarded as one of his artistic high points, but "Unchained" is beautiful also and appears to have a lower entry point.  I suppose I'm trying to balance several factors that will guide my decision on which to pursue and it's helpful to hear different views (especially from veterans).  

Happy to take responses here, via PM, or over the phone if anyone is so inclined.  I'm a relatively nice person.  

For Tomorrow came right on the heels of Hush, during an era which I think a lot of fans (especially those who weren't around in the early 90's) consider to be "peak Lee."  He hadn't been doing regular art in a decade at that point and the buzz was off the charts.  Unchained is much more recent, obviously, and there's probably little nostalgia for it yet.  It's also a New 52 title, which for a lot of people means not the "real" Superman.  I don't think either story will stand the test of time the way Hush has, so the two may eventually blur together in terms of market value.  I think For Tomorrow will always remain slightly ahead though primarily because of the New 52 thing.

[Andahaion]

On 8/20/2017 at 3:38 PM, MagnusX said:

I am not a fan of Jim Lee "For Tomorrow" or "Unchained"
but that is just because of the writers
the stories are both weak or bad,
the art is great, but without a solid (Story) foundation they are Mehhh at least...

There are pages here and there that are just Amazing;
but if you are looking for Great Superman / Jim Lee pages
go for: "Batman / Hush" or "Justice League"
All Star Batman is another place to look
Miller dialogue and Lee art it's a perfect combo...

 

21 hours ago, rocket1312 said:

For Tomorrow came right on the heels of Hush, during an era which I think a lot of fans (especially those who weren't around in the early 90's) consider to be "peak Lee."  He hadn't been doing regular art in a decade at that point and the buzz was off the charts.  Unchained is much more recent, obviously, and there's probably little nostalgia for it yet.  It's also a New 52 title, which for a lot of people means not the "real" Superman.  I don't think either story will stand the test of time the way Hush has, so the two may eventually blur together in terms of market value.  I think For Tomorrow will always remain slightly ahead though primarily because of the New 52 thing.

Thank you both, appreciate the responses.  I'm going to continue to ramble on here, so feel free to poke holes in my thinking...

I re-read all three stories within the past month (Hush, For Tomorrow, and Unchained).  There are undoubtedly other factors involved, but it's  quite amazing to me how much impact the story has on each arc's OA value especially when I believe two of those stories, Hush and For Tomorrow, are very similar in quality of work (artistically).  

Using the OA community's general rule of what constitutes a more desirable page (ie, costumed action vs. talking heads, splashes vs. panels, etc) I could acquire a page from For Tomorrow for about half of a comparable (or even less) Hush page; and purchase Unchained for even less.  It's likely my own short-comings within the OA space, but this is something I'm having a difficult time absorbing/processing.  I suppose I should just look at the silver lining and feel good about potentially spending less on work that I feel is on par with Hush.  But the appeal of owning a Hush page is quite real and is hard to ignore, even for a Superman fan such as myself.

[rocket1312]

Beyond the generally accepted notion that Batman is currently more popular than Superman, you kind of have to just treat Hush as an outlier.  Whatever one thinks of the overall quality of Hush as a story, it is undoubtedly one of the three or four most popular 21st century big two runs.  It may even be number one.  Off the top of my head I can't really think of anything that would be ahead of it.  So yes, story absolutely does factor into OA valuations, but in the case of Hush, the effect is much greater than you might typically find elsewhere.

[JadeGiant]

On 8/23/2017 at 9:29 AM, Andahaion said:

 

Thank you both, appreciate the responses.  I'm going to continue to ramble on here, so feel free to poke holes in my thinking...

I re-read all three stories within the past month (Hush, For Tomorrow, and Unchained).  There are undoubtedly other factors involved, but it's  quite amazing to me how much impact the story has on each arc's OA value especially when I believe two of those stories, Hush and For Tomorrow, are very similar in quality of work (artistically).  

Using the OA community's general rule of what constitutes a more desirable page (ie, costumed action vs. talking heads, splashes vs. panels, etc) I could acquire a page from For Tomorrow for about half of a comparable (or even less) Hush page; and purchase Unchained for even less.  It's likely my own short-comings within the OA space, but this is something I'm having a difficult time absorbing/processing.  I suppose I should just look at the silver lining and feel good about potentially spending less on work that I feel is on par with Hush.  But the appeal of owning a Hush page is quite real and is hard to ignore, even for a Superman fan such as myself.

Just caught up on this thread, haven’t read much in a while. First off, welcome to the hobby. As maddening as it can be, it is the best I have found (I have collected something pretty much my entire life). A few things come to mind.

 

Friends – I think a vast majority of us do not have good friends that collect comic art that are in the same locale. The comic art community is small so the odds of lucking out in this way are slim. That’s the beauty of the internet however, it shrinks the hobby into your computer screen. I have made several friends that do not live close to me and it has all come from just talking art virtually. Do what you are doing here. Join forums/groups and be an active member of the community. It can take some time but you will make contacts which will become contacts and eventually some will become friends. One of my best friends is someone I met through the comic/art hobby and we found that we had a lot in common outside of art. We correspond almost daily on a host of topics. You will find yourself going to more shows to hang out with fellow collectors/friends and that’s where you will get that drink and some face to face discussion.

Dealers – this hobby is tough when it comes to breaking in with the dealers out there. Many of them aren’t high on the customer service aspect – probably from all the questions they have to answer (as mentioned) but also because being an art dealer doesn’t really require those skills to be in the game. If you have the art people want, you are half way there (a LOT more than half way actually, see C-lines as example). Coming in early to the hobby I imagine that many people see the dealers as their primary source for building their collection. My experience has been VERY different as my collection has been built almost solely via other sources (less than 5% of my collection comes from dealers). Learning the ropes of how to buy art well will eventually lead you to this conclusion IMO (or maybe not as I know some people that buy primarily from dealers). Networking and making friends will help you to find art much better than scanning dealer sites IMHO.

Buy a page – you have done MUCH more research than most people – bravo! Almost everyone does the opposite and jumps in too quickly and makes purchases they might later regret. I started buying pretty quickly but my approach was to limit my purchase’s price point to avoid buying big and having a major regret. This caused me to have a few minor regrets but nothing too bad and ultimately taught me to buy less pieces but at higher price points to get the art I want more for my collection. It’s all called paying tuition for your comic art education (not my term, I heard it from Felix) and we all do it so I would suggest not worrying about it too much. You have done your homework and  you don’t sound like an impulse buyer so I say dip your toe in the water and make a few purchases (maybe at lower levels) and see how your experience goes. You can only get so much of an understanding from analyzing; you’ll start up the learning curve more rapidly once you start acquiring art. It doesn’t even mean you have to spend new money as I know a lot of people that have liquidated other collectibles that aren’t as important to fund art purchases (I have yet to do this but plan to at some point).

 

Whatever you decide, good luck! (and feel free to ask me about art but my area of knowledge doesn’t line up with yours as I am a Hulk collector).

[Andahaion]

@JadeGiant  Appreciate the thoughtful response, thank you.  As luck would have it, I received a few personal notes from other boardies who read my previous posts where I expressed a bit of frustration.  One gentleman was kind enough to jump on the phone a few times to discuss OA (Twanj).  As you and others have pointed out, that is really the best way to learn.  And, I'm attending Baltimore Comic Con this year so will look forward to perhaps connecting with some folks.

Not sure if you saw my update in another thread but I have acquired my first piece.  It is a work by Jim Starlin from Death of the New Gods.  Starlin is a personal favorite of mine, but I've never read that book.  To your point, it wasn't very expensive (about $300 shipped) and it's in a new frame and up on the wall already.  I'm not looking to fill portfolios with $300 pages, but I might be in for one more smaller page as a learning experience.  I have toyed with posting a WTB ad here, and am starting to really believe that may be the best avenue to pursue additional purchases.  Obsessing over dealer sites and google searches gets one only so far (ie, further confused, ha).  

Here's another illustrative example of how little I know.  Maybe someone else would like to comment, or not, but it's interesting to me at any rate:

I found a Starlin cover (not trying to collect just Starlin, this is just happenstance) for sale on CLink for $2,900.  In my opinion it's a nice modern Starlin cover that he did as a variant to the Superman Unchained arc.  It is a nice big rendering of Supes and Mongul (a Starlin creation) engaged in fisticuffs.  At first glance, I thought to myself $2,900 is a good price.  Maybe even cheap.  I'm not 100% sure why I thought that, I think perhaps based off all the  interesting market info I've read about OA in the past 6 months or so.  

So, a google search for the cover revealed a thread from this board from February 2016 where that cover sold for $1,600 at auction.  And now the ask is $2,900...I'm not sure what that means other than I probably should wait to buy something like that.  That said, is it the market?  Did it sell low a year and a half ago?  Is what Felix purports on his podcast about buying high and selling higher needed to be applied here?  These aren't directed at you, just questions that entered into my mind.

I'm over-analyzing, sure, but for good cause.  And if I'm going to spend the kind of money I think I'm going to spend on comic book art I'd like to better understand the landscape.  Cheers.

[JadeGiant]

1 hour ago, Andahaion said:

@JadeGiant  Appreciate the thoughtful response, thank you.  As luck would have it, I received a few personal notes from other boardies who read my previous posts where I expressed a bit of frustration.  One gentleman was kind enough to jump on the phone a few times to discuss OA (Twanj).  As you and others have pointed out, that is really the best way to learn.  And, I'm attending Baltimore Comic Con this year so will look forward to perhaps connecting with some folks.

Not sure if you saw my update in another thread but I have acquired my first piece.  It is a work by Jim Starlin from Death of the New Gods.  Starlin is a personal favorite of mine, but I've never read that book.  To your point, it wasn't very expensive (about $300 shipped) and it's in a new frame and up on the wall already.  I'm not looking to fill portfolios with $300 pages, but I might be in for one more smaller page as a learning experience.  I have toyed with posting a WTB ad here, and am starting to really believe that may be the best avenue to pursue additional purchases.  Obsessing over dealer sites and google searches gets one only so far (ie, further confused, ha).  

Here's another illustrative example of how little I know.  Maybe someone else would like to comment, or not, but it's interesting to me at any rate:

I found a Starlin cover (not trying to collect just Starlin, this is just happenstance) for sale on CLink for $2,900.  In my opinion it's a nice modern Starlin cover that he did as a variant to the Superman Unchained arc.  It is a nice big rendering of Supes and Mongul (a Starlin creation) engaged in fisticuffs.  At first glance, I thought to myself $2,900 is a good price.  Maybe even cheap.  I'm not 100% sure why I thought that, I think perhaps based off all the  interesting market info I've read about OA in the past 6 months or so.  

So, a google search for the cover revealed a thread from this board from February 2016 where that cover sold for $1,600 at auction.  And now the ask is $2,900...I'm not sure what that means other than I probably should wait to buy something like that.  That said, is it the market?  Did it sell low a year and a half ago?  Is what Felix purports on his podcast about buying high and selling higher needed to be applied here?  These aren't directed at you, just questions that entered into my mind.

I'm over-analyzing, sure, but for good cause.  And if I'm going to spend the kind of money I think I'm going to spend on comic book art I'd like to better understand the landscape.  Cheers.

Congrats on your first purchase! Good call for going with a lower priced piece to get started.

 

Attending cons is a great way to meet other collectors and I highly suggest this to new collectors. It has paved the way for me as well and has added a tremendous amount of enjoyment in the hobby personally.

 

Regarding the Starlin cover, I am neither familiar with the cover or Starlin’s market, but a $1300 markup on a $1600 purchase seems a bit aggressive if it was picked up at auction. It could be a great buy and maybe worth nearly double but likely not. The seller might have hoped it was an auction that flew under the radar and might be able to turn a quick and tidy profit. If it has been listed for a while with no sale they probably have figured they guessed wrong and are likely willing to negotiate. Maybe not. Either way, it is worth opening a dialog with the seller if you are a serious buyer of the art. This is important as you don’t want to get into a negotiation if there isn’t a price that you WILL buy the art. Tire kicking is fine if you are interested but serious price negotiation should be reserved for the pieces that you are willing to write a check if the price aligns for you and the seller. He might be willing to sell at a more modest profit to get the money back out of the piece for another buy. You don’t know if you don’t ask.

[JadeGiant]

dupe

Edited September 5, 2017 by JadeGiant

[L.W.]

On 6/29/2017 at 8:55 AM, Pete Marino said:

You want a Wolverine page - easy

Wolverine in costume? 1/2 of above

Wolverine claws out - not hard, but only about 1/10 of above

Wolverine claws out by your favorite artist/run? (choose your flavor) 1/100 of above

Wolverine claws out by your favorite artist without a garbage panel or 2?  there might be only 5 that exist.

Wolverine cover I wanted - J. Lee, Wolverine 27 - $41, 825 (Heritage 2012)

Wolverine cover I got - S. Immonen, All New X-Men 16 variant - $2000+ (Fanfare Comic Art 2016)

Total saving = $39,000+

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by L.W.

[The Shoveler]

On 9/23/2017 at 2:38 AM, L.W. said:

Wolverine cover I wanted - J. Lee, Wolverine 27 - $41, 825 (Heritage 2012)

Wolverine cover I got - S. Immonen, All New X-Men 16 variant - $2000+ (Fanfare Comic Art 2016)

Total saving = $39,000+

 

 

 

Cool Immonen cover!

 

[L.W.]

On 9/25/2017 at 9:06 PM, The Shoveler said:

Cool Immonen cover!

 

Its truly is an amazing cover. Wade Von Grawbadger did a great job inking Immonen's pencil. 

here is a detail photo along with my other Immonen's companion  splash page from All New X-Men issue 9 page 17 which appear to be the Marvel Zombies, but in the story, its an illusion.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by L.W.

[The Shoveler]

On 9/27/2017 at 7:47 PM, L.W. said:

...along with my other Immonen's companion  splash page from All New X-Men issue 9 page 17...

Already spending that $39K you saved, eh?

And I agree with you on WVG.  He does some good inks...makes for a really good team with Immonen.

[Ducky13]

I am not new the boards nor collecting OA, but I do have a question. 

What are the types of original art most people are looking for?

My wife would like to buy me OA for Christmas, and I have small collection that already includes:

an original cover,

double page splash,

double page spread,

full page splash,

pencil only page,

inks over blue line page,

2 pages on one board page,

an overlay page,

a commissioned page,

A recreation page (cover)

a preliminary art page,

a twice up page ( I believe)

a bronze, copper and modern pages

and an end page.

I also have pages with paste ups and inked word balloons. I have OA from my favorite artist (Gary Frank) and with my favorite character (Iron Fist). I also have a convention sketch book. 

 

On my list to get is a title page splash, a silver and possibly a golden age page

Are there any other types of pages I am missing? 

Thanks in advance for your suggestions. I do have a list of artists I am looking for but would like to address page types at this time. 

 

My CAF page:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=90870

[Mycroft]

What about a title page  ?

My own humble example

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=827038

[Ducky13]

Thats one of the few I know I need, a title page , yours is fantastic, I love that it credits Peter David (favorite writer). 

[John E.]

2 hours ago, Ducky13 said:

Thats one of the few I know I need, a title page , yours is fantastic, I love that it credits Peter David (favorite writer). 

Sure there's no action or costumes, but there's a talking gopher wearing nothing but a tie and that more than makes up for it.

@Ducky13 You are also missing a back cover. They are more affordable than a front cover, but harder to find. Here's my example

[Ducky13]

See, learn something new every day! I didn't know back covers were a thing. Maybe because I always see ads on the back. I am aware of wrap around covers and connecting covers like tryptich covers but would think those get kinda pricey.

[MGsimba77]

Anyone know if there is a slabbed copy of the last page of ASM #299 for sale where venom makes first appearance?

[Skizz]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

Anyone know if there is a slabbed copy of the last page of ASM #299 for sale where venom makes first appearance?

Are you asking about the cgc graded comic or the original page of art?