Ninja Turtles - Differences Between Printings?
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There's a third print with the printing indicia bleached out being sold on ebay as a counterfeit:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261511633251

 

I already contacted the seller with the message below. We'll see what he says.

 

"Hi. This isn't actually a countefeit of a first print. It's a third print with the printing indicia bleached out. 1st print counterfeits still retain the Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover, the Dover NH address notation on the inside front cover, and the blood on the second "T" in the logo is consistent with third prints."

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Reported.

 

This is one of two scenarios

 

Either the seller took a 3rd print, bleached it out and is trying to pass it off as a "counterfeit" trying to cash in on collectors looking for old counterfeits that are somewhat common with this issue. Keep in mind the book in the listing doesn't match the description of known counterfeits that were printed years ago.

 

or

 

The seller bought the book from a shady seller who advertised it as a "counterfeit", basically scamming the current seller and the seller is now trying to sell without knowledge that he's been scammed.

 

Either way, the listing is misleading and should at the very least be edited.

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He never responded to my email but he did drop the price from $2500 to $750.

 

I've discussed deals with the seller before (with myself both as buyer and seller). We never came to agreement on terms. From seeing his history as a flipper I have an opinion on which of Adam's scenarios this falls under. I won't say which but you can probably guess.

 

Amendment: I do not think the seller bleached out the wording himself or was scammed by someone else. My opinion is that he bought a third print with the wording bleached out and is passing it off as a counterfeit.

Edited by Ryan.

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They should make a movie out of this thread.

 

 

Edited by TXReplicant

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:bump:

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How can you tell 1st print from 2nd and 3rd on issue 2, 3, and 4...i think 1st and 2nd prints have the same cover as well.

 

 

 

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3rd print #2, 2nd print #3, and 2nd print #4 are all standard sized comic books (as opposed to magazine sized for the earlier printings) and all feature different artwork. Corben did the cover for #2, Laird & Lawson did the cover for #3, and Dooney did the cover for #4.

 

The only question is the 2nd print #2. The inside cover will tell you what printing it is, but it looks very similar to the 1st printing if you don't open the book. Some people talk about the lower left corner being different, but I don't know how reliable that is.

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So, whatever become of this $22K 9.8 Pedigree that's actually a 3rd printing? Did the buyer get refunded? Does the buyer even know?

 

In 2014 Maloney414 posted this:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7570617#Post7570617

 

CGC made the Pedigree buyer whole by getting a legit copy. It reappeared on Comiclink in 2013 and was pulled. No idea where the book is now.

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So, whatever become of this $22K 9.8 Pedigree that's actually a 3rd printing? Did the buyer get refunded? Does the buyer even know?

 

In 2014 Maloney414 posted this:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7570617#Post7570617

 

CGC made the Pedigree buyer whole by getting a legit copy. It reappeared on Comiclink in 2013 and was pulled. No idea where the book is now.

 

raiderslastscene_zpslpfhaayb.jpg

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So, whatever become of this $22K 9.8 Pedigree that's actually a 3rd printing? Did the buyer get refunded? Does the buyer even know?

 

In 2014 Maloney414 posted this:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7570617#Post7570617

 

CGC made the Pedigree buyer whole by getting a legit copy. It reappeared on Comiclink in 2013 and was pulled. No idea where the book is now.

 

raiderslastscene_zpslpfhaayb.jpg

 

I think there is a JIM 83 6.5 in there somewhere too... :whistle:

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So, whatever become of this $22K 9.8 Pedigree that's actually a 3rd printing? Did the buyer get refunded? Does the buyer even know?

 

In 2014 Maloney414 posted this:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7570617#Post7570617

 

CGC made the Pedigree buyer whole by getting a legit copy. It reappeared on Comiclink in 2013 and was pulled. No idea where the book is now.

 

raiderslastscene_zpslpfhaayb.jpg

 

I think there is a JIM 83 6.5 in there somewhere too... :whistle:

 

I don't see anything? (shrug)

 

raidersla_zpswbvlgk38.jpg

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Thank you @jaybuck43 !! :) Appreciate the update...I missed it on that other thread.

 

@Hulksdaddy1, a great reference. ;)

 

So, did it ever get cracked open so we could see for sure what the insides were like?

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On 8/12/2013 at 1:15 PM, maloney414 said:

 

+1

 

Great thread for TMNT #1 buyers! (thumbs u

 

Here is some of the info:

 

 

 

1st Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for Gobbledygook

- Address inside of front cover is Dover NH

- No extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Doesn’t say 1st, 2nd or 3rd printing inside front cover

 

 

2nd Printing:

 

- Cover is red

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Tiny black dot above right corner of building above Raphael (picture below)

- Says 2nd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Dover NH

- gap in the 2 page splash image along the spine.

 

Black dot above Raphael:

1_zps0ff862bc.jpg

 

Gap on splash page:

TMNTsplash_zpsc35e9d11.jpg

 

3rd Printing:

 

- Cover is pinkish

- Ad inside back cover is for t-shirts

- Extra blood in 2nd “T” in turtles on cover (picture below)

- Book was colored/grey tones/shaded darker (see Raphael page below)

- No black dot above building above Raphael

- Says 3rd printing inside front cover

- Address inside front cover is Sharon, CT

 

Extra blood in 2nd "T"

T_zps10b5e808.jpg

 

 

Width measurement ranges:

1st print - 7 1/2" to 7 9/16"

 

2nd print - 7 9/16" to 7 3/4"

 

3rd print - 7 3/8"

 

 

Counterfeit Copies:

 

The first thing to check are the details mentioned above. For example, if someone takes a 2nd print and bleaches the inside to remove the "2nd Printing" the book will still have the "dot on the cover" and the T-Shirt Ad on the inside back cover. Those would be red flags to check. (thumbs u

 

Another thing I've seen done is people take a 3rd printing and photoshop a 1st print cover to print. Then wrap the fake 1st print cover around a 3rd print book. We spotted one here on the boards recently.

 

However, a 3rd print is slightly smaller, so they had to trim their 1st print fake cover to fit the 3rd print interior. The Gobbledygook ad and indicia were cut wrong.

 

Indicia shouldn't be cut off at the bottom this way:

TMNTindicia_zps5a78769d.jpg

 

The right corner of the Gobbledygook #2 shouldn't be cut off either:

TMNTGobbl_zps43aca9c2.jpg

 

However, the owner thought it might have just been "trimmed" but when I asked him about the grey tones/shading it became obvious it was a completely fake cover wrapped around a 3rd print interior.

 

Here is the difference in colors/grey tones. The easiest page to see the difference is the Raphael splash page. 1st/2nd print on the left, 3rd print on the right:

IMG_1535.jpg

 

Another famous Counterfeit is the "White Stripe" counterfeit. There were a lot of these made so the quality of the books is much sharper and well done. The "tells" for those is the blood is off on the "S" in turtles creating a horizontal "white stripe" and there is a "white stripe" down the right side of the image. Apparently, during the creation of the cover, the red printing was slightly off creating the gaps.

 

CounterfeitReddoesntlineupwithblackonrightsideWhitestripe.jpg

 

If anybody else knows more details about the differences or specific counterfeits they've seen, please share!! I think it's great to share this info so other boardie's buying TMNT #1's can make informed decisions. (thumbs u

 

I recently did a lot of comparisons between the first three printings of TMNT #1 in an effort to establish the provenance of The TMNT #1 Production Negatives.  All the facts from this thread hold true when trying to distinguish between a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd printing of TMNT #1, much of which is compiled above by @maloney414).  I wanted to update here to provide one more way to distinguish between the first three printings (although it requires access to - or images of - the internal pages of the books).

During my research, I identified Page 29 as being THE critical page that establishes the provenance of the negatives.  However, the bottom of Page 29 also can be used to distinguish between the three printings due to an anomaly I found that exists only in the 2nd printing - an imperfection in the middle of the Foot Soldier's back.  While I only had access to two copies of a 2nd printing, this printing anomaly existed in both copies and I'm betting it exists in all copies.  When you couple the printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back along with the missing line just to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand, this could easily identify a 2nd or 3rd printing trying to be passed off as a 1st printing.  Here's a summary of how to spot this:

  • 1st printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand
  • 2nd printing Page 29 - printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand
  • 3rd printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; NO missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand

Although many copies of these three printings are slabbed and the internal pages inaccessible, I still thought it might be useful information for anyone that does have access to the internal pages.  Just one more method that can be used for authentication.  Of course, if anyone has (or finds) a 2nd printing that does NOT have this printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back, then that would render this method of identification somewhat useless.  Definitely ping me if Page 29 of any copy (of any printing) of TMNT #1 is ever found to deviate from what I've documented here.  

TMNT-01-Page-29_1st-2nd-3rd-comparison_b

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20 hours ago, rich_TMNT said:

I recently did a lot of comparisons between the first three printings of TMNT #1 in an effort to establish the provenance of The TMNT #1 Production Negatives.  All the facts from this thread hold true when trying to distinguish between a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd printing of TMNT #1, much of which is compiled above by @maloney414).  I wanted to update here to provide one more way to distinguish between the first three printings (although it requires access to - or images of - the internal pages of the books).

During my research, I identified Page 29 as being THE critical page that establishes the provenance of the negatives.  However, the bottom of Page 29 also can be used to distinguish between the three printings due to an anomaly I found that exists only in the 2nd printing - an imperfection in the middle of the Foot Soldier's back.  While I only had access to two copies of a 2nd printing, this printing anomaly existed in both copies and I'm betting it exists in all copies.  When you couple the printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back along with the missing line just to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand, this could easily identify a 2nd or 3rd printing trying to be passed off as a 1st printing.  Here's a summary of how to spot this:

  • 1st printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand
  • 2nd printing Page 29 - printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand
  • 3rd printing Page 29 - NO printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back; NO missing line to the right of the Foot Soldier's hand

Although many copies of these three printings are slabbed and the internal pages inaccessible, I still thought it might be useful information for anyone that does have access to the internal pages.  Just one more method that can be used for authentication.  Of course, if anyone has (or finds) a 2nd printing that does NOT have this printing anomaly on the Foot Soldier's back, then that would render this method of identification somewhat useless.  Definitely ping me if Page 29 of any copy (of any printing) of TMNT #1 is ever found to deviate from what I've documented here.  

TMNT-01-Page-29_1st-2nd-3rd-comparison_b

This is my 2nd print. There is no printing artifact. :sorry:

92560855-119F-4033-BA91-3BAF156DC45A.jpeg

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2 hours ago, Stronguy said:

This is my 2nd print. There is no printing artifact. :sorry:

92560855-119F-4033-BA91-3BAF156DC45A.jpeg

@Stronguy Thanks for providing the image of that page from your 2nd printing.  This is definitely an interesting development.  On the one hand, the 2nd printing Page 29 anomaly is now something that can't be used with certainty to identify the printings but since it obviously exists in some copies of the 2nd printing, it still could be an indicator a person could look for (just not a definitive thing).  On the other hand, this anomaly being present in only some of the 2nd printing books is a clear indication that this was a printing anomaly caused by the press blanket and nothing present on the printing plate.  

The existence of your 2nd printing without the anomaly also validates my statement (below) from Part 19 of my TMNT Production Negatives series...

"Since the 1st & 3rd printings don’t have these flaws (nor does the negative), the situation with Page 29 is nearly identical to that seen on Page 38 – a printing error caused by either the printing plate or the press blanket.  Pretty much everything documented in Part 18 for the error on Page 38 holds true for Page 29.  Either ALL copies of TMNT #1 2nd printing have this error at the bottom of Page 29 or only SOME copies have it; still just one way to find out."

PM me if you'd be willing to provide me full page images from your 2nd printing of the following pages: 02, 03, 18, 22, 29 (full page), 33, 35, 37, 38.  Also, if you have access to a raw 1st printing, I'd be very interested in seeing images of the same pages from that book.

Again, thanks for posting this.  :smile:

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