Was Showcase 4 the best selling superhero title for the month of September 1956?

[bronze johnny]

Are there circulation numbers for DC Comics distributed and sold for the month of September 1956? If so, then did Showcase 4 outsell each of the following books during the month?

 

Action 220

Tec 235

Batman 102

Jimmy Olsen 15

Superman 108

Superboy 51

World's Finest 84

 

Thanks,

 

John

[roulette44]

great question man, i'd love to see the data on this if anyone has!

[bronze johnny]

Great books you have there!

[tth2]

No idea, but I`d say it`s highly doubtful that it outsold the Superman and Batman titles. Even when the so-called Marvel Revolution was in full swing, Marvel wasn`t outselling the Superman and Batman titles.

[Tony S]

The publishers statements of ownership did not start listing circulaton numbers until 1960. So short of finding someone that worked for DC back then that thinks they remember, it will remain just an interesting question.

 

As another person remarked though - it is extremely unlikely. Superman in the mid 60's was selling was selling something in the range of 700,000 copies a month. Superboy sold nearly that number. Unless Superman and Batman numbers were horrible 10 years earlier it's unlikely Showcase 4 passed their numbers.

[rodan57]

Just some interesting numbers from 1966, the first year ASM began publishing a Statement of Ownership.

 

These are the best selling title for each publisher (annual monthly average).

 

Batman

DC 898,470

 

Archie

Archie 491,691

 

Treasure Chest

Catholic Guild 348,305

 

Walt Disney's Comics & Stories

Gold Key 346,250

 

Amazing Spider-Man

Marvel 340,155

 

Unknown Worlds

ACG 162,684

 

Teen-Age Love

Charlton 148,813

 

And for comparison, Mad Magazinge EC 1,635,612

 

Source The Comic Chronicles

 

 

 

[roulette44]

Great books you have there!

 

Thank you! Just picked up copies of TOS39 and TTA27 which shall soon join the sig line!

[bronze johnny]

If the Superman books were doing well in 1956 then I'm wondering whether Showcase 9 (7-8/1957) might have been the "breakout" Showcase book and the most significant early DC Silver Age book. What further supports my curiosity is the fact that Lois Lane was awarded the first ongoing series (3/1958) - before the Flash as we all know.

 

Granted DC brought the Flash back a few more times in Showcase but they also brought the Challengers of the Unknown back too.

 

Now my question is:

 

If Lois Lane were a bigger hit than Flash (and I personally love the Flash) and sales went up with Lois Lane's Showcase book leading to her own series approximately 5 months after Showcase 10 in March 1958, then how big of an impact did Showcase 4 really have relative to that of Showcase 9?

 

It appears that DC continued to "work" on Flash and Challengers of the Unknown for a slightly longer period of time. Challengers of the Unknown would be the next book to come out of the Showcase series and start its own run in April of 1958- nearly 8 months before the Flash gets his in Flash 105. That's approximately a full year after Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane 1. Why did the Challengers of the Unknown get there own book before the Flash?

 

Did Lois Lane have a bigger impact on the early Silver Age of DC than the Flash?

 

If she did, it might have been so with the help of the Man of Steel- which raises another question:

 

Did Superman have more of an influence on the beginnings of the Silver Age as perhaps demonstrated through the popularity of Lois Lane's book, which was really another Superman book?

 

Should the beginnings of the Silver Age of DC Comics also be defined, in addition to the re-introduction of the Superhero (Flash) and the introduction of DC's first original concept and hero team (Challengers of the Unknown), the Second Great Age of the Man of Steel?

 

Was Showcase 9 and even Showcase 6 more important books at that time than Showcase 4?

 

If it was the comic book company business practice in the mid to late 1950s to award an ongoing series to the more popular and better selling comic book characters as demonstrated in the "try out books" and the sales reaction to those books, then It appears that DC thought so.

 

I know I'm presenting several questions here but the early Silver Age of DC was a fascinating period in the history of comics.

 

John

 

[tth2]

If the Superman books were doing well in 1956 then I'm wondering whether Showcase 9 (7-8/1957) might have been the "breakout" Showcase book and the most significant early DC Silver Age book. What further supports my curiosity is the fact that Lois Lane was awarded the first ongoing series (3/1958) - before the Flash as we all know.

 

Granted DC brought the Flash back a few more times in Showcase but they also brought the Challengers of the Unknown back too.

 

Now my question is:

 

If Lois Lane were a bigger hit than Flash (and I personally love the Flash) and sales went up with Lois Lane's Showcase book leading to her own series approximately 5 months after Showcase 10 in March 1958, then how big of an impact did Showcase 4 really have relative to that of Showcase 9?

 

It appears that DC continued to "work" on Flash and Challengers of the Unknown for a slightly longer period of time. Challengers of the Unknown would be the next book to come out of the Showcase series and start its own run in April of 1958- nearly 8 months before the Flash gets his in Flash 105. That's approximately a full year after Superman's Girlfriend, Lois Lane 1. Why did the Challengers of the Unknown get there own book before the Flash?

 

Did Lois Lane have a bigger impact on the early Silver Age of DC than the Flash?

 

If she did, it might have been so with the help of the Man of Steel- which raises another question:

 

Did Superman have more of an influence on the beginnings of the Silver Age as perhaps demonstrated through the popularity of Lois Lane's book, which was really another Superman book?

 

Should the beginnings of the Silver Age of DC Comics also be defined, in addition to the re-introduction of the Superhero (Flash) and the introduction of DC's first original concept and hero team (Challengers of the Unknown), the Second Great Age of the Man of Steel?

 

Was Showcase 9 and even Showcase 6 more important books at that time than Showcase 4?

 

If it was the comic book company business practice in the mid to late 1950s to award an ongoing series to the more popular and better selling comic book characters as demonstrated in the "try out books" and the sales reaction to those books, then It appears that DC thought so.

 

I know I'm presenting several questions here but the early Silver Age of DC was a fascinating period in the history of comics.

 

John

No.

 

Lois Lane getting her own title was just an extension of the already very successful Superman family of titles, which along with the Batman and Wonder Woman titles were the only superhero titles to survive the death of the Golden Age. It wasn`t viewed as revolutionary in any way.

 

I don`t think anyone has ever thought that Showcase 4, or any of the subsequent new SA DC superhero appearances or titles, surpassed the core DC superhero titles in sales. But they apparently showed enough commercial success that they gave DC an opportunity to try expanding its portfolio of superhero titles again.

[bronze johnny]

Yes,

 

I did say Lois Lane was just another Superman book and I never suggested Showcase 4 or any of the new titles surpassed the core titles. My initial question in the title of this thread is more about Showcase 4 and how its been historically defined.

 

- I'm looking at whether Showcase 4 had more of an influence on the "commercial success" of the early DC SA books than did Showcase 9 and/or Showcase 6. And yes, I think we can agree that the Supes, Bats, and Wonder Woman books not only survived the "10 Cent Plague" of the early 1950s but were also doing well in the period immediately leading up to the start of the DC SA.

 

- My questions are focused on the first several years of the DC SA and what degree of impact Showcase 4 had relative to the other Showcase titles.

 

- Showcase 9 (another Supe's book) probably got her own book since the existing Superman books sold very well. As far as "revolutionary?" The "Second Great Age of Superman" is a suggestion I make for providing another defining "characteristic" of the early DC SA since the beginning of this period had always been defined "the re-introduction of the superhero with the return of the Flash in Showcase 4." Showcase 4 has historically been viewed as a "revolutionary book- the book that starts the SA of DC Comics." The success of Lois Lane's book might provide insight into just how popular Superman was in the early years of the DC SA and whether Superman made a contribution to initiating this period.

 

- The success and popularity of the Challengers of the Unknown during this period might also be underscored- their getting their own book before the Flash has significance and I've expressed an interest in trying to determine what it is and whether Showcase 6 is the first SA book.

 

John

 

 

 

[Tony S]

Yes,

 

I did say Lois Lane was just another Superman book and I never suggested Showcase 4 or any of the new titles surpassed the core titles. My initial question in the title of this thread is more about Showcase 4 and how its been historically defined.

 

- I'm looking at whether Showcase 4 had more of an influence on the "commercial success" of the early DC SA books than did Showcase 9 and/or Showcase 6. And yes, I think we can agree that the Supes, Bats, and Wonder Woman books not only survived the "10 Cent Plague" of the early 1950s but were also doing well in the period immediately leading up to the start of the DC SA.

 

- My questions are focused on the first several years of the DC SA and what degree of impact Showcase 4 had relative to the other Showcase titles.

 

- Showcase 9 (another Supe's book) probably got her own book since the existing Superman books sold very well. As far as "revolutionary?" The "Second Great Age of Superman" is a suggestion I make for providing another defining "characteristic" of the early DC SA since the beginning of this period had always been defined "the re-introduction of the superhero with the return of the Flash in Showcase 4." Showcase 4 has historically been viewed as a "revolutionary book- the book that starts the SA of DC Comics." The success of Lois Lane's book might provide insight into just how popular Superman was in the early years of the DC SA and whether Superman made a contribution to initiating this period.

 

- The success and popularity of the Challengers of the Unknown during this period might also be underscored- their getting their own book before the Flash has significance and I've expressed an interest in trying to determine what it is and whether Showcase 6 is the first SA book.

 

John

 

 

 

My guess is somewhere there is a thread on when was the beginning of the Silver Age. I've participated in debates - sometimes heated - about when the SA began (not on this forum). I should mention as way of spoiler I've never shared the consensus that emerged.

 

Collectors should realize that the first Overstreet Price Guide came out in 1970. Collectors around in 1970 didn't realize that the "Silver Age" had ended - or was going to end in a few months. The term Silver Age was not even commonly used. If used at all. Much more common were the terms "1st and 2nd Heroic Age". At that time - in 1970 and for at least another decade if not longer, collectors dated the 2nd Heroic Age as starting with Flash 105. The early Showcases, Lois Lane and Challengers were viewed as sort of prequels. They lead up to the explosion of new superhero titles - but did not start them.

 

The problem with dating the SA with Showcase 4 is it becomes logical to ask about Detective 225 (1st Martian Manhunter) or Atlas' attempted but short lived revival of the timely heroes with Young Men 25 - both of which predate Showcase 4.

 

The arguement goes that it is hard to pin an "age" on a single book or event. New superhero books were something that just slowly gathered steam until around 1959 when things started taking off. Then Marvel entered in 1961 and history was made.

 

The other thing I've disliked greatly about naming "ages" after precious metals is now we are at the point where it was either the Lead Age or Tin Age or call it modern. Thank God the herd decided on Modern. I think we should have left it as 1st and 2nd Heroic ages and Flash 105 as the big pop for the 2nd Heroic age. Atomic Age was a popular term for the 50's - a time period when super hero titles thinned out and publishers ran lots of sci-fi & monsters stories.

 

And of course ultimately the problem with any "ages" whatsoever is that they aren't inclusive enough. Funny animal books - especially Disney's and WB- sold extemely well from the 40's through the 60's. So to did Romance, Western and Crime have periods where they turned big numbers. But the naming of ages fails to fully recognize their influence.

 

A long winded rant on my part where I'm more or less agreeing with you about the relative importance of Showcase 4. I think less than is commonly believed. The marketplace seems to have adopted this philosophy to some degree as well. Amazing Fantasy 15 has easily outpaced Showcase 4 in value. Because looking back, AF 15 was the true game changer - then beginning of an era...

[bronze johnny]

Thanks for the insight. It's not a "long winded rant" but a perspective that is well stated and I'm well aware of your knowledge of the history of comics and I have tremendous respect for your views (I always look forward to reading your market reports in the OSPG!).

 

- There are collectors who still define Tec 225 as the first Silver Age book.

 

- The fact that Showcase 4 may have probably had a lesser impact on sales than Showcase 9 and/or Showcase 6 (due to the latter 2 books getting their own series before the Flash leads further to the belief that the Flash might have picked up interest among DC comic book readers/collectors with the later Flash appearances in Showcase.

 

- I agree with your assessment on the limitations presented by "ages"- some collectors that I've spoken to place the beginnings of the second great age of mystery and horror in the Bronze Age but DC's House of Mystery 174 came out before Green Lantern 76.

 

Thanks again,

 

John

[rjpb]

The Challengers getting their own book first may well indicate they outsold the Flash when appearing in Showcase, but that hardly makes them more important to the era.

 

Showcase 4 will probably always be thought of by most as the first SA book, because DC was clearly signaling that the first heroic age was over when they gave a new alter ego and costume to a character with the same power and name as one who had last been seen four and a half years earlier.

 

That won't seem like much time to today's readers, but back then readership turned over frequently enough and back issue collecting was unusual enough that DC felt that the Flash along with most of the rest of the pantheon of GA heroes would be largely forgotten. Five years later Marvel would reintroduce the Human Torch with no initial acknowledgment that a different Torch had been starring in his own comic just six years earlier.

 

Martian Manhunter was an alien detective backup feature, the Challengers a non-superpowered group of adventurers, and Lois Lane a long standing Superman supporting cast member, no more the harbingers of a new era than Congo Bill or Captain Comet, but the appearance of the new Flash heralded an era where DC and later Marvel would reinvent their stable of heroes for a new generation of comic fan. That's what makes his appearance in Showcase 4 the beginning of the Silver Age.

 

 

[Boba]

Well stated

[burntboy]

Well stated

 

+1 it's Showcase 4 dammit...

[bronze johnny]

Yes, well stated.

 

I respectfully differ on some points:

 

- I think calling the Challengers a harbinger underscores a significant contribution Kirby gave to the SA and DC - the first original creation of characters that were new and different. And the "new and different approach" taken by DC with Challengers and the subsequent new creations induced the revolutionary changes that would take place later on- a greater influence on change than the re-introduction of characters that failed and were viewed in the recent collective memory (for I disagree with you that readers forgot them quickly) of readers during that period as failures. Could a rehash of failed characters induce the great changes brought by the SA more so than the introduction of new characters? From the Challengers to the Fantastic Four?

 

I'll go a step further here and ask whether this was Kirby's "challenge" to that comic book world that was ruled by the Comics Code? A challenge that Atlas failed when it attempted to re-introduce Cap, Torch, and the Sub-Mariner.

 

 

- What you say about "DC's recognition that the "first heroic age was over" is a another way of saying a "superhero revival." A revival during a period where DC was successful in publishing Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, World's Finest, Adventure, Action, Detective, and Batman without interruption?

 

And Showcase 9 is a "reminder" of just how successful the above books must have been since Lois is the first to get "her own book," or rather Superman's ability to get another book.

 

- Showcase 4 is a key SA DC book and the Flash is a key SA DC character. To what degree is the question I've raised.

 

Thanks for your input and contributing to this thread.

 

While we may disagree on points, I respect your position.

 

John

 

 

[adamstrange]

There isn't a bright line delineating the start and end of any age. Even if you agree that GA starts with Action 1, that doesn't mean that all books from all publishers changed that same month. Nor is their agreement on when the GA ended and whether there is such a thing as an Atomic Age.

 

In order for a comic to start an age it has to inspire and have a noticeable success. This excludes Tec 225. There's no evidence I'm aware of a creator being contemporaneously inspired by Martian Manhunter, much less comic fans declaring him "favorite hero" or handing out awards to the creative team. Nor was it very successful judging by the fact that it received top billing on a comic starting only in June 1964. He didn't make a cover appearance until B&B 28.

 

Challengers wasn't a superhero team but Kirby's version of the adventure stories like DC had in My Greatest Adv and Tales of the Unexpected. I suspect that was the reason it got the green light for a solo title, just like FF 1 was probably approved because it superficially looked like Marvel's perhero monster book more than a superhero book. Challengers had no super-powers, special costume, alter-egos, hidden identities etc. that were hallmarks of the super-hero revival. In addition it was a team book when the majority of the coming wave of super-heros/heroic characters were solo actors.

 

It's not significant that Flash waited a couple years to get his own title. Superman's second cover appearance was Action 7, his third Action 10. Basically, DC had burned out on publishing anything but Supe, Bats, and WW and only the finalizing of the sales results induced them to run a second and a third trial. Results came in 3 months following the distribution date after which the decision was made to do any Flash story -- which would have taken a month. That's why there's at least a 4 month gap between the first 3 appearances of Flash.

 

Flash was a re-interpretation of the original GA Flash with a science fiction twist. That was the pattern for GL, Atom, Hawkman etc. B&B 28 was the natural evolution of the All Star/ Justice Society concept for the new heroes. Even the Marvel hero origins were science fiction based, though with the Kirby/Lee/Ditko spin loved by Marvel zombies and others. The creators and fans all noticed the difference in super-heros before Flash and after Flash, and gave awards to Schwartz/Infantino/Anderson. There were superheros created/revived throughout the 50s but the one that "stuck" was the Flash.

[Tony S]

The Challengers getting their own book first may well indicate they outsold the Flash when appearing in Showcase, but that hardly makes them more important to the era.

 

Showcase 4 will probably always be thought of by most as the first SA book, because DC was clearly signaling that the first heroic age was over when they gave a new alter ego and costume to a character with the same power and name as one who had last been seen four and a half years earlier.

 

That won't seem like much time to today's readers, but back then readership turned over frequently enough and back issue collecting was unusual enough that DC felt that the Flash along with most of the rest of the pantheon of GA heroes would be largely forgotten. Five years later Marvel would reintroduce the Human Torch with no initial acknowledgment that a different Torch had been starring in his own comic just six years earlier.

 

Martian Manhunter was an alien detective backup feature, the Challengers a non-superpowered group of adventurers, and Lois Lane a long standing Superman supporting cast member, no more the harbingers of a new era than Congo Bill or Captain Comet, but the appearance of the new Flash heralded an era where DC and later Marvel would reinvent their stable of heroes for a new generation of comic fan. That's what makes his appearance in Showcase 4 the beginning of the Silver Age.

 

 

Well stated - and I'll admitt I enjoy this subject as a debate. But let me politely disagree on a few points.

 

First, when DC shipped Showcase 4, they weren't "signaling" the end of any age. They didn't know any age existed. This was 1956. Collectors didn't exist in any number or organized fashion. It was collectors 20 years later that started formulating the idea of "ages" and such. DC wasn't signaling anything except they hoped the book would sell. The first three issues of Showcase and the first 25 of Brave & the Bold were not anything like superheroes.

 

I certainly agree that the editors at DC thought that it had been long enough to at least try to reintroduce some Super Hero books. But then Atlas thought that the year before. And DC had introduced a new super hero in Detective 225. So still remains the question of "why" on Showcase 4.

 

For a very, very long time I was 100% convinced as you are that Martian Manhunter was bit player and could not count as the beginning of anything. A careful look at the facts at least strongly challenges that opinion. To begin with, J'onn-J'onzz ran over 100 issues in Detective comics. Then transferred to HOM as the main feature for 30 more issues. J'onn was one of the founding members of the JLA along with the likes of Superman, Batman, Flash, GL and Wonder Woman.

 

Compare this to the sputtering starts of the Flash and Green Lantern. A stong case can be made for the Martian Manhunter's success and importance being more overlooked than unimportant.

 

Ultimately - you and I agree and disagree on exactly the same thing. I largely agree with your last paragraph. But not the time. IMO Showcase 4 is a prequel, an interesting and important look at what was to come. A Flash book did start the SA (or 2nd Heroic age). But fandom had it correct in back 1971. With Flash 105.

 

 

[Tony S]

There isn't a bright line delineating the start and end of any age. Even if you agree that GA starts with Action 1, that doesn't mean that all books from all publishers changed that same month. Nor is their agreement on when the GA ended and whether there is such a thing as an Atomic Age.

 

In order for a comic to start an age it has to inspire and have a noticeable success. This excludes Tec 225. There's no evidence I'm aware of a creator being contemporaneously inspired by Martian Manhunter, much less comic fans declaring him "favorite hero" or handing out awards to the creative team. Nor was it very successful judging by the fact that it received top billing on a comic starting only in June 1964. He didn't make a cover appearance until B&B 28.

 

Challengers wasn't a superhero team but Kirby's version of the adventure stories like DC had in My Greatest Adv and Tales of the Unexpected. I suspect that was the reason it got the green light for a solo title, just like FF 1 was probably approved because it superficially looked like Marvel's perhero monster book more than a superhero book. Challengers had no super-powers, special costume, alter-egos, hidden identities etc. that were hallmarks of the super-hero revival. In addition it was a team book when the majority of the coming wave of super-heros/heroic characters were solo actors.

 

It's not significant that Flash waited a couple years to get his own title. Superman's second cover appearance was Action 7, his third Action 10. Basically, DC had burned out on publishing anything but Supe, Bats, and WW and only the finalizing of the sales results induced them to run a second and a third trial. Results came in 3 months following the distribution date after which the decision was made to do any Flash story -- which would have taken a month. That's why there's at least a 4 month gap between the first 3 appearances of Flash.

 

Flash was a re-interpretation of the original GA Flash with a science fiction twist. That was the pattern for GL, Atom, Hawkman etc. B&B 28 was the natural evolution of the All Star/ Justice Society concept for the new heroes. Even the Marvel hero origins were science fiction based, though with the Kirby/Lee/Ditko spin loved by Marvel zombies and others. The creators and fans all noticed the difference in super-heros before Flash and after Flash, and gave awards to Schwartz/Infantino/Anderson. There were superheros created/revived throughout the 50s but the one that "stuck" was the Flash.

 

Your post is interesting and points well made. But I would like to redirect in one area. There was no real organized comic fandom in 1956, no awards except the National Cartoonists Society Awards that in 1956 started including a category for comic books. . Infantino won the comic book award in 1958. But then Wood won it twice 1957 and 1959. Eisner won it six times. The Alley Awards started in 1961. The Shazam's in 1970 The Kirby's, The Eisner's, the Harvey's - all MUCH, MUCH later.

 

Comic fandom's history is well documented but hard to summarize. There was a definite fan base following of the EC comic line. Several fanzines were published (EC Fan Bulletin, Hoo-Haa)! and others. This fell apart with the Comics Code Authority and EC's demise. The second was a result of the 2nd Heroic age. Most collectors/historians agree that Jerry Bails Alter Ego (1961) established comic fandom as we know it. Stan Lee has stated numerous times that before Marvel started their line of Super hero books, fan mail consisted of "my comic only had one staple, I want a nickel back".

 

My Point: If you base your "ages" in comic book history on awards, inspiration and notable succcess you have to fast forward a few years. Maybe more than just a few years.... If you fast forward a few years - you leave Showcase 4 behind.

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

I think it's extremely likely that Superman 108 was the best selling superhero book that month.

 

Editors were pretty conservative so giving Challengers and Lois Lane titles first doesn't seem surprising even if they didn't outsell Showcase 4.