Will Silver age follow Golden age?

[joe_collector]

I'd rather have them find their own hobbies and interests, and have their own "Golden Age" they can look back on with fondness.

 

Very well stated.

 

Sure let them blow $20 a pop on those DVD's that they watch once then put away forever or $50 a pop on those X-Box games that they finish in two weeks and then on to the next one.

 

 

You sound just like my mother did. Oh man, your reply is so priceless, and illustrates my point better than I ever could.

[joe_collector]

put your money where your mouth is and get out while you can. If slabb prices are doomed surely this will have a negative impact on your raw copies as well.

 

Hey, *some* of us aren't stupid enough to tie up our life savings into a pile of old newsprint.

 

I collect because it's my hobby and I get enjoyment out of buying back issues. I flush each and every dollar I spend, and if tomorrow they are worthless from a monetary standpoint, I could care less, as that's NOT why I bought them.

 

I do feel sorry for those who only see $$$ when buying comics, as without a nostalgic link and attachment to the books themselves, it must be a pretty boring way to spend your time.

[Silver Surfer]

they also couldn't understand why kids wouldn't continue to grow up with sportscards (at $9.99 and up a pack?), and then as adults, happily pay hundreds of thousands to buy their collections.

 

How many people here are spending hundreds of thousands on comics? Are we not talking about todays average collector? Those big spenders make up only a small percentage and they have the money to spend anyways. They can ride out the ups and down of the market but may get nailed if they try and speculate simply try to flip for profit. There will always be big spenders in every hobby so I doubt that this segment will be hard any time soon.

[Mr. Zipper]

Good points but how do we know that 15-year olds are not buying comics? I'm sure there are numbers to support purchasing habits but does anyone have comparable numbers handy showing a declining trend?

 

I'm sure Marvel and DC have conducted demographic market analysis regarding who buys comics... however my sense is that they don't want the shareholders to see the results. Or, perhaps the increased focus on movies, video games, merchandising, etc. should be the "tell" that reveals what the future of the monthly pamphlet business holds.

 

I think some 15 year olds are buying comics, but for some anecdotal evidence of what they buy and think is cool, go to the CPG Boards. There are many more young users there than on these boards. They have about as much reverance for Golden and Silver Age comics as I have for the latest manga take on Spider-Man.

 

If anyone thinks those young collectors will be looking to buy car money Silver Age slabs in 20 years...

 

 

In any case, I think it's an interesting debate.

[Aman619]

as always, when this subject comes up its always argued in black and whites. We get the usual stock declarations that comics are dead, everyone who's smart either is selling off now or buying just for enjoyment and there will ne NO MORE collectors xx years down the road.

 

And the other side tries to answer back that comics will never die etc etc. and will keep increasing in value!

 

But like evrything in the REAL world, the future is made up of greytones. There will be comic collectors 20-30 years from now. But not as many as today. They WILL be buying HG slabbed(or post CGC-style) SA and GA books, but demand will shift, or evolve from todays demand. etc etc etc. Prices will mutate too, some key books will be muh higher (go ahead and laugh) while others lose most of their value due to lesser demand for the abundant supply.

 

I dont understand (for the umpteenth time) why this gets so emotional where somebody has to be a genius, and the other guy an .

Lets just all agree to meet up in 20 years under a lamppost and figure out who came closest to the truth. Whaddaya say, guys???

[Dr. Love]

In 20 years the 45 year old Baby Boomer will still be only 65 years old, still working, life expectancy in the 85-90 range, still lusting after Kirby and willing to take a minute to debate whether Thor was stronger than the Hulk. Will there still be comic collecting as we know it after we're gone? who cares? but if the average age range attending the san diego con is any example, the answer is probably yes

[joe_collector]

In 20 years the 45 year old Baby Boomer will still be only 65 years old,

 

I think you need to work on your math a bit. The first wave of Boomers are hitting 60 right now, and in 20 years, the majority will be 75-80.

[joe_collector]

Lets just all agree to meet up in 20 years under a lamppost and figure out who came closest to the truth. Whaddaya say, guys???

 

No need, as it's obvious what will occur, just as it happened to my grandfather (stamps) and father (coins) before me. No adult-controlled collectible field ever spans a generation.

 

Only those unwilling to look cannot see.

[lou_fine]

I'm not using this as an arguement to keep buying HG grade slabbs but who's to say that todays 15-year olds will not be turned on to SA comics 10 years from now when they can actually afford them after having another 10-years of being exposed to proper marketing from Marvel, DC, etc? I think if you like Superhero movies as a kid, the next natural step is to read some of the comics to understand where Doc and the Green Goblin ideas came from.

 

Surfer;

 

I guess you are asking why it is so hard to believe that kids will be asking for HG SA books in the future?

 

I guess the answer can be found in the following question to you. How many HG GA books are you chasing after since the GA represents the beginning of a lot of the SA heroes?

[Silver Surfer]

I'm not using this as an arguement to keep buying HG grade slabbs but who's to say that todays 15-year olds will not be turned on to SA comics 10 years from now when they can actually afford them after having another 10-years of being exposed to proper marketing from Marvel, DC, etc? I think if you like Superhero movies as a kid, the next natural step is to read some of the comics to understand where Doc and the Green Goblin ideas came from.

 

Surfer;

 

I guess you are asking why it is so hard to believe that kids will be asking for HG SA books in the future?

 

I guess the answer can be found in the following question to you. How many HG GA books are you chasing after since the GA represents the beginning of a lot of the SA heroes?

 

When I was a kid I had no attachment to GA for the following reasons:

 

- Too many good SA comics to explore and buy.

- Couldn't afford it back then.

- They were very hard to find.

- SA characters and comics were in the forefront at the LCS. I new little about GA comics other than the usual main stays.

- I am a Marvel fan and Captain America isn't one of the series I collected so outside of the Sub-Mariner what other Marvel GA hero's moved through to the SA? The Whizzer?

 

However, now that I have bought a lot of the SA stuff I didn't have as a kid and I am much more educated on the hobby my last two purchases have been GA Human Torch #36 and Marvel Mystery Comics #4 with the Sub-Mariner on the cover. I am actually thinking that I might start to buy up the old GA Sub-Mariner Comics because I have always liked the connection he had with the dawn of the SA. 95%of the best selling Marvel Comics today had their beginnings in the SA and that was almost 50 years ago. Marvel's (Timely) mistake in the GA was that for the first 6 years almost every Torch, Subby, MMC, Cap issue had a war cover on it. Gets pretty lame after a while and shortly after the war was over so was their GA era.

 

I started going to my LCS because I had friends that wanted to do so as well. I started reading the titles I liked and here I am now. I figure most people on these boards have more or less gone through the same evolution. Why is it so hard to believe that kids today won't do the same? Movies and video games might get them started? If there are any 20 year members on these boards why don't we ask them what they think.

[joe_collector]

If there are any 20 year members on these boards why don't we ask them what they think.

 

It's not the 20 year olds we have to worry about, but the 5-10 year old kids who are expected to *replace* the dead/retired/senile/bed-ridden collectors of today in 15-20 years.

 

Sorry, but I just don't see any of them having an interest in paying nosebleed prices (or any price for that matter) for old comic books.

[Aman619]

Lets just all agree to meet up in 20 years under a lamppost and figure out who came closest to the truth. Whaddaya say, guys???

 

No need, as it's obvious what will occur, just as it happened to my grandfather (stamps) and father (coins) before me. No adult-controlled collectible field ever spans a generation.

 

Only those unwilling to look cannot see.

 

how about oli paintings/fine art?

furniture.

autographs.

 

and (hopefully Im not stepping on a landmine here..) you mean to say that today NO stamps or coins are worth anything anymore? And therefore NO (none, zero) comics will have any value in 20 years either? Or are you merely making the analogy that those used to be very popular with kids, but just arent anymore...even though the best examples in the best condition are still pretty valuable?

 

"some people see so far and clearly, they are blinded."

[delekkerste]

I started going to my LCS because I had friends that wanted to do so as well. I started reading the titles I liked and here I am now. I figure most people on these boards have more or less gone through the same evolution. Why is it so hard to believe that kids today won't do the same? Movies and video games might get them started? If there are any 20 year members on these boards why don't we ask them what they think.

 

Dude, you gotta stop thinking like a comic collector. I'm sure a guy who's really into collecting old toenail clippings thinks it's perfectly natural for others to go through the same evolution as he did as well. The fact of the matter is that it's tough enough to get kids today interested in making 6 trips @ $2.99 a pop to the comic store to pick-up a single storyline when they've got videogames, DVDs, e-commerce, e-travel, e-mail, eBay, e-porn, e-dating, electronics and other more economic, disposable and interactive forms of entertainment to keep them occupied. Expecting their behavior to evolve further into spending ridiculous amounts of time and money learning the hobby and buying back issue funny books at prices that induce sticker-shock, plus dealing with preservation and storage issues is just not going to happen.

 

This is not a generation that values collecting overpriced old stuff; this is a generation that wants interactive, disposable entertainment and instant gratification. I'm not saying that no one will go through the evolution you suggest, but the number of readers and collectors and the hobby in general is in a long-term secular decline. And, like it or not, the higher comic prices go, the higher the barriers to entry become for new collectors. You guys bidding up comic prices to nosebleed levels expecting to ring the register in 20 years are only shooting yourselves in the foot in the long-run.

[joe_collector]

Or are you merely making the analogy that those used to be very popular with kids, but just arent anymore...even though the best examples in the best condition are still pretty valuable?

 

Define "pretty valuable"?

 

Now go back and figure out what the top 10% of stamps was worth in the 70's, factor in inflation and base interest rates, and then tell me how much profit you'd make in 2004.

 

Now do the same thing for coins, circa the early 80's, using the top 10% of the market at that point in time.

 

Now for a real gas, so the same thing for sportscards in the mid-90's, again with the top 10% of the market as the base.

 

I guarantee that you WILL have lost money, and likely a ton of money by buying at the APEX of the hobby, and then holding it through to the next generations, as demand slackens and prices fold.

 

Remember, it's never about "worthless" (as you wags like to spout) but "relative price", or how much you paid for it, the interest you declined, and the inflation since then... all relative to the price attained in 2020.

 

Personally, I can't see ANY comic providing a noticeable profit over that timeframe, assuming you paid market value in 2004.

[joe_collector]

And, like it or not, the higher comic prices go, the higher the barriers to entry become for new collectors. You guys bidding up comic prices to nosebleed levels expecting to ring the register in 20 years are only shooting yourselves in the foot in the long-run.

 

Well said!!

[rjpb]

Marvel's (Timely) mistake in the GA was that for the first 6 years almost every Torch, Subby, MMC, Cap issue had a war cover on it. Gets pretty lame after a while

 

Lame! If it wasn't for all those fan--tastic Schomburg war covers, Timely's would be pretty weak. Inside, the few stories that are decently illustrated are generally still pretty stupid - I don't know how much of the output Stan Lee was responsible back in the Golden Age, but the writing in Timleys makes the DC books back then read like Hemingway.

[Aman619]

Or are you merely making the analogy that those used to be very popular with kids, but just arent anymore...even though the best examples in the best condition are still pretty valuable?

 

Define "pretty valuable"?

 

Now go back and figure out what the top 10% of stamps was worth in the 70's, factor in inflation and base interest rates, and then tell me how much profit you'd make in 2004.

 

Now do the same thing for coins, circa the early 80's, using the top 10% of the market at that point in time.

 

Now for a real gas, so the same thing for sportscards in the mid-90's, again with the top 10% of the market as the base.

 

I guarantee that you WILL have lost money, and likely a ton of money by buying at the APEX of the hobby, and then holding it through to the next generations, as demand slackens and prices fold.

 

Remember, it's never about "worthless" (as you wags like to spout) but "relative price", or how much you paid for it, the interest you declined, and the inflation since then... all relative to the price attained in 2020.

 

Personally, I can't see ANY comic providing a noticeable profit over that timeframe, assuming you paid market value in 2004.

 

I said pretty valuable because I dont follow them. But I get the Heritage catalogues and see page after page of items for sale like clockwork. Id say the game is still pretty viable. And arent there tons of coinees right here on the other side of the boards?

 

As for baseball cards, I bought HG 50s and 60s star cards and sets at the end of the 80s. I recently sold them and nearly doubled what I spent on them back then. I was pleasantly surprised for two reasons: they turned out to be only 7s and 8s with a handful of 9s. And, I was convinced by all the "wags" on your side of th efence that Baseball cards had all TANKED!!

 

So why was I able to do so well with a dead collectible? ...and dont start analyzing that it was only a 5% rate of return etc, By your reasoning and analysis, I should have barely eked out what I spent in the first place and thanked my lucky stars. Remember too, that some other collectors actually BOUGHT them, and paid buyers commissions too etc. I though all Boomers were unloading their stuff...not buying mid grade baseball cards.... Or did my cards end up in Europe???

[ninanina]

And, like it or not, the higher comic prices go, the higher the barriers to entry become for new collectors. You guys bidding up comic prices to nosebleed levels expecting to ring the register in 20 years are only shooting yourselves in the foot in the long-run.

 

Well said!!

 

I don't know JC, let's not forget it doesn't matter how expensive comics get...there's always gonna' be cheap one's out there to get a non-collector interested. And....with e-bay....the exposure will be and is... world-wide.

 

I for one cannot predict what's gonna' happen, either way. I never plan on selling my collection...so for me it's really doesn't matter.

 

I've graduated to buying back-issues now...only because moderns are too expensive and the cheap stuff are moderns that came out in the last 10-15 years. I'm pretty sure a lot of people are gonna' figure that out sooner or later. So, the casual reader who is exposed at a few comics here and there when he's 15 is gonna' realize comics are cheap..as long as you don't buy new ones.

 

Lotsa' arguments for and against a major upheaval in this hobby. Bottom line..

 

who knows for sure?

 

I don't.

[ninanina]

 

Sorry, but I just don't see any of them having an interest in paying nosebleed prices (or any price for that matter) for old comic books.

 

Becoming a collector is not an over-nite experience where a 15 year old says in 10 years.....Ok, I gotta' get me an Amazing Fantasy 15 now in a 9.2.. So, your right in that respect.

 

But....quite possibly this 25 year old who has been exposed to comics over the last decade or two through games, movies, television shows and maybe even virtual reality

 

.... will decide to collect a run of Spider-Man comics that could very well include an Amazing Fantasy 15....when he's 40 or 50. Considering a possible world - wide fan collecting base....I am thinking the odds are pretty good.

 

We are after all going forth and multiplying....are we not?

[Aman619]

hey Gene, maybe I should send thi sin s PM, but what the hay - - -

why are you bidding on Filter's huge lot of Silver!?

jeeez.. Dont tell JC youre buying again!!! it'll kill em!

 

 

100K of old paper!!