I think I found a new Centaur 2 2

[buttock]

I can't find any reports of this book existing anywhere. I've pored over years of OSPGs and googled like crazy. Nothing on GCD.

 

What this appears to be is a reprint of World Famous Heroes Magazine #2 that was re-titled and distributed as an incentive for CMO (see the back cover ad). It has CMO ads in the inside front cover, and both back & front covers, which is different from WFHM #2. There is no indicia.

 

I've now found a second copy, so it's not unique, but it doesn't seem to be common at all. Anyone else know of a copy?

 

[buttock]

For reference sake, here is what WFHM #2 looks like (not my copy).

 

[Sqeggs]

Kind of funny that in the reprint the heroes go from being world famous to just being popular in America.

 

And it's a new one on me.

[PreHero]

I've now found a second copy, so it's not unique, but it doesn't seem to be common at all. Anyone else know of a copy?

 

 

Very cool and congrats on the new find! Never seen one nor ever heard of this title before. There appears to be at least three books like this - Centaur cover and probably contents, but new or different title: Amazing Mystery Funnies with Amazing Man cvr, Khaki Komics with Stars & Stripes cvr, and now this one.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there are others? Also, how/where they were distributed - because they are so uncommon, I wonder if they were only locally distributed.

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

[buttock]

Kind of funny that in the reprint the heroes go from being world famous to just being popular in America.

 

And it's a new one on me.

 

Not to mention the one of the American heroes is Canadian.

[buttock]

I've now found a second copy, so it's not unique, but it doesn't seem to be common at all. Anyone else know of a copy?

 

 

Very cool and congrats on the new find! Never seen one nor ever heard of this title before. There appears to be at least three books like this - Centaur cover and probably contents, but new or different title: Amazing Mystery Funnies with Amazing Man cvr, Khaki Komics with Stars & Stripes cvr, and now this one.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there are others? Also, how/where they were distributed - because they are so uncommon, I wonder if they were only locally distributed.

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

 

Jeff, do you know where that AMF ended up? I remember being offered a copy years ago.

[PreHero]

I've now found a second copy, so it's not unique, but it doesn't seem to be common at all. Anyone else know of a copy?

 

 

Very cool and congrats on the new find! Never seen one nor ever heard of this title before. There appears to be at least three books like this - Centaur cover and probably contents, but new or different title: Amazing Mystery Funnies with Amazing Man cvr, Khaki Komics with Stars & Stripes cvr, and now this one.

 

I'm starting to wonder if there are others? Also, how/where they were distributed - because they are so uncommon, I wonder if they were only locally distributed.

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

 

Jeff, do you know where that AMF ended up? I remember being offered a copy years ago.

 

Dan, I believe both ended up being sold by World's Finest.

 

First time I was aware of the book existed was a WF auction. Shortly after that, I was offered another copy at SDCC. Unfortunately, I passed and Mark Wilson purchased it and put it in another auction.

[markseifert]

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

 

At a glance, it's easy to imagine them (just "Comic Corporation of America" at this point) taking existing inventory and throwing stuff against the wall to see what worked in '41 and '42.

 

Centaur itself declared bankruptcy in Oct. 1940, owing World Color $48k and Funnies Inc $4800.

 

So, they couldn't print with World Color anymore even operating under the other corp name because the industry wasn't so big that that wouldn't have been obvious, and you can see from indicias that they did change printers.

 

And they couldn't use Jacquet anymore for the same reason, and Jacquet had taken most of the Centaur creative stable with him when he formed Funnies in the first place, so they probably weren't in a great position to generate new material.

 

In any case, interesting discovery. (thumbs u

[buttock]

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

 

At a glance, it's easy to imagine them (just "Comic Corporation of America" at this point) taking existing inventory and throwing stuff against the wall to see what worked in '41 and '42.

 

Centaur itself declared bankruptcy in Oct. 1940, owing World Color $48k and Funnies Inc $4800.

 

So, they couldn't print with World Color anymore even operating under the other corp name because the industry wasn't so big that that wouldn't have been obvious, and you can see from indicias that they did change printers.

 

And they couldn't use Jacquet anymore for the same reason, and Jacquet had taken most of the Centaur creative stable with him when he formed Funnies in the first place, so they probably weren't in a great position to generate new material.

 

In any case, interesting discovery. (thumbs u

 

Maybe it was Jacquet or World Color trying to make money with what property (rights, art, printed materials) they had left over from Centaur.

 

 

[PreHero]

 

Interestingly, these each have covers from the last of the Centaur titles - those that ended between Dec 1941 and Apr 1942. Some type of last grasp for the company or just a way to make some money as they existed publishing comics?

 

At a glance, it's easy to imagine them (just "Comic Corporation of America" at this point) taking existing inventory and throwing stuff against the wall to see what worked in '41 and '42.

 

Centaur itself declared bankruptcy in Oct. 1940, owing World Color $48k and Funnies Inc $4800.

 

So, they couldn't print with World Color anymore even operating under the other corp name because the industry wasn't so big that that wouldn't have been obvious, and you can see from indicias that they did change printers.

 

And they couldn't use Jacquet anymore for the same reason, and Jacquet had taken most of the Centaur creative stable with him when he formed Funnies in the first place, so they probably weren't in a great position to generate new material.

 

In any case, interesting discovery. (thumbs u

 

Maybe it was Jacquet or World Color trying to make money with what property (rights, art, printed materials) they had left over from Centaur.

 

 

Interesting! Always wondered about Comic Corporation of America (CCoA) and assumed it was just another name for Centaur, since there was over a year of overlap between the publishers. Never realized Centaur had gone bankrupt in Oct 1940.

 

So, I checked GCD and found some interesting (at least to me) information, which provides some insight into the end (?) of "Centaur" line.

 

Centaur started publishing comic books cover dated March 1938 - taking over Funny Pages, Funny Picture Stories, Star Comics and Star Ranger from Ultem. By books cover dated Oct 1940, Centaur had ceased publishing the last of the long running titles - Amazing Mystery Funnies, Funny Pages and Keen Detective Funnies - and was in the process of moving their key characters into new titles starting with #1 (sound familiar?).

 

The last (almost) of the titles originally published by Centaur were cover dated Dec 1940 (with a probable Oct/Nov newsstand date matching the bankruptcy date). An interesting footnote, starting with books cover dated Nov 1940, covers had both a US and Canadian price - last gasp trying to expand into Canada (?). By Jan 1941, this option was gone due to the War Exchange Conservation Act introduced in December of 1940 banning the import of comics from the US.

 

Comic Corporation of America published it's first title - Amazing Man #5 - in Sept 1939, while Centaur was still going strong. From Jan 1941 until May 1941, this was the only "Centaur" title on newsstands. In May 1941, Stars & Stripes #2 (#1) was published. CCoA went on to publish only a handful of original titles - Liberty Scouts, Man of War, World Famous Heroes Magazine and C-M-O. The sole carry over from Centaur line was Arrow #3, cover dated Oct 1941 - almost a year after #2! Sometime in 1942, CCoA ceased publication of comic books.

 

After Centaur went bankrupt in Oct 1940, did Hardie and Kelly continue to run CCoA into 1942? Another intersting footnote - it appears that Hardie and Kelly, who owned Centaur (and CCoA?), conitnued to exist thru the 1940s and tried their hand at publishing comics one last time in the mid-50s!

Edited September 29, 2012 by PreHero

[markseifert]

Interesting! Always wondered about Comic Corporation of America (CCoA) and assumed it was just another name for Centaur, since there was over a year of overlap between the publishers. Never realized Centaur had gone bankrupt in Oct 1940.

 

So, I checked GCD and found some interesting (at least to me) information, which provides some insight into the end (?) of "Centaur" line.

 

Yeah, I think it's interesting also. I've only started getting interested in the business aspects of this, so it's possible someone like Jon Berk has already worked out how all this fits together throughout... in any case, it's not too hard to see how the various early threads (Ultem, Comic Magazine Company) gathered together into Centaur, but at first glance it's not so clear what happened after the Oct 1940 Centaur Publications bankruptcy.

 

The indicias show that Centaur and Comic Corporation of America for a time shared the same 215 4th Avenue NY, NY editorial office address, so that clearly ties it in even after the bankruptcy of Centaur Publications (and as you say, there was some overlap of the name use for awhile there, according to indicias)

 

Googling the publishing address in the 1941-42 CCoA era indicias (which during this era usually means where the comic was printed), it looks like they switched from World Color to Phelps Publishing Co. for printing -- who was also the printer for Fox Publications at this time (and incidentally, Phelps was the publisher of Good Housekeeping magazine).

 

According to the Fox article by Jon Berk on comicartville.com, Phelps helped force Fox into bankruptcy in early 1942. So... it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that they kept Comic Corporation of America on a short leash as well, possibly explaining their end (and the ultimate end of the Centaur-related line) around the same time.

[jbcomicbox]

Interesting! Always wondered about Comic Corporation of America (CCoA) and assumed it was just another name for Centaur, since there was over a year of overlap between the publishers. Never realized Centaur had gone bankrupt in Oct 1940.

 

So, I checked GCD and found some interesting (at least to me) information, which provides some insight into the end (?) of "Centaur" line.

 

Yeah, I think it's interesting also. I've only started getting interested in the business aspects of this, so it's possible someone like Jon Berk has already worked out how all this fits together throughout... in any case, it's not too hard to see how the various early threads (Ultem, Comic Magazine Company) gathered together into Centaur, but at first glance it's not so clear what happened after the Oct 1940 Centaur Publications bankruptcy.

 

The indicias show that Centaur and Comic Corporation of America for a time shared the same 215 4th Avenue NY, NY editorial office address, so that clearly ties it in even after the bankruptcy of Centaur Publications (and as you say, there was some overlap of the name use for awhile there, according to indicias)

 

Googling the publishing address in the 1941-42 CCoA era indicias (which during this era usually means where the comic was printed), it looks like they switched from World Color to Phelps Publishing Co. for printing -- who was also the printer for Fox Publications at this time (and incidentally, Phelps was the publisher of Good Housekeeping magazine).

 

According to the Fox article by Jon Berk on comicartville.com, Phelps helped force Fox into bankruptcy in early 1942. So... it wouldn't be too hard to imagine that they kept Comic Corporation of America on a short leash as well, possibly explaining their end (and the ultimate end of the Centaur-related line) around the same time.

 

Great information. The end of "Centaur" is not known by me. I also heard that the paper conservation act hit them hard. Note the first round for Fox and Centaur hit about the same time.

 

Some of the stuff in the Fox article I got from microfliche of the New York Times....What kills me is that this info had to be there for the getting, but the passage of time turns a known history to an unknown history.....I guess I should check out Steranko History

 

Bankrupcy records are a source

 

Finally, where did you get the debt dollars from?

 

Good work again.

 

...oh I do not have the World Popular book.....just the CMO and Double Comics books.

 

 

jb

[buttock]

Jon, do the CMO books have similar ads? I notice they're now listed in the promotional section of OSPG.

[markseifert]

Finally, where did you get the debt dollars from?

 

That part is from research done by Tim Stroup, co-founder of the Grand Comic Book Database:

 

http://www.mindmeister.com/123768009/centaur-publications-comics-mar-1938-dec-1940

 

http://todayincomics.blogspot.com/2011/11/centaur-publications-demise.html

 

As you can see there he dug up the NYT notices. Very interesting stuff indeed.

 

[Sqeggs]

Finally, where did you get the debt dollars from?

 

That part is from research done by Tim Stroup, co-founder of the Grand Comic Book Database:

 

http://www.mindmeister.com/123768009/centaur-publications-comics-mar-1938-dec-1940

 

http://todayincomics.blogspot.com/2011/11/centaur-publications-demise.html

 

As you can see there he dug up the NYT notices. Very interesting stuff indeed.

 

 

$100,00 was a not inconsiderable chunk of change for those days, particularly for what was seemingly a small scale operation. Perhaps an indication that their sales were truly dismal?

[markseifert]

$100,00 was a not inconsiderable chunk of change for those days, particularly for what was seemingly a small scale operation. Perhaps an indication that their sales were truly dismal?

 

I was just thinking about that angle too. A $48,000 print bill is a lot of comics.

 

So, it's 10 cents split 4 ways: publisher, printer, distributor, newsdealer -- and the pub and distro have to factor in returns. That's a pretty tiny unit cost (for the publisher buying from the printer). 3 or 4 cents per unit, plus or minus?

 

Could be around 1.5 million comics, maybe more.

 

Roughly how many titles per month was Centaur doing throughout 1940?

 

 

[jbcomicbox]

Jon, do the CMO books have similar ads? I notice they're now listed in the promotional section of OSPG.

 

I took this from the Keltner Index. The books have limited adds...."Super Ann" may be a different version from the Centaur character

 

 

 

C-M-O COMICS #1-2.

Published for the Chicago Mail Order Co. by the

Comic Corporation of America.

Total Pages 68 52

Year, 19-- 42 42

Date --- ---

No. 1 2

Jack and Judy Alden [1] ................(12 11 )

Jack and Judy Alden [2] ................( 8 )

"Star Spangles" Branner ................(10 8 )

The Invisible Terror ...................( 8 8 )

The Gaucho .............................( 8 7 )

Super Ann [young aspiring actress] .....( 6 6 )

Ed Smith ...............................( 4 4 )

"Plymo" the Rubber Man .................( 7 )

----- Note: Each page featured goods sold through

the mail by the CMO. These are drawn

into the story, and pointed out in the

one panel of advertising allotted per

page. This was a complimentary giveaway

comic. There were no pages devoted

to advertising, except those exclusively for CMO

[PreHero]

Finally, where did you get the debt dollars from?

 

That part is from research done by Tim Stroup, co-founder of the Grand Comic Book Database:

 

http://www.mindmeister.com/123768009/centaur-publications-comics-mar-1938-dec-1940

 

http://todayincomics.blogspot.com/2011/11/centaur-publications-demise.html

 

As you can see there he dug up the NYT notices. Very interesting stuff indeed.

 

 

$100,00 was a not inconsiderable chunk of change for those days, particularly for what was seemingly a small scale operation. Perhaps an indication that their sales were truly dismal?

 

It looks like Centaur was on the brink by the end of 1940. According to the MindMeister Mind Map for Centaur (extremely cool map btw - thx for link), World Color and Funnies, Inc filed a petition on Oct 4th, and Centaur filed bankruptcy by the 21st.

 

I've always read poor distribution was a contributing factor , but it also seems Centaur did not have a break out character or title. I wonder if they were just crowded off the newsstand by better financed new publishers in the wake of the success of Superman, Batman, Human Torch and Sub-Mariner?

 

There were only fourteen March 1938 cvr dated comics on the newstand - over half were reprint titles & Centaur had more titles (4) than any other publisher. By issues cvr dated Apr 1940, there are 50 different titles and over 80% are new material by heavyweights like DC, Timely, Fawcett, MLJ, FH, Nedor, Quality, Fox, Hillman, Street & Smith, Harvey - from Eric Andresen's article in CBM #13.

Edited September 30, 2012 by PreHero

[markseifert]

 

I've always read poor distribution was a contributing factor , but it also seems Centaur did not have a break out character or title. I wonder if they were just crowded off the newsstand by better financed new publishers in the wake of the success of Superman, Batman, Human Torch and Sub-Mariner?

 

I've seen the poor distro factor mentioned in various places too, but imo there's a problem with that line of reasoning.

 

We can partially confirm the Kable News connection (at least so far as distribution is concerned) wondered about in Stroup's linked research, because that comic book promotional flyer drugstore find that surfaced in the early 90s contained a Kable News flyer featuring Man of War #2 and Amazing Man 26 (see Overstreet's Advanced Collector #1). So, we know for sure they (or CCoA at that point, I guess) were using Kable at the end.

 

I also think it's likely that they were using Kable before that as well. It makes sense that they (and many other comic publishers) who were printing out of World Color's St Louis location were likely using Kable because of the close proximity of St Louis and Kable's original Mt Morris IL location. Anything's possible, but the geography just makes a ton of sense.

 

By all appearances Kable was (and is) a solid outfit. Their first foray into distro was Hugo Gernsback's "Radio Craft" in 1932, we know they were a major distributor of comics from the beginning at least up through the early 60s (and likely beyond) and they are a major presence in newsstand distribution to this day.

 

Anyway, another interesting little tidbit.

[mrchocholat]

Could this be one of the GA Canadian reprints? Is there any distro info on the inside front or back covers? I would think Superior, Anglo American or Bell features might be the distributors if thats the case.