Will this negativity toward restoration ever go away?

[ninanina]

Met up with a dealer who showed me a professionally restored comic he was selling. It was the very first time I ever saw one up close. And wow, was I ever impressed. It was a Fantastic Four #1 in Apparent Very Fine (not CGC graded) Will this stigmatism towards professional grading ever go away? I'd be proud to own this one and have an opportunity to get it for $1600.00. Should I bite?

[FlComicFan]

tough call the greedy people who restored books to super high grade just to turn a buck killed that market. think to yourself would you rather have a unrestored book in the grade $1600 can buy or one that looks a lot higher. Ask how much work has been done to it as well. If its trimmed or had extensive work (they started with a good) I'd pass but thats just my opinion There are lot of FF 1's so its no investment piece

[tb]

Bite!During the time I have been reading this forum, my own attitude towardsrestoration has changed from novice/ignorant/negative to a lot more informedand objective. Especially FF and powertyrow have posted excellent info onrestoration; most influential of all was this article by Matt Wilson:http://64.177.202.231/frame8.htmAfter taking the time to understand restoration better, I feel confident to conclude that the current stigma against purple labels is largelyirrational. This is significant to me personally, since I have been looking to start a new area of collecting. I have been waiting for a while to determine whether I should go for restored or unrestored copies, and I have finally decided that the best value is to go for high grade slightly restored copies: you get excellent books withmarginal restoration for a fraction of the price!As a final test of my theory, I just purchased the book below this past week. I am very happy with it: despite looking at intensively,I have not been able to spot the color touch. So, I ask myself if itwould have been worth it to pay more than twice as much for anunrestored copy when I am unable to tell the difference? To me,that answer is a clear no, as long as the restoration is slight anddoes not detract from the overall high grade appearance. Can anyone out there spot the color touch?

[PovertyRow]

tough call the greedy people who restored books to super high grade just to turn a buck killed that market.

 

I have to disagree (and not looking for an insult here - will do that AFTER).

 

I know a few restorers. The ones I know, and the one I studied a bit with, and all held the same thought: basically - "these are comic books I love and I will do what I can do restore and preserve them".

 

That is NOT intended to be, as James T. Kirk once said "honey sweet". It is intended to be honest. Now there were some MAJOR LEAGUE dickweeds out there who would actually advertise things like "cover regloss and trime for "that mint look!" "

 

And don't put all the blame on the restorers either - even the Butthead collectors - because without COLLECORS to send in their Precious (or as Butters would say mocking Jame Gum "Precious! My PRECIOUS" They TOOK my Precious") bookjs - well - these collectors said "wow that sounds GREAT" and sent in their books.

 

But you know what? In those days malice was NOT the order of the day. People were biuying comics in those days, sight unseen, via mail order, at conditions literally described as "good to Near Mint".

 

Now if you have a good back issue collection of Overstreets, you will find out a couple of thangs!

 

Thang 1) the people that advertised the more ridiuculous "gloss and trim" ideas soon went the way of the dodo bird

 

2) the people who advertised more sane appraoaches are still around today.

 

But to call all the restorers now running (Ciccone, Wilson etc) "greedy people...just to turn a buck"??? It shows a real lack of understanding.

[ninanina]

I read the article and found it encouraging. But, this book used to be a good or even a good- so there was a massive amount of work done to it. And, it was professionally. Can't afford $8000.00 for a VF but I don't know, I am tempted at VG guide.

[Bugaboo-migration]

I may be wrong.......but I don't think he was talking about the actual restorers themselves......but the people who had their books restored so they could sell them to unsuspecting buyers to turn a profit.......but again......I could be wrong.

[murph0]

I would almost never buy a restored book..UNLESS..the book isn't findable in unrestored condition or the book is extremely hard to find and the restoration is minimal.

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

but I don't think he was talking about the actual restorers themselves.

 

Hmmm - in re-reading that is a possibility. But again,. especially in the "old days of the early 80's" well - as I said - people were advertising books as "G-NM" - and I don't see people complaining about that!

 

Insult me.

[aardvark88]

Look at the bindery corners of the restored FF 1 closely. Check for japanese paper reinforcement & color touch/blending at the staple area also. Ask who did the resto: Eclipse Conservation, local F Bernjak or other.

If it was $1,600 Cdn, go for it.

[homer-migration]

I personally don't think the negativity will ever go away, no matter how 'slight' the restoration. Restoration is an accepted necessity on original works of art, when there is only a one of a kind object; and restoration originally was a 'tool' for preservation rather than gain. Pre CGC the only reason people got comics restored was for gain - I really doubt, or should I say I have never known any collector who had a book restored simply to have a better looking book. The true collector, budget willing, simply always looked to upgrade. In this instance, I'm afraid to say, restoration was used in many cases as a deception, and this stigma has carried through. What you are basically asking is that will there ever be a time when the general comic buying public looks on a restored NM with the same value or close value to an unrestored one? If anyone actually thinks this is the case then there are some incredible buys to be had on Ebay every minute.

I have no doubt that a 'comic' restorer would present a very good case for restoration, in much the same way that anyone would defend their job; but restoration on massed produced items will always to collectors and investors seem the much much worse, if not prohibitive option.

I really get a kick out of restorers who advertise the 'removal of restoration' - Surely this in itself is a form of restoration.

[hammer-migration]

The Adv.67 is a GORGEOUS copy!!! Slight c.t. or not, the book screams quality, and there can't be more than a handful of that issue around in that kind of condition.

[homer-migration]

The Adv.67 is a GORGEOUS copy!!! Slight c.t. or not, the book screams quality, and there can't be more than a handful of that issue around in that kind of condition.

 

 

I absolutely agree - But the buyer himself stated that he paid a fraction of what an unrestored copy would have cost. This is all I am saying - That this price differential, no matter how slight the restoration will always exist.

[PovertyRow]

will always exist.

 

My feeling is that the price differential will exist until folks realize the real implications and impact of certain types of restoration.

[tb]

Talking about restored books, I just got my favorite comic back from

CGC. Although it is one of the few restored Disney's that I own, it

would probably be my very last comic to go if I ever had to part with

my collection. These early WDC&S are _impossible_ to find this nice

looking, and the #3 is my favorite cover in the entire series. Btw.,

this was the book CGC kept longer because they "needed to do

more checks". Yeah, right(!) - bet it was just as hard for them to part

with this baby as it was for me to send it on vacation .

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Well I will say that is a mighty nice book!

[tb]

> That this price differential, no matter how slight the restoration will always exist.

 

May the price differential live happily ever after (that or whenever I have finished

my SP Adventure run, whichever comes first).

 

--- As for the G-/G restored FF #1, I would probably be more sceptical. VG price sounds reasonable, but I suspect you might be able to go even lower in the current market. Some of the Marvel experts may correct me on this, but my experience is that restored books are bringing a ridiculously low multiple right now.

 

 

 

[clobberintime]

I think some of the attitude towards restored comics is laughable. I have about 5 or 10 books with purple labels and they are higher grade gold and silver. I have 3 batman books with slight p color touch that i bought from Heritage for a fraction of what they would have sold unrestored. I have a cona 1 9.4 slight p- 2 drops of glue on spine! I think I paid $150 for that one. Also have a Spidey 100 9.4 with glue on spine, a 9.6 Astonish 93 that has a green label as it has small piece of tape at centerfold! All of those books are beautiful and i can not detect anything! And i paid very little for them compared to what blue label prices are. Slight color touch, tear seal or small drops of glue do not bother me at all. in fact the slight glue and tear seals actually help to preserve the appearance of the comic and I would rather have that than a torn book.

[drbanner]

Matt Nelson's proposed restoration "heirarchy" may change the attitudes towards restored books - as it is now, a purple label is a purple label, end of story. I have no problem buying restored Golden Age books as they're very affordable, and with comments like "centerfold reinforced with glue", "cover reinforced", and "tear seal", these books are simply not in the same category as books with "pieces added, color touch, etc.,."

[FlComicFan]

thats the key knowing how much has been done. I dab of ct on a golden age book is ok as long as the price ir right. A small tear seal or spine reinforcement? Great it preserves the book. What sucks is when a restorer takes a solid vg book "that is dead and lifeless" and procede to dissasemble it add pieces, wash it, color it. By the time they are done its a Frankenstein Monster. Those kind of books are and should be the toughest to move.

 

You can get some good deals and if the restoration on that particular book doesnt bug you then more power to ya!

 

I bought a Jackpot 1 with 1 small tear sel no color touch paid less than good price it appears VF-

 

Got a Green Mask 1 appears VF corners were pressed some ct paid less than good guide.

 

I'd be more than happy to own a Marvel 1 with some minor dab of this or that if the price made it affordable for me to own it

[sborock]

"thats the key knowing how much has been done. I dab of ct on a golden age book is ok as long as the price ir right. A small tear seal or spine reinforcement? Great it preserves the book. What sucks is when a restorer takes a solid vg book "that is dead and lifeless" and procede to dissasemble it add pieces, wash it, color it. By the time they are done its a Frankenstein Monster. Those kind of books are and should be the toughest to move.

 

You can get some good deals and if the restoration on that particular book doesnt bug you then more power to ya!

 

I bought a Jackpot 1 with 1 small tear sel no color touch paid less than good price it appears VF-

 

Got a Green Mask 1 appears VF corners were pressed some ct paid less than good guide.

 

I'd be more than happy to own a Marvel 1 with some minor dab of this or that if the price made it affordable for me to own it"

 

I agree with all of that and it looks like you got some great deals! I feel if the price is right and the work is minor or looks great, buy it.BTW, I hate those "frankenstein" books