With Hard Asset Prices Plummeting, What's Next for the OA Market? 0

[AKA Rick]

Art valuation is so subjective so much like how some people define prostitution as "the act of doing something for compensation which you would not otherwise normally do without compensation" (i.e. doing it for free vs getting paid)... the definition of value can be "the price in which someone is willing to pay" - - So, as baffling as why certain pieces command certain dollars as well as why certain artists command certain dollars, there's never any real logic or pattern since in theory every single piece is a "one of a kind" item, so from a scarcity standpoint, it's a level playing field.

[suspense39]

One of a kind, supply and demand, gossip and chatter about a certain artist, a history of prices paid, preferred genres such as super hero over romance, the importance of a stories influence ect. I think there is some subjectivity involved, but there are many more factors that come into play in regard to pricing and what things sell for. For the most part a high price means more than one person believes in that price....I don't bid against myself at an auction. I think it's too simple to say that it is subjective.

Edited April 17, 2013 by suspense39

[suspense39]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/gold-crash-2013-explanation-not-obvious

 

I thought this was a nice simple article on markets and gold....easy reading

[Bronty]

Art and prostitution in the same post.... I'm not quite sure why, but I think I like it

[drdroom]

With the ASM #328 cover I'm sure the guys at Metro bought this knowing that they have a few rabid collectors/client's who will eventually pay $1M dollars for it a few years from now. Personally I wouldn't pay $10K for it as I think McFarlane's art is so overrated and while his contribution to the industry at the time was substantial for me it was the best of the worst during the most forgettable decade in comics, the 90's.

 

I have trouble thinking that they'd pay so much above the otherwise FMV just on a hope and prayer that in a few years they can flip it. I have to believe they have a much more concrete plan

 

I agree but a quick search of the Heritage archives most expensive OA pieces and you can't help but shake your head. Give me 10 classic Buscema and Byrne covers instead any day of the week!

 

Well, this just illustrates the craziness of this market, based on tastes which are highly generational. For my money there are just about ten classic Buscema covers, total, all pre-'72, and nothing from Byrne holds any interest for me. And, I KNOW IN MY BALLS THAT I AM RIGHT. And so, I am no doubt, missing a zillion terrific investment opportunities, because I can't stand to put money down on stuff I don't believe in. I think I just explained to myself why I am likely to be eaten alive...

Who here buys based on value trends? In other words, who here, pro dealers excepted, has bought a piece by an artist you can't stand, purely as an investment?

[pinupcartoonguy]

Not as an investment, but if I see a deal on a piece by an artists I don't collect that I know I can flip in hurry, it do it.

[suspense39]

Not as an investment, but if I see a deal on a piece by an artists I don't collect that I know I can flip in hurry, it do it.

 

I'm guilty of that myself

[drdroom]

Not as an investment, but if I see a deal on a piece by an artists I don't collect that I know I can flip in hurry, it do it.

 

I'm guilty of that myself

 

I don't blame you-- I'm just surprised at your confidence. Are you paying enough attention to the market outside your own collecting interests that you are able to spot these deals?

[suspense39]

Not as an investment, but if I see a deal on a piece by an artists I don't collect that I know I can flip in hurry, it do it.

 

I'm guilty of that myself

 

I don't blame you-- I'm just surprised at your confidence. Are you paying enough attention to the market outside your own collecting interests that you are able to spot these deals?

 

 

Ive done it a couple times, but they were way way under what the peices were selling for at auction or dealers, so yes I was very confident.

[malvin]

Not as an investment, but if I see a deal on a piece by an artists I don't collect that I know I can flip in hurry, it do it.

 

You are beginning to sound like me AC!

 

Malvin

[tth2]

Art and prostitution in the same post.... I'm not quite sure why, but I think I like it

Well, most dealers are w-hores, so that link is always in the background.

[Gatsby77]

I don't understand why gold's having one bad day would have any bearing on the comic book OA market.

 

Gold's been in a bubble for the last 16 months or so, and it's only logical that the speculators and "sky-is-falling dollar-will-plummet Damn-the-Fed" crowd would move their money to greener pastures like the stock market or even (shudder) bitcoin.

 

Given the proliferation of ETFs, gold is likely more speculative than original art.Silver and platinum have far more industrial uses and the best miners can extract gold for as little as $910 an ounce.

 

Regardless of your politics, the Fed's printing of money and burgeoning debt over the past few years has not led to inflation and the U.S. economy continues to improve.

 

I think real estate's a better investment right now than gold or original art, but I also don't have the necessary $40k lying around for a decent down-payment, whereas $1k-$2k could get me a decent comic book page.

[jjonahjameson1]

With the ASM #328 cover I'm sure the guys at Metro bought this knowing that they have a few rabid collectors/client's who will eventually pay $1M dollars for it a few years from now. Personally I wouldn't pay $10K for it as I think McFarlane's art is so overrated and while his contribution to the industry at the time was substantial for me it was the best of the worst during the most forgettable decade in comics, the 90's.

 

I have trouble thinking that they'd pay so much above the otherwise FMV just on a hope and prayer that in a few years they can flip it. I have to believe they have a much more concrete plan

 

I agree but a quick search of the Heritage archives most expensive OA pieces and you can't help but shake your head. Give me 10 classic Buscema and Byrne covers instead any day of the week!

 

Well, this just illustrates the craziness of this market, based on tastes which are highly generational. For my money there are just about ten classic Buscema covers, total, all pre-'72, and nothing from Byrne holds any interest for me. And, I KNOW IN MY BALLS THAT I AM RIGHT. And so, I am no doubt, missing a zillion terrific investment opportunities, because I can't stand to put money down on stuff I don't believe in. I think I just explained to myself why I am likely to be eaten alive...

Who here buys based on value trends? In other words, who here, pro dealers excepted, has bought a piece by an artist you can't stand, purely as an investment?

 

I've done it in the past with Kirby art.

[Kevin76]

With the ASM #328 cover I'm sure the guys at Metro bought this knowing that they have a few rabid collectors/client's who will eventually pay $1M dollars for it a few years from now. Personally I wouldn't pay $10K for it as I think McFarlane's art is so overrated and while his contribution to the industry at the time was substantial for me it was the best of the worst during the most forgettable decade in comics, the 90's.

 

I have trouble thinking that they'd pay so much above the otherwise FMV just on a hope and prayer that in a few years they can flip it. I have to believe they have a much more concrete plan

 

I agree but a quick search of the Heritage archives most expensive OA pieces and you can't help but shake your head. Give me 10 classic Buscema and Byrne covers instead any day of the week!

 

Well, this just illustrates the craziness of this market, based on tastes which are highly generational. For my money there are just about ten classic Buscema covers, total, all pre-'72, and nothing from Byrne holds any interest for me. And, I KNOW IN MY BALLS THAT I AM RIGHT. And so, I am no doubt, missing a zillion terrific investment opportunities, because I can't stand to put money down on stuff I don't believe in. I think I just explained to myself why I am likely to be eaten alive...

Who here buys based on value trends? In other words, who here, pro dealers excepted, has bought a piece by an artist you can't stand, purely as an investment?

 

I've done it in the past with Kirby art.

 

You don't like Kirby? Any reason why?

[jjonahjameson1]

With the ASM #328 cover I'm sure the guys at Metro bought this knowing that they have a few rabid collectors/client's who will eventually pay $1M dollars for it a few years from now. Personally I wouldn't pay $10K for it as I think McFarlane's art is so overrated and while his contribution to the industry at the time was substantial for me it was the best of the worst during the most forgettable decade in comics, the 90's.

 

I have trouble thinking that they'd pay so much above the otherwise FMV just on a hope and prayer that in a few years they can flip it. I have to believe they have a much more concrete plan

 

I agree but a quick search of the Heritage archives most expensive OA pieces and you can't help but shake your head. Give me 10 classic Buscema and Byrne covers instead any day of the week!

 

Well, this just illustrates the craziness of this market, based on tastes which are highly generational. For my money there are just about ten classic Buscema covers, total, all pre-'72, and nothing from Byrne holds any interest for me. And, I KNOW IN MY BALLS THAT I AM RIGHT. And so, I am no doubt, missing a zillion terrific investment opportunities, because I can't stand to put money down on stuff I don't believe in. I think I just explained to myself why I am likely to be eaten alive...

Who here buys based on value trends? In other words, who here, pro dealers excepted, has bought a piece by an artist you can't stand, purely as an investment?

 

I've done it in the past with Kirby art.

 

You don't like Kirby? Any reason why?

 

Personal preference, I suppose. While I find the art to be dynamic during his stint at Marvel in the 60's, I think the art is very 'blocky' and Lord knows I've tried to understand the appeal of it all, but I find the artwork to be primative and even ugly once the mid 70s through the 80s.

[pinupcartoonguy]

And I'm guessing, looking at your want list, that you didn't grow up reading Kirby, and that your nostalgia sweet spot is the '80s and beyond.

[jjonahjameson1]

And I'm guessing, looking at your want list, that you didn't grow up reading Kirby, and that your nostalgia sweet spot is the '80s and beyond.

 

For the most part, you are correct. However, I also didn't like Ditko artwork when I started reading comics, but I've come to appreciate his artwork. Kirby still hasn't registered for me.

 

Likewise, there's some artists' work I loved in the 80's, but don't really care much for it today.

 

Whether its art, food, cars and women, I guess tastes change over time.

[Dumur]

I also didn't really get and continue not to get Kirby. Blasphemy, I know. But on the other hand, I also didn't get Paul Pope for a long time and now he is likely the artist I collect the most from... so things change and maybe someday, I'll just have to have that just right Kirby piece on my wall.

[Bronty]

when I started collecting comics many years ago I didn't immediately like or get kirby either. If you're looking for a pretty picture that's not him. Heck on the face of it, it can be downright ugly. But I think most people eventually come around because there is a power, action and storytelling ability in his drawing... and... an ability to capture a moment like no one else. The Hulk ripping a tree out of the ground? No problem, he'll draw shredded roots and flying splinters and splitting wood fibers and whatever else to draw you right into the picture. A 40 foot lizard destroying manhattan? Crumbling buildings, panicking townspeople, flattened cars... man its all there. He could draw *anything* and put you right in the middle of the action.

 

I know these comments are hardly anything new, but I think the key to appreciating kirby is just reading more of those incredible stories.

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

With the ASM #328 cover I'm sure the guys at Metro bought this knowing that they have a few rabid collectors/client's who will eventually pay $1M dollars for it a few years from now. Personally I wouldn't pay $10K for it as I think McFarlane's art is so overrated and while his contribution to the industry at the time was substantial for me it was the best of the worst during the most forgettable decade in comics, the 90's.

 

I have trouble thinking that they'd pay so much above the otherwise FMV just on a hope and prayer that in a few years they can flip it. I have to believe they have a much more concrete plan

 

I agree but a quick search of the Heritage archives most expensive OA pieces and you can't help but shake your head. Give me 10 classic Buscema and Byrne covers instead any day of the week!

 

Well, this just illustrates the craziness of this market, based on tastes which are highly generational. For my money there are just about ten classic Buscema covers, total, all pre-'72, and nothing from Byrne holds any interest for me. And, I KNOW IN MY BALLS THAT I AM RIGHT. And so, I am no doubt, missing a zillion terrific investment opportunities, because I can't stand to put money down on stuff I don't believe in. I think I just explained to myself why I am likely to be eaten alive...

Who here buys based on value trends? In other words, who here, pro dealers excepted, has bought a piece by an artist you can't stand, purely as an investment?

 

Really? No Byrne X-Men, FF or even Avengers? As far as Buscema goes his work on the Avengers from issue #254-#300 was some great stuff. For me its all classic.