STRANGE TALES #110 Club! 9 9

[Sqeggs]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

16 hours ago, gadzukes said:

21 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

It would shock me if it cleared $20K, but I've been shocked before! 

I would think the "White" pages would carry it over the $20k threshold.  

Where's J-Dog when I need him? 

Ended at $15,535 (with BP)

[gadzukes]

6 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Where's J-Dog when I need him? 

Went for $15,535.  That's what it went for 18 months ago.  I think the winner is going to be happy

[SilverAgeGuy]

In this age of movies pushing prices, a post movie dip is pretty common isn't it? 

[gadzukes]

1 hour ago, SilverAgeGuy said:

In this age of movies pushing prices, a post movie dip is pretty common isn't it? 

When the 9.0 sold for $23,500 in 2014 I thought that was a bit extreme, but then another sold for $21,650 so I thought that $20k would be the new norm for the comic.  I guess this $15,500 shows what the true correction is.

[Jaydogrules]

4 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Ended at $15,535 (with BP)

 Just another data point in my arsenal for why the so-called "PQ" on the label doesn't matter.  

-J.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[roulette44]

[[face- meet palm]]  Either that or the exact opposite, newb.....

Edited February 24, 2017 by roulette44

[Jaydogrules]

Evidently not today.  

Or many others.  

-J.

[roulette44]

what a newb!

[Jaydogrules]

Considering this so called "white paged" book just sold for 25% below the last copy with "ow" on the label, this is probably not the most opportune of times for you to grind your silly little ax.

-J.

[Dark Knight]

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Considering this so called "white paged" book just sold for 25% below the last copy with "ow" on the label, this is probably not the most opportune of times for you to grind your silly little ax.

-J.

J-Dog win today!  

[namisgr]

14 hours ago, Dark Knight said:

J-Dog win today!  

 

Or, perhaps prospective buyers were turned off by the interior pages sticking way out from the front and back covers.

 

As for the record sale of $23,500, the comic was mine.  I heard from two different dealers that they thought the comic was undergraded.  That's presumably why, along with the rumblings about a Doctor Strange movie, it crushed the prior GPA record sale by 4-fold.  It also didn't have the pages sticking out from the cover.  There's no more 'potential' left in the copy that was just auctioned, and to me it had inferior eye appeal.

Edited February 24, 2017 by namisgr

[Dark Knight]

1 hour ago, namisgr said:

 

Or, perhaps prospective buyers were turned off by the interior pages sticking way out from the front and back covers.

 

As for the record sale of $23,500, the comic was mine.  I heard from two different dealers that they thought the comic was undergraded.  That's presumably why, along with the rumblings about a Doctor Strange movie, it crushed the prior GPA record sale by 4-fold.  It also didn't have the pages sticking out from the cover.  There's no more 'potential' left in the copy that was just auctioned, and to me it had inferior eye appeal.

I was being sarcastic with the comment.  I am in the camp that white paged copies sell for more than cream-offwhite page or lesser.  But if pages here offwhite-white or even offwhite, that could be debatable since CGC is not quite consistent with PQ.  To each his/her own conclusions.  I have no problem if J-Dog or anyone says otherwise thinks the opposite because I believe what I want to believe and everyone has their own opinions. 

Perhaps prices on ST #110 has gone down to reality after all the movie hype and such and we start to see more of a plateau in value? I understand that some books were graded "softly" or defects that can be pressed which boosts up the value of a book in auction.  I don't think that will ever die down.  One things for sure is that ST #110 will always be a key Marvel book that I think everyone can agree on.

[Jaydogrules]

4 hours ago, namisgr said:

 

Or, perhaps prospective buyers were turned off by the interior pages sticking way out from the front and back covers.

 

As for the record sale of $23,500, the comic was mine.  I heard from two different dealers that they thought the comic was undergraded.  That's presumably why, along with the rumblings about a Doctor Strange movie, it crushed the prior GPA record sale by 4-fold.  It also didn't have the pages sticking out from the cover.  There's no more 'potential' left in the copy that was just auctioned, and to me it had inferior eye appeal.

The thrust of your reply is essentially what I have always said.  

There are MANY reasons why books sell for what they sell for and obviously the so-called "PQ" on the label is not "the" single make-all and be-all that people are paying for (*see also the Hulk 1 in this same auction with "white pages " on the label with Marvel chipping that also sold for a signicant discount to other copies with "lesser 'PQ'" on the label).

Moral of the story is there is no consistent or provable "premium" for "white pages" (or by extension a "discount" for something without it, including books with "cream pages" or whatever on else) on the label, except for books with "brittle pages".  But even then , depending on the rarity/desirability of the book, it might not matter much if at all.

-J.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[namisgr]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

The thrust of your reply is essentially what I have always said.  

There are MANY reasons why books sell for what they sell for and obviously the so-called "PQ" on the label is not "the" single make-all and be-all that people are paying for (*see also the Hulk 1 in this same auction with "white pages " on the label with Marvel chipping that also sold for a signicant discount to other copies with "lesser 'PQ'" on the label).

-J.

To argue that the realized price on that Strange Tales #110, with its pages sticking out both front and back, is a referendum against the value the community as a whole places on page quality is a stretch.

 

Not a single board member to my knowledge has EVER suggested page quality is the single make-all and be-all in desirability and pricing, and so your categorization of the discussion as such is nothing but a red herring.  Instead, a large number of board members have said that, all other qualities being equal, they will not only seek out examples of comics with exceptional page quality, but will pay more for them.  I would, and so would many other collectors, according to their posts.

 

Furthermore, books with exceptionally preserved interior paper often have exceptionally preserved cover paper as well.  The effects of white cover stock on the richness of the cover colors, the overall eye appeal, and the collector desirability are considerable.

Edited February 25, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

To argue that the realized price on that Strange Tales #110, with its pages sticking out both front and back, is a referendum against the value the community as a whole places on page quality is a stretch.

 

Not a single board member to my knowledge has EVER suggested page quality is the single make-all and be-all in desirability and pricing, and so your categorization of the discussion as such is nothing but a red herring.  Instead, a large number of board members have said that, all other qualities being equal, they will not only seek out examples of comics with exceptional page quality, but will pay more for them.  I would, and so would many other collectors, according to their posts.

 

Furthermore, books with exceptionally preserved interior paper often have exceptionally preserved cover paper as well.  The effects of white cover stock on the richness of the cover colors, the overall eye appeal, and the collector desirability are considerable.

Not to belabor the point, or to single out gadzukes, but if you look at his post just a few up in his exchange with sqeggs, you will see that, yes there is a perception that "white pages" on the label is the be-all and end-all.  It was literally gadzukes only stated belief for why he believed this ST 110 "should" break $20k (again, not trying to single him out, this is just the most recent and convenient example).  The qualifications and rationalizations for why it didn't hit $20k, or even come close to that didn't start coming out until after the fact.  Which seems to be pretty typical with these kinds of discussions (again, see also the de facto explanations for why the Hulk 1 with "white pages" on the label didn't sell for any kind of "premium" either).  

While you may think my argument is a "red herring" the same could be said for your own additional qualification that "if all other qualities (of books) are equal...." people will take books with "white pages" on the label instead of the other book.  Well....how often are all other qualities on books ever equal?   And unless you are the prospective buyer, you just don't know what informs anybody's buying decision other than your own.  This isn't rocket science and it cannot be quantified, so there's no point in trying.  Most of the time it's more impulse and passion than anything else.  

One other thing (again, not to belabor the point) the "PQ" on the label has nothing to do with the "colour" of the paper, it is "Page 'QUALITY'".  You cannot see page "quality" (ie the suppleness of the paper) through a slab.  There are many examples of "white paged" beater books and I've seen books with dirty covers with "white pages" on the labels, etc.  Conversely, I've seen books with bright white looking covers with "cream" , "tan" or whatever other arbitrary and virtually meaningless "PQ" designation put on the label by CGC that day.

Bottom line is, in my opinion, using the "PQ" on the label as any kind of way to base a sales price is a perhaps convenient, but ultimately very flawed and dangerous way to assess (or predict) the value of any book.

-J.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[VintageComics]

On 2017-02-24 at 6:56 PM, namisgr said:

Not a single board member to my knowledge has EVER suggested page quality is the single make-all and be-all in desirability and pricing, and so your categorization of the discussion as such is nothing but a red herring.  Instead, a large number of board members have said that, all other qualities being equal, they will not only seek out examples of comics with exceptional page quality, but will pay more for them.  I would, and so would many other collectors, according to their posts.

You can't talk logic with someone who frames their reality to suit their own biases.

The ST #110 sale is no more an indication that PQ affects the price than the counter argument that it doesn't affect the price. There are too many other variables involved including auction fatigue, time of year, movie bump decline, other visual factors.

One data point does not a trend make.

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

You can't talk logic with someone who frames their reality to suit their own biases.

The ST #110 sale is no more an indication that PQ affects the price than the counter argument that it doesn't affect the price. There are too many other variables involved including auction fatigue, time of year, movie bump decline, other visual factors.

One data point does not a trend make.

The same exact thing can be said when a book with "white pages" on the label does sell for more.  

Your arguments and statements do not only work in the one direction that you want to believe they do.

Who's the one doing the "framing" here?

-J.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[VintageComics]

I didn't choose to pick one data point and state it supports my argument. You did.

The fact is that two comics, with all other things being equal, but one having nicer paper WILL be more desirable to the majority than the one with lesser page quality.

If you want to argue that you may as well insert yourself into Stephen Strange's reality and bend all reality to your will.

Edited February 26, 2017 by VintageComics

[Jaydogrules]

10 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I didn't choose to pick one data point and state it supports my argument. You did.

The fact is that two comics, with all other things being equal, but one having nicer paper WILL be more desirable to the majority than the one with lesser page quality.

If you want to argue that you may as well insert yourself into Stephen Strange's reality and bend all reality to your will.

I didn't pick "one data point".  Just the most recent one (along with the Hulk 1 from the same auction).

Don't need to bend anything to prove my point.  It's proven almost daily.  

Let me know when you're able to prove yours. 

Funny thing about that though is, even if you could (you can't) it would actually just prove mine again- that there is no consistent or quantifiable price differences in books based solely on the alleged "PQ" on the label. 

That always has been and remains my point.  

-J.

[namisgr]

On 2/24/2017 at 6:56 PM, namisgr said:

 Instead, a large number of board members have said that, all other qualities being equal, they will not only seek out examples of comics with exceptional page quality, but will pay more for them.  I would, and so would many other collectors, according to their posts.

 

This is proof.  That is, unless there are an equal number of comic collectors willing to seek out books with inferior page quality, and pay more for them.