CGC v. PGX?

[mschmidt]

Yes I did read the website and the most recent info was from nearly 10 years ago, and seemed more of an indictment of one of PGX's old customers more than anything else.

Look I'm not saying anyone should send their books to PGX to get graded, I am more offering counter point. Obviously this is not the site to do that . But by the way, PGX really tightened up their grading from around 2006-2008 so if you find any keys graded by them from that time period there's a good chance you can crack and resub to CGC for a higher grade done by a more "reputable" company. (thumbs u

 

-J.

 

Fixed it for you.

 

Feel free to personally keep supporting a bunch of scammers, crooks & thieves :thumbsup:

[Jaydogrules]

Thanks! . Remind me again though which one of us is supposed to be the shill here?

 

-J.

[mschmidt]

Here ... a book from the company you seem to enjoy supporting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321275501859

 

Oh, wait - did I forgot to mention it's a fake with a forged certificate?

 

PGX is a scam, plain & simple.

[Selecta]

Here ... a book from the company you seem to enjoy supporting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321275501859

 

Oh, wait - did I forgot to mention it's a fake with a forged certificate?

 

PGX is a scam, plain & simple.

 

Hi,

 

I need to ask... How do you know it's fake?

I have a few valuable PGX slabs and now I'm freaking out...

[Jaydogrules]

Here ... a book from the company you seem to enjoy supporting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321275501859

 

Oh, wait - did I forgot to mention it's a fake with a forged certificate?

 

PGX is a scam, plain & simple.

 

Come on Schmidt did you even read all the earlier posts where I specifically stated I have never subbed to PGX and have only bought one of their slabs in ten+ years? Geesh.

 

Selecta: Don't worry, I'm sure your books are fine. But if it worries you that much and you're thinking about selling I would recommend sending them in to CGC and get them re graded, as books in PGX slabs will sell for less on the open market. If I'm not mistaken CGC prefers you send the books to them with them still inside the PGX holders. But if you're going to re sub them anyway you might as well press them first if you think it could lead to a better grade. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

-J.

[N/A]

[DR.X]

I have a few valuable PGX slabs and now I'm freaking out...

 

[Mark 1]

Here ... a book from the company you seem to enjoy supporting:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321275501859

 

Oh, wait - did I forgot to mention it's a fake with a forged certificate?

 

PGX is a scam, plain & simple.

 

Come on Schmidt did you even read all the earlier posts where I specifically stated I have never subbed to PGX and have only bought one of their slabs in ten+ years? Geesh.

 

Selecta: Don't worry, I'm sure your books are fine. But if it worries you that much and you're thinking about selling I would recommend sending them in to CGC and get them re graded, as books in PGX slabs will sell for less on the open market. If I'm not mistaken CGC prefers you send the books to them with them still inside the PGX holders. But if you're going to re sub them anyway you might as well press them first if you think it could lead to a better grade. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

-J.

 

 

[passion4comics]

If the company was that reckless and taking known restored books and then slabbing and selling them through their own venues as unrestored, which could include a friend of a friend (example), this would be fraud. I haven’t heard of any criminal actions taken against this company. No actions by any AG. Why?

 

 

[slym2none]

There is nothing illegal about someone's opinion. They can call a CGC 8.5 a 9.6 if they want.

 

There is something morally reprehensible about it, though. If a company's leader ( )has no problem with his employees ( ) slabbing and selling their own books however they want and sees no conflict of interest, who is to stop them? If they want to gloss over looking for restoration such as colour touch & trimming, what do we say to them? Again, morally reprehensible and the collective "we" shouldn't be giving them our business, yes, but illegal?

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[GLCBrad]

Thanks! . Remind me again though which one of us is supposed to be the shill here?

 

-J.

 

You and OP both

[Jaydogrules]

There is nothing illegal about someone's opinion. They can call a CGC 8.5 a 9.6 if they want.

 

There is something morally reprehensible about it, though. If a company's leader ( )has no problem with his employees ( ) slabbing and selling their own books however they want and sees no conflict of interest, who is to stop them? If they want to gloss over looking for restoration such as colour touch & trimming, what do we say to them? Again, morally reprehensible and the collective "we" shouldn't be giving them our business, yes, but illegal?

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

 

Illegal? Probably. Actionable civilly? Definitely. Fact of the matter is, if the company's "fraud" was this rampant, they would have at least been sued out of existence a long time ago. I'm not so sure the company's owner "knows" his employees slab and sell their own books. I don't keep tabs on my employees' dealings 24/7, and I doubt most employers do. And to presume that employees of CGC have not done the same thing is a bit naïve in my opinion regardless. Ultimately, the market will decide the value of the book anyway, and again, if a company were so out of control and scandalous it most likely would have come under some kind of federal investigation by now or sued into bankruptcy.

 

Again, I get that these are CGC boards, and it's great that so many high-post-count boardies are such ardent supporters of the company. I think CGC is great as well and clearly the market leader.

 

But come on guys (this is not directed at you slym) , striking terror into other boardies' hearts by making grand conclusions and generalizations about every single book PGX has ever graded and trying to be condescending and making borderline personal attacks when someone even hints at a more fair minded and balanced approach in one's analyses is just too much and uncool. I may have a low post count on this site, and so what? I've been a collector for thirty years and I would put my experience and best five books in my personal collection up against anyone else's on here. I'm not a dealer or a flipper I collect and other than the odd duplicate book I may have from time to time, I don't sell my comics, not even to buy a different or more expensive one. I have never advocated using PGX on here but I do advocate a free market and I don't think having more than one grading company is a bad thing, if for no other reason than to keep the prices of slabbing books in check. Is it well known that PGX had a bumpy start? Yes. But that's the case with most companies, including CGC, which was vilified early for being waaaaay too harsh in their grading, to the point where they were killing the values of entire collections and angering a lot of collectors (and dealers) far bigger than me.

 

So again, nothing wrong with loving CGC and their service. Obviously I do as well, even if I do get the odd slab where the comic moves around inside, or the book is sealed in the mylar with a dog ear, or there's a human hair in there, or the plastic slab is improperly put together. Hey guess what, no one (or company) is perfect. But to make personal attacks or terrorize other boardies who had the audacity to pick up a PGX book here and there or use them because they are less expensive and not everyone has a stack of cash to spend on their books AND grading them just ain't right.

 

Sorry for the

 

-J.

[thunsicker]

read this to discover and formulate your own answer:

 

http://www.justafanboy.com/PGX/

 

This article seems more of an indictment of Terrance Leder, whoever that is, than PGX. Plus the info in it is nearly ten years old. Yes PGX had some bumps early on but then again so did CGC. The only other "scandal" I can think of regarding PGX is that obviously fake video on YouTube from a while back where some tool box pretended to get back a third printing TMNT 1 from PGX, after he supposedly sent in a first print to get graded, That guy posted on these boards for a hot minute and there was extreme skepticism from many long time posters on here as to his claims.

 

Disclosure: I have exactly one book graded by PGX, I am by no means a collector of their books, but I do believe they have gotten their act together significantly from their early days, and I think a little competition in comic book grading is good for the industry. Monopolies never seem to work out too well after all.

 

-J.

 

 

Complete & utter nonsense.

 

Ryan Elliott, supposedly the PGX "head grader", sells books he himself has graded, slabbed & witnessed on eBay under the DJBrady4U account. There have been numerous recent cases where he's been seen to have bought both lower grade and/or restored CGC books, cracked them out, and then slabbed them in a PGX holder with no mention of the resto & with a higher grade to boot.

 

Personally I don't find their grades that off (other than on books they themselves own). And I don't know that they miss THAT much restoration. But the fact that they allow Ryan Elliott to buy comics, grade them, and resell them means I will never do business with PGX.

[slym2none]

read this to discover and formulate your own answer:

 

http://www.justafanboy.com/PGX/

 

This article seems more of an indictment of Terrance Leder, whoever that is, than PGX. Plus the info in it is nearly ten years old. Yes PGX had some bumps early on but then again so did CGC. The only other "scandal" I can think of regarding PGX is that obviously fake video on YouTube from a while back where some tool box pretended to get back a third printing TMNT 1 from PGX, after he supposedly sent in a first print to get graded, That guy posted on these boards for a hot minute and there was extreme skepticism from many long time posters on here as to his claims.

 

Disclosure: I have exactly one book graded by PGX, I am by no means a collector of their books, but I do believe they have gotten their act together significantly from their early days, and I think a little competition in comic book grading is good for the industry. Monopolies never seem to work out too well after all.

 

-J.

 

 

Complete & utter nonsense.

 

Ryan Elliott, supposedly the PGX "head grader", sells books he himself has graded, slabbed & witnessed on eBay under the DJBrady4U account. There have been numerous recent cases where he's been seen to have bought both lower grade and/or restored CGC books, cracked them out, and then slabbed them in a PGX holder with no mention of the resto & with a higher grade to boot.

 

Personally I don't find their grades that off (other than on books they themselves own). And I don't know that they miss THAT much restoration. But the fact that they allow Ryan Elliott to buy comics, grade them, and resell them means I will never do business with PGX.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[mschmidt]

Illegal? Probably. Actionable civilly? Definitely. Fact of the matter is, if the company's "fraud" was this rampant, they would have at least been sued out of existence a long time ago. I'm not so sure the company's owner "knows" his employees slab and sell their own books. I don't keep tabs on my employees' dealings 24/7, and I doubt most employers do. And to presume that employees of CGC have not done the same thing is a bit naïve in my opinion regardless. Ultimately, the market will decide the value of the book anyway, and again, if a company were so out of control and scandalous it most likely would have come under some kind of federal investigation by now or sued into bankruptcy.

 

PGX is, at best, a 3 people operation and you don't think that Daniel Patterson knows exactly what Ryan Elliott is doing? :doh:

 

This is the second time you've made the claim about CGC employees slabbing & selling their own books - care to back that statement up with some proof?

 

[DR.X]

PGX is, at best, a 3 people operation and you don't think that Daniel Patterson knows exactly what Ryan Elliott is doing? :doh:

 

 

 

You forgot the dogs. I'll repeat this again for the uniformed. Before I found these boards I submitted six books to them. They came back with dog hairs in the slabs. Must have happened in the enscapulation room.

[Hado]

 

Though whenever I send parcels I'm sure there's cat hair in the tape

[Jaydogrules]

Illegal? Probably. Actionable civilly? Definitely. Fact of the matter is, if the company's "fraud" was this rampant, they would have at least been sued out of existence a long time ago. I'm not so sure the company's owner "knows" his employees slab and sell their own books. I don't keep tabs on my employees' dealings 24/7, and I doubt most employers do. And to presume that employees of CGC have not done the same thing is a bit naïve in my opinion regardless. Ultimately, the market will decide the value of the book anyway, and again, if a company were so out of control and scandalous it most likely would have come under some kind of federal investigation by now or sued into bankruptcy.

 

PGX is, at best, a 3 people operation and you don't think that Daniel Patterson knows exactly what Ryan Elliott is doing? :doh:

 

This is the second time you've made the claim about CGC employees slabbing & selling their own books - care to back that statement up with some proof?

 

I don't know what the owner of PGX knows, and neither does anyone else on here. And I didn't say I "knew" of CGC employees selling books they have slabbed and graded, what I "said" was, that you would be naïve to not assume that some of them have not done the same at some point. Not that it matters, since the market will ultimately determine what a book is "worth", anyway.

 

What's with this vitriolic obsession you have with PGX anyway ? If you don't want to use them, don't use them. If you don't want to buy their books slabbed, don't buy them. Just don't give yourself an aneurysm over the fact that all of the propaganda being hurled around on here has yet to put them out of business. Obviously there are enough other people who find value in their service to keep them going. But I guess you would prefer a monopoly so you can pay $500 to get every book slabbed.

 

-J.

[mschmidt]

Illegal? Probably. Actionable civilly? Definitely. Fact of the matter is, if the company's "fraud" was this rampant, they would have at least been sued out of existence a long time ago. I'm not so sure the company's owner "knows" his employees slab and sell their own books. I don't keep tabs on my employees' dealings 24/7, and I doubt most employers do. And to presume that employees of CGC have not done the same thing is a bit naïve in my opinion regardless. Ultimately, the market will decide the value of the book anyway, and again, if a company were so out of control and scandalous it most likely would have come under some kind of federal investigation by now or sued into bankruptcy.

 

PGX is, at best, a 3 people operation and you don't think that Daniel Patterson knows exactly what Ryan Elliott is doing? :doh:

 

This is the second time you've made the claim about CGC employees slabbing & selling their own books - care to back that statement up with some proof?

 

I don't know what the owner of PGX knows, and neither does anyone else on here. And I didn't say I "knew" of CGC employees selling books they have slabbed and graded, what I "said" was, that you would be naïve to not assume that some of them have not done the same at some point. Not that it matters, since the market will ultimately determine what a book is "worth", anyway.

 

What's with this vitriolic obsession you have with PGX anyway ? If you don't want to use them, don't use them. If you don't want to buy their books slabbed, don't buy them. Just don't give yourself an aneurysm over the fact that all of the propaganda being hurled around on here has yet to put them out of business. Obviously there are enough other people who find value in their service to keep them going. But I guess you would prefer a monopoly so you can pay $500 to get a book slabbed.

 

-J.

 

Even more nonsense ::

 

What I would prefer is a reputable competitor in the grading market - which PGX isn't, no matter how much you want them to be.

 

If you want to send books to PGX, knock yourself out, but pretending that the scandals, scams and the general unethical behavior coming from that particular garage-based operation is somehow just propaganda is ridiculous and dishonest. It's like that which keeps them in business when, by all reasonable accounts, Elliott & Patterson should have been drummed out of the comic book collecting world long ago.

 

So ... please ... knock it off with the PGX shilling :thumbsup:

[Griff]

Here is another great example. sadly it took me less than 3 mins to find this.

 

here is a stock photo of Worlds Finest Comics #28

 

 

and here is a current Ebay sale for that book GRADED BY PGX with ZERO NOTES ON TRIM and restoration

 

 

 

To me the bottom of this book has clearly been trimmed. and it was graded in 2008 when they were supposedly starting to get better.

 

I'm not a grading expert but I don't think I am wrong about this book being trimmed